2013 RT won't run - Need help figuring out this fuel sender setting?

[RUKNOT]

So one of my buddies just bought a 2013 CAN-AM RT Limited from a women that had it from her husband. he just asked me to check out a problem where the bike would shut off on low rpms and would not start back up unless you turn the key to off and on position again. I decided to check the fuel, sparkplugs and discovered this. I have no clue what they did to the bike, but the airbox is swapped for the direct air intake, the spark plug wires are swapped. There is a GlowShift Digital Wideband Air Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit that doesn't work, a belt stabilizer and a bunch more minor stuff done to it.
So I realized that it must be tuned and connected BUDS. No errors, no occurred, nothing. I started poking around because I couldn't find the Power commander and found this setting. Haven't seen it on any other Can-Am before, and this looks like its what I'm looking for. Anyone knows what it is? Anyone knows what anything is?

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

So one of my buddies just bought a 2013 CAN-AM RT Limited from a women that had it from her husband. he just asked me to check out a problem where the bike would shut off on low rpms and would not start back up unless you turn the key to off and on position again. I decided to check the fuel, sparkplugs and discovered this. I have no clue what they did to the bike, but the airbox is swapped for the direct air intake, the spark plug wires are swapped. There is a GlowShift Digital Wideband Air Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit that doesn't work, a belt stabilizer and a bunch more minor stuff done to it.
So I realized that it must be tuned and connected BUDS. No errors, no occurred, nothing. I started poking around because I couldn't find the Power commander and found this setting. Haven't seen it on any other Can-Am before, and this looks like its what I'm looking for. Anyone knows what it is? Anyone knows what anything is?

Looks like you have a MegaTech License? I've only seen that page on a MY 2013 and 2014 ST. Look at your Demo files that came with BUDS - with your MPI plugged into the computer so you have the correct privileges - and check out the 2013 ST Demo File. All that page does is allow you to calibrate the fuel gauge sender, tach and speedo. Those numbers correspond to the fuel gauge sender output for the Low Fuel Light, and each bar on the digital display fuel gauge. Those numbers look correct for a 2013 and are the same as the DEMO file numbers. That's not the cause of your engine issue.

Back to the engine - are you saying it won't idle at all, or will it start and idle for a period of time and then shutdown? If it runs for a period of time just fine, and then turns off, time it. See if the time that it runs is consistently 2 minutes. Turning the key off and back on will also reset the fuel pump prime timer. The one where the pump runs for about 10 seconds and then turns off. Could be a fuel filter or fuel pressure regulator issue. The 2013 recall did re-work the fuel system. Those are just off the top of my head.

The airbox mod is fine, but needs a new filter. Many of us, including me run that mod. After market plug wires from Ron are OK, too. If you think it has a Power Commander, check under the seat. As part of your troubleshooting, you would want to check out what they did with the O2 sensors and if they installed a wide band sensor or somehow tapped into the stock Lambda sensors. That would be something I would return to a stock configuration and even disconnect the Power Commander if it actually has one.

Good Luck. No good deed goes un-punished.

P.S. Your friend could benefit from a shop manual. 25 bucks. One place to get one…

https://canammanuals.com/product/20...air-and-maintenance-manual-master-collection/

 

[RUKNOT]

Looks like you have a MegaTech License? I've only seen that page on a MY 2013 and 2014 ST. Look at your Demo files that came with BUDS - with your MPI plugged into the computer so you have the correct privileges - and check out the 2013 ST Demo File. All that page does is allow you to calibrate the fuel gauge sender, tach and speedo. Those numbers correspond to the fuel gauge sender output for the Low Fuel Light, and each bar on the digital display fuel gauge. Those numbers look correct for a 2013 and are the same as the DEMO file numbers. That's not the cause of your engine issue.

Back to the engine - are you saying it won't idle at all, or will it start and idle for a period of time and then shutdown? If it runs for a period of time just fine, and then turns off, time it. See if the time that it runs is consistently 2 minutes. Turning the key off and back on will also reset the fuel pump prime timer. The one where the pump runs for about 10 seconds and then turns off. Could be a fuel filter or fuel pressure regulator issue. The 2013 recall did re-work the fuel system. Those are just off the top of my head.

The airbox mod is fine, but needs a new filter. Many of us, including me run that mod. After market plug wires from Ron are OK, too. If you think it has a Power Commander, check under the seat. As part of your troubleshooting, you would want to check out what they did with the O2 sensors and if they installed a wide band sensor or somehow tapped into the stock Lambda sensors. That would be something I would return to a stock configuration and even disconnect the Power Commander if it actually has one.

Good Luck. No good deed goes un-punished.

P.S. Your friend could benefit from a shop manual. 25 bucks. One place to get one…

https://canammanuals.com/product/20...air-and-maintenance-manual-master-collection/

Good morning! Thanks for a fast reply. I didn't find the power commander. there was a wire going to the 02 sensor which went to this box which i assume is the wideband controller. The bike ran first try 1:47 seconds, second try 1:59 seconds on second try. No throttle applied. Ill check if they did the recall today.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Good morning! Thanks for a fast reply. I didn't find the power commander. there was a wire going to the 02 sensor which went to this box which i assume is the wideband controller. The bike ran first try 1:47 seconds, second try 1:59 seconds on second try. No throttle applied. Ill check if they did the recall today.

I think that the whole Wideband thing is going to be a red herring for you. Without a tuner, the AFR meter is just indication only. Wouldn't affect operation. But if it was me, I’d disconnect everything. The reason I was curious about 2 minutes is that, if there was a previous goof up with programming keys, the machine will shut itself off after 2 minutes. If you can keep it running beyond that just by applying some more throttle, then it won't be related to that.

So, if you CAN keep it running, hook up your BUDS to the machine and go to the Monitoring tab for the ECM. Start up the machine and watch the two Oxygen Sensor Status boxes. Make sure that they both shift from Heating to Active. That would take about 4 - 5 minutes. If one of them shows a failure, then replace it. If that's all ok, then I would go back to the fuel system - delivery, pressure, cleanliness, etc - and check your vacuum hoses...run some Seafoam through it...all of the usual 998 things. It’s all here in the forum. Google is your friend. Good Luck.

 

[RUKNOT]

View attachment 200971View attachment 200972View attachment 200973

 

[RUKNOT]

Now that you mention the key situation, I did install a new key system with new DESS. After each start it shows "New Key"

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, you sure know how to bury the lead. A new DESS automatically comes up into programming mode without you needing a red master key. But, you always, always, always have to program two keys. Now you're in a loop. It's in programming mode and wants to program another key. You don't need to start it to do that but you need to get both keys into the switch while staying in programming mode. I assume you have two keys?

The second key must be programmed within 2 minutes. Otherwise, the D.E.S.S. module will remain in programming mode and the following conditions will occur:
– Engine will start, then stop after 2 minutes.
– When the ignition is turned OFF, current drain will be higher than usual and the battery will completely discharge within 1 - 2 weeks if the
vehicle is not used.

You can try this but I can't guarantee anything since the initial process was interrupted. New Key and Next Key mean the same thing. And as soon as you get New Key, don't delay. Proceed right away.

After installation of a new D.E.S.S. module (with or without a new ignition switch), the module will automatically go into programming mode when the ignition switch is first turned ON.
NOTE: No master key is required.
To program the ignition keys into the new D.E.S.S.
module, carry out the following steps:
1.Insert 1st key to program into the ignition switch.
2. Turn the ignition key to ON.
3. Wait until cluster displays NEXT KEY.
4. Turn ignition switch to OFF.
5. Remove key.
6. Insert the 2nd key to program.
7. Turn ignition switch to ON.
8. Wait until cluster displays SUCCESS.
9. Turn ignition switch to OFF.
10. Remove key.

Key programming procedure is complete.
Start engine and let run for more than 2 minutes. If engine does not stop on its own after 2 minutes, programming mode is complete.

 

[RUKNOT]

Well, you sure know how to bury the lead. A new DESS automatically comes up into programming mode without you needing a red master key. But, you always, always, always have to program two keys. Now you're in a loop. It's in programming mode and wants to program another key. You don't need to start it to do that but you need to get both keys into the switch while staying in programming mode. I assume you have two keys?

The second key must be programmed within 2 minutes. Otherwise, the D.E.S.S. module will remain in programming mode and the following conditions will occur:
– Engine will start, then stop after 2 minutes.
– When the ignition is turned OFF, current drain will be higher than usual and the battery will completely discharge within 1 - 2 weeks if the
vehicle is not used.

You can try this but I can't guarantee anything since the initial process was interrupted. New Key and Next Key mean the same thing. And as soon as you get New Key, don't delay. Proceed right away.

After installation of a new D.E.S.S. module (with or without a new ignition switch), the module will automatically go into programming mode when the ignition switch is first turned ON.
NOTE: No master key is required.
To program the ignition keys into the new D.E.S.S.
module, carry out the following steps:
1.Insert 1st key to program into the ignition switch.
2. Turn the ignition key to ON.
3. Wait until cluster displays NEXT KEY.
4. Turn ignition switch to OFF.
5. Remove key.
6. Insert the 2nd key to program.
7. Turn ignition switch to ON.
8. Wait until cluster displays SUCCESS.
9. Turn ignition switch to OFF.
10. Remove key.

Key programming procedure is complete.
Start engine and let run for more than 2 minutes. If engine does not stop on its own after 2 minutes, programming mode is complete.

Wow, now I feel stupid. Just did that. It didn't say new key, but after doing both keys. it works past 2 minutes now. Should I still recommend swap the 02 sensors back to stock?
Thank you very much!

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

I couldn't tell if that picture was a third, wide band sensor that was installed in a new bung, or one of the original ones. You'll have two, stock O2 sensors. The front one is accessed on the left hand side on the front cylinder header pipe, and the rear one is accessed from the right side, on the rear cylinder header pipe. It's in between the rear cylinder and the gas tank. I would connect those two O2 sensors to their original wire harness connectors so that they do what they are designed to do. Remove any connections to that meter, if any, that involved the stock sensors. If that is a third wide band sensor, I'd just remove all of that other stuff associated with it, and abandon the sensor in place in order to plug the bung. Tell your buddy to find another instrument to put in his dash.

And after that, hook up BUDS as explained above and ensure that the two O2 sensors come Active after the engine has been running for a few minutes.

 

[Knizar]

Hats OFF 2, "Snowbelt Spyder" :2thumbs::firstplace::cheers: You KNOW your way around problems on these machines! I will now be following any of your future posts. :thumbup: Bill

 

[sledge]

Hats OFF 2, "Snowbelt Spyder" :2thumbs::firstplace::cheers: You KNOW your way around problems on these machines! I will now be following any of your future posts. :thumbup: Bill

and me too........ really good learning , thank you both.