'23 S2S Limp Mode and More after 2 months storage - any ideas?

[zich6]

I haven't started my '23 S2S for over a month, but it's been in a garage on a charger, with no problems when I last shut it down. When I started it today to get it on a trailer for travel, it started, but I got a limp mode with the yellow engine light and a transmission fault. In neutral or in gear the throttle doesn't work. I called my dealer, and they had no idea what the issue is and told me to bring it in. Not too easy when it won't move. Any idea what this could be and how to get it rolling?

 

[zich6]

Update: I disconnected the battery for 5 minutes, reconnected and no change. I checked under the right-side top panel and no sign of rodent damage.

 

[Peter Aawen]

The post 2020 Spyders, and especially those post COVID units, are known to suffer from dodgy battery issues causing pretty much what you've described. It seems that BRP either ran into supply issues or cheaped out on the batteries and installed an inferior product with only a 6-month warranty, and MANY Owners here have reported similar failures and problems that end up being failed batteries! :cus:

So I'd strongly suggest that BEFORE you do anything else, you load test and check your battery - it's a simple test, and it might just save you a lot of trouble if you do it FIRST, regardless of whatever else you might think it could be, as many Spyder Owners have discovered that these things are VERY power hungry in a way no other motorcycle we've collectively experienced is! And beware, if it load-tests at anything under 12 volts at any stage, but especially during starting, then the battery is basically toast!! If you don't have access to a battery load tester/can't readily get the battery out and take it to a battery shop (ie, NOT a BRP dealer!) then even just watching the voltage levels on a multi-meter, checking for better than 12 volts after the Spyder's sat overnight/before doing anything; with the ignition on but before starting; actually during the cranking phase of starting; and after the engine has started running can be very enlightening! (If you do the latter multi-meter testing, post those 4 values/readings up here. ) Seeing anything less than 12 volts at any of those 4 stages means that your Spyder's computers will not have enough green steam/voltage to do everything they need to do, and you'll get Limp Mode, VSS Faults, Transmission Faults, &/or possibly even a complete failure of the dash to work at all!!

So with VSS & other faults codes, ALWAYS CHECK &/or REPLACE YOUR BATTERY as necessary FIRST! And if you do get a new battery, then make sure you get one with at least 350 CCA & 21 A/hr output - more is better, less won't work for long if at all, and the post '20 OEM Batteries are substantially less!! :lecturef_smilie:

If you do get a new battery, you also need to make sure that it is prepared properly and charged properly BEFORE installation - even if the retailer says they did all that and it's OK to install immediately; cos if the battery hasn't taken more than 12 hours to prepare before you picked it up, then there's a good chance it'll just have a light surface charge; and if that's the case and it's installed and used immediately, it will likely fail sooner rather than lasting the years that it should!! New batteries, especially AGM batteries like those most commonly used in motorcycles and our Spyders, need time for the 'acid' to fully permeate the battery after being added to the 'glass mats', and then they need at least 8 hours of proper 2-amp charging!! Failure to do this will see you needing a new battery again much sooner than expected!!

That said, I do hope you didn't actually leave your Spyder "...in a garage on a charger..." for a month, cos that WILL kill a battery!! Batteries don't like being over-charged, and many 'not-smart' chargers &/or battery tenders just don't know when to stop, so you shouldn't leave your battery connected to one of them for more than 12 hours at a time, or you'll likely over-charge &/or otherwise kill your battery! :banghead:

That's not quite the case with 'Smart-chargers/battery maintainers', which are smart enough to shut down once full charge has been reached, and in the case of maintainers, may even start off a maintenance/de-sulphation cycle that actively monitors the battery voltage, regularly applying a load &/or de-sulphation cycle, and charging only when necessary. But even with those, while it won't kill the battery as surely as a 'switch on/never switch off charger/tender', it's still not best for the battery to leave them connected for months on end, as that will shorten the battery's overall life potential - but at least they'll usually start & run OK after a few months of storage! :thumbup:

So all up, I wouldn't be racing to get your Spyder to a dealer ASAP - check your battery FIRST, and if it's dead & you've owned your Spyder for more than 6 months, you really don't want another dodgy 'less capable/reliable' off their shelf BRP replacement battery anyway, do you?!

 

[zich6]

Thanks, but it's not the OEM battery that I had to replace 11 months ago. I replaced it with a Anti Gravity ATX-12-HD Lithium Ion that has been rock solid with no problems. As I mentioned, the S2S starts fine, just like it always has. But, I should have clarified the charger I use is a CTEK battery maintainer/trickle charger that is designed for long term storage. No disrespect intended, but if the S2S starts very strong, do you still think it's the battery?

 

[Pantera]

Please keep us updated on the outcome

 

[zich6]

Please keep us updated on the outcome

I will as the issue and fix may be applicable to others. I have roadside assistance coming to get it on the trailer. Unless someone has something I can do to get it moving, I'm trailering it to a dealer.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks, but it's not the OEM battery that I had to replace 11 months ago. I replaced it with a Anti Gravity ATX-12-HD Lithium Ion that has been rock solid with no problems. As I mentioned, the S2S starts fine, just like it always has. But, I should have clarified the charger I use is a CTEK battery maintainer/trickle charger that is designed for long term storage. No disrespect intended, but if the S2S starts very strong, do you still think it's the battery?

Didn't see any disrespect there at all :thumbup: But the extra info you provided is handy stuff to know and it does certainly cast a slightly different light on things, altho it still doesn't exclude the battery being the problem - so I would still be checking that it's REALLY NOT just the battery FIRST!! :lecturef_smilie:

These 'cascading warnings/modes' issues ARE a classic sign of battery/power issues, even if the engine does start! It's not that the engine doesn't have enough green steam to start, they'll usually do that on as little as 10.5 volts; the modes/warnings/codes etc usually occur because all the computers don't have enough juice to do their things properly at the same time as cranking the starter, so they send warnings/trigger limp modes etc! That means that the engine actually starting and then all these issues appearing only makes it MORE LIKELY that it's a battery &/or power problem! Sure, it's not definite, there have been a few other problems (mainly dash/cluster problems) identified as causing much the same issues; but the majority of members who've reported similar problems to those you describe have ended up identifying their issues as being caused by battery/power problem - especially on post-COVID Spyders! :shocked:

Besides, once your Spyder gets to a dealer, you're pretty much stuck for however long it takes them to work it out, and even if it's just the battery, there's a pretty good chance that they'll either blame your 'non-OEM battery' for any issues; &/or that you end up with one of the crappy sub-standard OEM batteries as a replacement! :gaah:

Have you done that battery load test, or at least watched the voltage with a multi-meter - if not, I'd strongly recommend you do that BEFORE your Spyder gets hauled away and you're stuck with waiting for whatever outcome the dealer eventually comes up with, AND with their resolution... whatever it might be and however many tries it might take them before they're finally successful in resolving it - or not!! :yikes: Don't laugh, it has happened - as have dealers blaming all sorts of other things and trying to fix those unsuccessfully, but still at the member's expense of course, before finally admitting that it juuust might be the battery; swapping that out, and by doing so, finally fixing all the mode/warning issues! :cus:

So if you do that testing mentioned, maybe even disconnect the installed battery and connect up another 'known good' battery instead, just to see what happens then, you juuust might save yourself a whole lot of angst &/or expense for what could be as little as 10 minutes work, or maybe an hour if you try connecting up another battery! :thumbup:

What've you got to lose?? Go on, DO IT!! It can't hurt, and it juuuust might mean you can go riding today after all! hyea:




Ps: Please use S2S to refer to your Sea to Sky - STS were available from 2010 until 2016 or so and many are still in use and referenced here, so you referring to your Sea to Sky as an STS can be quite confusing, especially since the majority of Sea to Sky owners here have readily adopted the S2S label.

 

[zich6]

Volts are 14.1. I got it on the trailer with roadside assistance. Since it doesn't appear to be the battery, I'm trailering it to Pensacola Powersports. Please let me know if you can identify any other issues. Thanks for your help.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Volts are 14.1. I got it on the trailer with roadside assistance. Since it doesn't appear to be the battery, I'm trailering it to Pensacola Powersports. Please let me know if you can identify any other issues. Thanks for your help.

Is that the battery voltage before turning the ignition On? Before cranking? During cranking? Or after cranking?? :dontknow:

As I mentioned earlier, if you're not using an actual load tester, just a multi-meter, then you really need to check (and maybe tell us??) what the battery voltage reading is:

1. before doing anything to your Spyder for the day;
2. with the ignition ON, but before attempting to start;
3. while you're actually cranking the motor; and
4. after the motor starts

:thumbup:

 

[zich6]

14.1 with ignition on. 14 while cranking. 14.1 after engine start.

 

[Dakotaz]

Is your battery charger the proper one for lithium battery? Voltage sounds like it is but I believe the lithium requires a non-standard charger. CTEK battery maintainer/trickle charger that is designed for long term storage

 

[zich6]

Is your battery charger the proper one for lithium battery? Voltage sounds like it is but I believe the lithium requires a non-standard charger. CTEK battery maintainer/trickle charger that is designed for long term storage

Yes, and again it starts strong. Frankly, I'm not a young man and have owned over 50 vehicles, including many motorcycles. This is the first time someone suggested I have a battery issue when the vehicle started strongly. To me, if it is the battery, it's a serious flaw in the S2S design.

 

[BajaRon]

Yes, and again it starts strong. Frankly, I'm not a young man and have owned over 50 vehicles, including many motorcycles. This is the first time someone suggested I have a battery issue when the vehicle started strongly. To me, if it is the battery, it's a serious flaw in the S2S design.

If it starts strong, then a battery issue is unlikely. Though there is more to a battery than voltage. Amps are also extremely important. Still, it's amps at proper voltage that cranks the engine. And if it turns over well and starts quickly, then I think you are safe to look elsewhere.

Could be nothing more than a wonky Gear Position Sensor. Rodents are also a possibility. Hopefully not but without a thorough inspection, this is hard to rule out. They can attack in very small spaces. And they have an affinity for wiring, the little devils. Your dealer should be able to sort this is short order. And, as the rest have mentioned, an explanation is eagerly awaited!

 

[zich6]

I'm mistaken, the charger/maintainer is a NOCO 3500 Genius that as you can see, handles Lithium Ion batteries. IMHO, NOCO makes the best chargers/maintainers.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Not saying it's your problem, but many reports on the KTM 1190/1290's using Anti Gravity batteries having weird quirks and errors.......For this reason I just went back with a Yuasa YTZ battery as I didn't want issues. I have recently installed a Noco Battery in my Husky 701 with good luck, but it also doesn't have all the modules that our Spyders and My KTM has.

My Wife's Spyder is due for a battery and I'll be following this thread. My first thought for hers is to install a Noco as many here have with good luck? We have noticed the slow starting as the weather has cooled off and she did see an speed sensor error message mid trip last month in the middle of a ride but haven't seen it since......wondering if they are possibly related?

 

[zich6]

Arrived at Gulf Shores, Al. after trailering 2,500 miles. I'm trailering to Pensacola Motorsports on Saturday. I'll post with results. Thanks all.

 

[zich6]

Update: drove two hours round trip to Pensacola Motorsports only to have them tell me 2 techs didn't show up, so I had to leave it and they couldn't get to it until Tuesday. Anyone have experience with Pensacola Motorsports?

 

[zich6]

Update: PM didn't get to it today, but did say BRP stated that there is no warranty because the S2S was purchased in Canada. I purchased in 5/23/23 from Westside Motorsports, Spokane, Washington and have the records to prove it. This is getting curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Woodaddict]

Thats odd. Just had a guy username Johnboy74 found out his warranty was wacky. BRP told him Spyder was first sold to non-USA country first, then him. I need to look again and see if yours and his post are in Washington...

Looked it up, his home state is Arizona, so I doubt he bought from your dealer.

 

[zich6]

Thats odd. Just had a guy username Johnboy74 found out his warranty was wacky. BRP told him Spyder was first sold to non-USA country first, then him. I need to look again and see if yours and his post are in Washington...

Looked it up, his home state is Arizona, so I doubt he bought from your dealer.

I bought from an authorized dealer in Spokane with 4 miles on the odometer. Plus, the Buyers Order stipulates "new." I hope this is an honest mistake, not an attempt to skate on the warranty as the vehicle is a '23 purchased less than 18 months ago. Thanks.