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Brake Failer Reset Frustration!!!

Gwolf said:
That should fix the starter problem. Might be wise to test that D2 diode while you got it open. It should be right by the solenoid. Test procedures are in the manual starter repair section. If the diode is allowing reverse current or two way current it will damage the system.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Solenoid was closed, thats why the starter motor was running. He disconnected both wires and then reattached both. I would have left the heavy wire that went to the motor disconnected and checked for 12v on the thinner wire that should be coming from the the wiring harness. If that has power, that explains why the solenoid was closed. If it doesn't, then the solenoid is bad.

Now if that wire has power, then you need to keep going back to see what is energizing it. Somebody else mentioned a starter relay. I'm at work and cant check my bike to verify if there is one. That would be like a relay to fire a relay ;redundant. I've looked online, but cant find a wiring diagram. Somebody else that has a service manual can chime in about that.
 
Eviltwin said:
Maybe. Solenoid was closed, thats why the starter motor was running. He disconnected both wires and then reattached both. I would have left the heavy wire that went to the motor disconnected and checked for 12v on the thinner wire that should be coming from the the wiring harness. If that has power, that explains why the solenoid was closed. If it doesn't, then the solenoid is bad.

Now if that wire has power, then you need to keep going back to see what is energizing it. Somebody else mentioned a starter relay. I'm at work and cant check my bike to verify if there is one. That would be like a relay to fire a relay ;redundant. I've looked online, but cant find a wiring diagram. Somebody else that has a service manual can chime in about that.
Click to expand...



There is a starter enable circuit that must be energized before the the solenoid can engage (if it was working properly), but it comes off the ecm and all the mode button, brake light switch, kill switch, and other safety switches must be set before it can be enabled. The starter enable circuit should not be energized if the key is off, foot not on brake, kill switch set to off, or any of the other factors not set correctly before starting. In order for that to be part of the problem, all the safety switches would have to be malfunctioning and the starter button stuck. However, only the D2 diode and solenoid are in the end loop of that circuit and if the starter solenoid is stuck closed it would energize the starter with the key off and none of the conditions for a start being met.
 
Is there a way to try and unstick solenoid? Everything was running perfect before unhooking neg wire..I left both red wires unattached waiting for new solenoid to be delivered
 
Gwolf said:
There is a starter enable circuit that must be energized before the the solenoid can engage (if it was working properly), but it comes off the ecm and all the mode button, brake light switch, kill switch, and other safety switches must be set before it can be enabled. The starter enable circuit should not be energized if the key is off, foot not on brake, kill switch set to off, or any of the other factors not set correctly before starting. In order for that to be part of the problem, all the safety switches would have to be malfunctioning and the starter button stuck. However, only the D2 diode and solenoid are in the end loop of that circuit and if the starter solenoid is stuck closed it would energize the starter with the key off and none of the conditions for a start being met.
Click to expand...

Sounds logical.

Wilpir, do you have a meter or test light to verify voltages on these wires? I wouldnt think a solenoid would stick, but who knows what happened when you were disconnecting the battery. More likely the diode that Gwolf mentioned could have shorted.

If you touch the thinner wire to the terminal, do you hear a click from the solenoid?
 
wilpir said:
Is there a way to try and unstick solenoid? Everything was running perfect before unhooking neg wire..I left both red wires unattached waiting for new solenoid to be delivered
Click to expand...

Put it on a concrete surface and smash it with a 12 pound sledge hammer.
 
Eviltwin said:
Sounds logical.

Wilpir, do you have a meter or test light to verify voltages on these wires? I wouldnt think a solenoid would stick, but who knows what happened when you were disconnecting the battery. More likely the diode that Gwolf mentioned could have shorted.

If you touch the thinner wire to the terminal, do you hear a click from the solenoid?
Click to expand...

No click...
 
wilpir said:
I have a multimeter where to test? red lead to red wire black lead to ground or neg battery terminal?
Click to expand...

Engine is ground. Connect the battery back in the circuit. Dont connect the big wire to the solenoid. Check for 12v on the signal wire to the solenoid. Should be 0 volts give or take. If it's 12v, then its keeping the solenoid engaged. If not, then the solenoid itself is stuck closed.
 
So in laymans terms ...don't put back any of the 2 red wires and check small red wire for voltage... ground black multi to frame of bike?
 
wilpir said:
So in laymans terms ...don't put back any of the 2 red wires and check small red wire for voltage... ground black multi to frame of bike?
Click to expand...


You are not trying to find out what power is on the solenoid. It is like a heavy duty switch for the large cable from the battery to the starter. What you are trying to find out is if the two large posts, which would normally have the heavy cable attached to them, are opening and closing. In order to make the switch open and close the power is 'applied to/removed from' the smaller wires. To test that you measure the continuity across the two large posts. No power to the small wires, should mean no continuity measured across the large posts. Power applied to the small wires, should mean there is now continuity measured across the large posts. You should hear a definite click when it cycles. There is no reason to have either of the heavy wires hooked to the solenoid. You are only trying to determine if it is opening and closing. When the solenoid is wired to the starter and in the circuit, then it is acting as a switch and the starter case is grounded. Having the starter disconnected (heavy wires not connected to solenoid) will let you test the solenoid without danger of damaging the starter gears or burning up the wiring.

If you find that there is always an open circuit across the two large posts (not very likely), then test the voltage of the small wires.

If you find that there is always continuity from large post to large post, no matter if voltage is applied to the smaller wires or not, that means the solenoid is not functioning as a switch. It is stuck closed and is always a dead short leading from the battery to the starter.

The solenoid points inside the case could have become welded. If that is the case the solenoid is broken and must be replaced. It is pointless to attempt to get it working again. Even if you could break it loose and get it to open and close, the contact points would still be severely pitted and it would not be 100%. There is also a spring inside the case which should open the points when no power is on the electromagnet. If the spring is broken the solenoid is worthless. The case is sealed. The parts inside the case are not repairable. Throw it away and put a new one on.

solenoid.jpg
 
That is an excellent diagram. Hope the OP understands how it works. I'm not sure how much more layman I could make the explanation.
 
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