1330 Performance Upgrades

[fatenhappy]

$350.00 for 25 HP is a bargain compared to anything else in today's market...I'll be going with this ECM update, and hopefully the 89 T. rear sprocket by spring...

Thank You Dennis for the updated info...

larryd

Have to totally agree ! ... If you do the math that's a whopping 22% increase with a far more usable power band ... Don't forget we are talking only a motorcycles weight here, not that of a motor car. Power to weight ratio therefore is substantial. IMO its excellent value for money and a great start. Lots of people are happy to shell out the same sort of money on a cat delete alone which after fitting has been reported on here to be somewhere between about 5 to 8% increase if you are lucky and mostly to the middle of the power band.


I will also be paying return air freight internationally from Australia for my F3's remapping, and still reckon its good value compared to a Commander or other system at a grand and then still heading north .....

 

[fatenhappy]

Even a bargain is only a bargain when it has been tried and proven. I am never one to have to (or want to) be the first guy on the block to try something.
That seems to be the norm around here. That is why you have people paying $30k+ for a spyder that I will pick up in 4-5 months from a dealer for $24k or less. I am patient and will wait until something is proven, or a bargain, and then spend my money.
But to each their own.

Got to go down the other route here ... For quite some time, even before getting my latest 2017 F3-T, I'd been scratching my head as to why BRP don't provide something anything in a true performance package for their Spyder range. Since starting, the Daytona 500 is partially there, but still far way off the mark. Its exactly the same as saying you could buy a 6 cylinder mustang years ago or go to the opposite end of the scale for the Shelby 'Mach' series ... (Only question in those days was, how deep are your pockets?) But in any case it came back to user pays ...

For months and months at that time .... I had been researching building a set of full length 3:1 length tuned headers / extractors, complete with an O2 sensor port for the 1330 triple. After all headers and length tuned extractors have been around almost as long as I have in one form or another for both cars and bikes. Its not rocket science ... stuff as much clean air and fuel in one side of an engine almost as fast as you can, then get rid of all those burnt gasses in the same manner out the opposite side (usually) ... again, just as fast as you can. Tweak, tune, squeeze, push and pull all whilst trying to make the best power and economy whilst endeavouring to minimalize 'heat' ...

Then all of a sudden, BRP dropped the carrot in with the bunnies in 2016 with the unveiling of their 150hp Concept Bike. However just as quickly (IMO), they turned their backs, dropped the ball and walked away. (and yes I now know in hindsight, it was only ever to be built as a promotional tool ..) When I first saw that I thought yehaaa, here we go, this is more like it.

Then I spotted 'that' exhaust ..... If you have a real close look at some of those pictures of the bike, you will see where BRP had Akropovic produce a complete set of straight through triple pipes .... (very, very close to the basics of what I am talking about here, but mine would be a 3:1 again with that O2 sensor port, so they could be made 'street legal' or at least 'semi' street legal ..) To this day almost 2 years later, to my knowledge there is still nothing about any where 'world wide' for better exhaust extraction for these frames and so I am still on the trail ...

My exact point is ... Why not? I am totally with Poseidon with his view point. Like him I have searched and searched and there is very, little aftermarket stuff out there at all for the Spyder owners to play and tweak .... I've been riding bikes on the street since I was probably 15 or so and I'm now 66. We used to alter and change and modify both bikes and cars ... 'hot' them up and experiment mostly I reckon so we could say 'yep I did that' as it was a good feeling to own that ride ... Still scratching my head just in this regard as headers and length tuned extractors have been around on bikes well ... just about as ling as I have, but again not for these ...

I think as long as there are engines about, some will want to invent, reinvent, tweak, squeeze and tune them to perfection. If not why did Henry ever invent his Ford?

 

[fatenhappy]

Hi,
I agree with some of the previous "speakers", I came from the quad/ATV community before I bought my first Spyder and there it was a natural thing to tune it in every possible way, air filter, exhaust and software
In the Spyder community on the other hand there is no one even talking about tuning and no one seem to do it, strange.....

Powercommander 5 is available for Spyder but not for all year models, and I used that together with autotune on my Yamaha Raptor 700 which gave quite a lot extra power.

There is also a swedish company called Vtech/Maptun which has specialized in upgrades for "power sport" vehicles lika snowmobiles (Skidoo), water crafts (Seadoo) and also Spyder´s and ATV´s.
When I talked to them they told me they have sold a lot of Spyder software upgrades especially to the US.

Their software stage 2 together with muffler replacement pipe (cat delete) gives a raise from 115 hp to 140 hp

https://www.maptunpowersports.com/tu...er-f3-s-115-hp

Its now very late March 2018 and their site is still saying in development for the stage 2 for my F3-T ... I fired them off an email querying where things are up to on this so we will see what eventuates ... Having said that I would always rather 'wait' a while for the smoke to clear as inevitably there will be updates as with any new electronics release ...

 

[fatenhappy]

Reading a real lot on here about cutting and splicing sensors ... For my 10 cents worth having been all my life in electronics both ground and aircraft related (with both civil and military) all over the world ... I would tread very lightly with wanting too just cut and splice anything without a workshop diagram and explanation of what's for what ... So to that regard I went off to my F3-T full workshop manual and had a squiz at the CAN Buss system ... H'mmm, I'll attach it for you here ... as it turns out its not ..."just a pair of twisted wires with a basic digital system" and nor is any other closed Buss communication system. These type of Buss systems often employ 'PWM' Pulse Width Modulation which will change the binary State from a 1 to a 0 or visa versa or in our talk a yes to a no or again visa versa .... be careful .... enjoy ....

 

[fatenhappy]

Sean,
I've hear a just a few mods, not sure about the 1300's though. You can obviously change the air intake, exhaust, cat delete. In the earlier days some even played around with a juice box and PCV, not sure if it was an auto tune. But, whenever someone tried to find out the "actual" gains I never have read here that someone was able to Dyno to verify this Hp/Tq gains. So even with the ECU flash, which seems to be the current wave for increasing "hp/tq" until there is an actual way to Dyno, we wont know what the actual "performance" gains are.

Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.

But they can be dyno' ... BUT, you have to have the spec maintenance computer and access to the BRP 'bench mode' diagnostics page ... Plug the thing in and hook the PC up the diagnostics, ... scroll down until you come to 'Turn Speed Sensors OFF' and there you go ... all three sensors are isolated and dyno runs are achievable

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

But they can be dyno' ... BUT, you have to have the spec maintenance computer and access to the BRP 'bench mode' diagnostics page ... Plug the thing in and hook the PC up the diagnostics, ... scroll down until you come to 'Turn Speed Sensors OFF' and there you go ... all three sensors are isolated and dyno runs are achievable

This information is correct with a twist. The RT & F3 base will default back out of that mode if the handle bars turn more than 3 degrees while on the dyno.
The latest F3S can be put into that mode through the dash options but is still sensitive to the 3 degree handle bar movement.
The Daytona can be put into the mode through a dash option plus you can turn the handle bars all you want.
I have two available service shops with dynos and neither will take the risk trying to figure out how to get the machine on a cycle dyno.
Monster fuel the flash provider has a Dyno available for testing at a near by service shop and is suppose to be working on a stage 2 turbo.
I have yet to see them post ANY results on their web page. It's time for them to poop or get off the potty. My butt Dyno tells me I'm up 20% across the board, But,
SHOW ME THE MONEY MONSTER FUEL.
Dennis

 

[als]

I must be missing something here. Who says that you have to have the engine in the bike to dyno?
It can be dyno tested on a stand - same as a car. So long buds, nanny, and all other computer controls.
als

 

[Devious56]

Interesting discussion, and here is a video I posted a while ago, yes, you can dyno a Spyder.
Can-Am Spyder - Three Wheel Motorcycle - Bing video -

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...E8A6CA422DE3A2C85783E8A6CA422DE3A2C&FORM=VIRE

As for the ECU reflash, I have a 2015 RT Limited, with a one-piece exhaust and the muffler is a fiberglass wrapped can, on the free-flowing side. I can't give you horsepower numbers, or drag strip times, but will say that seat of the pants, my RT seems to have better throttle response, and it is smoother running over the whole rpm range. With my wife on the back, it easily spins the rear tire thru 1st gear, I was taking off from a driveway, and I had no need to do any more. The same thing when passing a car on the road from 65 mph - instead of having to down shift three times like I normally do (and I will say that I have hit the rev limiter (8300 rpm) a couple of times while passing) I only had to downshift twice to get the needed acceleration. Just about the time I felt it was time to shift out of 4th I glanced at the tach & it was at 8500 rpm and so smooth I didn't want to believe it. I can't say any more except my RT is smoother now whatever rpm I'm at, has better throttle response, and my gas mileage is about the same as it was before, as long as I behave myself. I have no regrets, and the folks at Wick-It Performance (in La.) were absolutely great to work with. I'm not a street racer or anything like that, but when I ask, I expect performance back. The only wrecks I've had have been on the racetrack; and I think I understand performance. I've owned a Kawasaki H2 that was warmed over, a Kawasaki Z1, a 170 mph Ducati, and the first Yamaha V-Max in Jacksonville Florida in 1984. I've only been riding for 58 years, so I guess I am really too old to be doing this, I'll be 79 on July 4th.

That ECU flash gives you so much more than just speed, it makes riding two up more enjoyable, and I think my RT is a much nicer all round street bike.

David VonStein
Middleburg, Florida

 

[mackanigbg]

Its now very late March 2018 and their site is still saying in development for the stage 2 for my F3-T ... I fired them off an email querying where things are up to on this so we will see what eventuates ... Having said that I would always rather 'wait' a while for the smoke to clear as inevitably there will be updates as with any new electronics release ...

I called them today asking about theit webpage, because I have earlier been able to find stage 1 and 2 for Spyders on the site.
He told me the homepage is under reconstruction and because of that some of the content has temporarily been lost.
The best way to contact them now for inquires is to send an e-mail to [email protected] . Write in the Subject that it´s about upgrade to a Spyder

 

[fatenhappy]

This information is correct with a twist. The RT & F3 base will default back out of that mode if the handle bars turn more than 3 degrees while on the dyno.
The latest F3S can be put into that mode through the dash options but is still sensitive to the 3 degree handle bar movement.
The Daytona can be put into the mode through a dash option plus you can turn the handle bars all you want.
I have two available service shops with dynos and neither will take the risk trying to figure out how to get the machine on a cycle dyno.
Monster fuel the flash provider has a Dyno available for testing at a near by service shop and is suppose to be working on a stage 2 turbo.
I have yet to see them post ANY results on their web page. It's time for them to poop or get off the potty. My butt Dyno tells me I'm up 20% across the board, But,
SHOW ME THE MONEY MONSTER FUEL.
Dennis

Totally, totally, totally agree ... PLEASE!

 

[fatenhappy]

Interesting discussion, and here is a video I posted a while ago, yes, you can dyno a Spyder.
Can-Am Spyder - Three Wheel Motorcycle - Bing video -

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...E8A6CA422DE3A2C85783E8A6CA422DE3A2C&FORM=VIRE

As for the ECU reflash, I have a 2015 RT Limited, with a one-piece exhaust and the muffler is a fiberglass wrapped can, on the free-flowing side. I can't give you horsepower numbers, or drag strip times, but will say that seat of the pants, my RT seems to have better throttle response, and it is smoother running over the whole rpm range. With my wife on the back, it easily spins the rear tire thru 1st gear, I was taking off from a driveway, and I had no need to do any more. The same thing when passing a car on the road from 65 mph - instead of having to down shift three times like I normally do (and I will say that I have hit the rev limiter (8300 rpm) a couple of times while passing) I only had to downshift twice to get the needed acceleration. Just about the time I felt it was time to shift out of 4th I glanced at the tach & it was at 8500 rpm and so smooth I didn't want to believe it. I can't say any more except my RT is smoother now whatever rpm I'm at, has better throttle response, and my gas mileage is about the same as it was before, as long as I behave myself. I have no regrets, and the folks at Wick-It Performance (in La.) were absolutely great to work with. I'm not a street racer or anything like that, but when I ask, I expect performance back. The only wrecks I've had have been on the racetrack; and I think I understand performance. I've owned a Kawasaki H2 that was warmed over, a Kawasaki Z1, a 170 mph Ducati, and the first Yamaha V-Max in Jacksonville Florida in 1984. I've only been riding for 58 years, so I guess I am really too old to be doing this, I'll be 79 on July 4th.

That ECU flash gives you so much more than just speed, it makes riding two up more enjoyable, and I think my RT is a much nicer all round street bike.

David VonStein
Middleburg, Florida

That's exactly what I have been looking for ..... and I loved the video ... Stay safe and appreciate your expertise

 

[Bob Denman]

Hi,
I agree with some of the previous "speakers", I came from the quad/ATV community before I bought my first Spyder and there it was a natural thing to tune it in every possible way, air filter, exhaust and software

We must have gone to different High Schools together! :thumbup:
I also rose up out of the mud: I had a perfectly good 2004 Grizzly 660...
Before I knew it: I had THIS! :clap:

 

[Rick H.]

Okay Spyder People, where are we on the performance upgrades that have been bantered about in this thread? I am now 67 years old. I ride a BMW K1600 GTL two wheeler. Horsepower rating is about 160ish. I am on my 4th K1600 now and love the bike, but in all honesty I pretty much baby the thing 98 to 99 percent of the time. I have owned Harleys prior to 2002 and went thru all the hoops to make more horsepower with them, but in the end it was like putting lipstick on a pig and in 2005 and made the switch to BMW. So about 3 or so years ago I get this urge to take a hard look at getting a Spyder. I am getting older and liked the thought of having three wheels under me instead of two and the Spyder looked like a hoot to ride. So I go to two different Spyder dealers and take a few Spyders for test rides. Now I have spent quite a bit of time in my Harley days riding trikes and sidecars, but initially the Spyder was quite different and fun. So eventually I take the Spyders out on the interstate and that's where things changed. Once on the Big Road it felt like I left half the engine on the on-ramp. The Spyder didn't handle bad and I had been warned about how to grip the handlebars etc., but talk about lack of power....OMG where did it all go? To me the Spyders where struggling just to keep up traffic let alone trying pass anything.

I still like the premise behind the Spyder, but man-oh-man it needs more horsepower! I started looking for information on doing some mods to a Spyder to make more power and it was like looking at a picture of the desert. Nothing was out there. Nobody was apparently venturing into this uncharted land, nor did it appear there was any interest in doing so. Truth be told people my age are not going to be able to sustain production of Spyders indefinitely. I have a news flash for BRP, younger potential owners want power and speed! They are not all sitting around playing computer games as some people would have you believe and they really do have some disposable income. When they spend that income they want to feel like they got something worthwhile and exciting for their investment. If you give people a Spyder with 150 to 160 horsepower that will give them excitement, but they certainly aren't going to shell out $30K for a so-so Spyder when that same money will get them into a Subaru WRX or similar vehicle. If you build an exciting vehicle for a reasonable price they will buy it. I also own a 2017 Australian built Chevrolet SS and that car was an absolute steal when I bought it.

So here we are, 3 years or so later and I still find the Spyder concept interesting, but no real movement on performance gains. I almost had myself talked into revisiting a Spyder dealer and taking a test ride, but then I asked myself why? From what I have read in this thread nothing has changed in performance with the Spyder and other than some off-shoot experimentation of a limited number of aftermarket companies, nothing is happening on the outside either. How sad...….

Rick H.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Okay Spyder People, where are we on the performance upgrades that have been bantered about in this thread? I am now 67 years old. I ride a BMW K1600 GTL two wheeler. Horsepower rating is about 160ish. I am on my 4th K1600 now and love the bike, but in all honesty I pretty much baby the thing 98 to 99 percent of the time. I have owned Harleys prior to 2002 and went thru all the hoops to make more horsepower with them, but in the end it was like putting lipstick on a pig and in 2005 and made the switch to BMW. So about 3 or so years ago I get this urge to take a hard look at getting a Spyder. I am getting older and liked the thought of having three wheels under me instead of two and the Spyder looked like a hoot to ride. So I go to two different Spyder dealers and take a few Spyders for test rides. Now I have spent quite a bit of time in my Harley days riding trikes and sidecars, but initially the Spyder was quite different and fun. So eventually I take the Spyders out on the interstate and that's where things changed. Once on the Big Road it felt like I left half the engine on the on-ramp. The Spyder didn't handle bad and I had been warned about how to grip the handlebars etc., but talk about lack of power....OMG where did it all go? To me the Spyders where struggling just to keep up traffic let alone trying pass anything.

I still like the premise behind the Spyder, but man-oh-man it needs more horsepower! I started looking for information on doing some mods to a Spyder to make more power and it was like looking at a picture of the desert. Nothing was out there. Nobody was apparently venturing into this uncharted land, nor did it appear there was any interest in doing so. Truth be told people my age are not going to be able to sustain production of Spyders indefinitely. I have a news flash for BRP, younger potential owners want power and speed! They are not all sitting around playing computer games as some people would have you believe and they really do have some disposable income. When they spend that income they want to feel like they got something worthwhile and exciting for their investment. If you give people a Spyder with 150 to 160 horsepower that will give them excitement, but they certainly aren't going to shell out $30K for a so-so Spyder when that same money will get them into a Subaru WRX or similar vehicle. If you build an exciting vehicle for a reasonable price they will buy it. I also own a 2017 Australian built Chevrolet SS and that car was an absolute steal when I bought it.

So here we are, 3 years or so later and I still find the Spyder concept interesting, but no real movement on performance gains. I almost had myself talked into revisiting a Spyder dealer and taking a test ride, but then I asked myself why? From what I have read in this thread nothing has changed in performance with the Spyder and other than some off-shoot experimentation of a limited number of aftermarket companies, nothing is happening on the outside either. How sad...….

Rick H.

Dear Rick, you made a wrong turn somewhere, this is NOT a BMW forum :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: .......... Google Monster Fuel ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Okay Spyder People, where are we on the performance upgrades that have been bantered about in this thread?....

I still like the premise behind the Spyder, but man-oh-man it needs more horsepower!.....

The issue may very well be that you envision yourself as belonging to a much larger power hungry group than what in reality exists. The potential market may just not be there in the numbers you think. And then, the days of reshaping camshafts and heads to get more power are pretty much gone. It's a computer world, and the Can Am engine is a computer connected to a mechanical rotating system. You can bet the programming that runs the 1330 is probably ten times as complicated as what took the astronauts to the moon. Reverse engineering software is a non-starter unless the potential market is large enough to recover millions in programming costs. BRP is targeting the vast middle area of the potential market, and as I said, power hungry riders aren't part of the middle third of the curve. By your own admission you don't use the power offering of your BMW very much at all. BRP most likely is satisfied to provide a machine for the 95 out of 100 who are potential owners. There's nothing to be gained by going after the other 5 if it adds a lot of cost to the machine.

 

[canamjhb]

When my warranty runs out I will be looking at ways to improve performance. My wife is tired of following my on our (her) Goldwing when I am unable to accelerate around a vehicle on a mountain road due to lack of HP. There have been times when she has come on the Sena and asked "what's wrong?" when I tell her I was at full throttle and can't go any faster. I'm not a speed junkie and I am well over 70 years old. But I don't want my ass hanging out in an oncoming lane any longer than necessary when I pass a slow vehicle.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

When my warranty runs out I will be looking at ways to improve performance. My wife is tired of following my on our (her) Goldwing when I am unable to accelerate around a vehicle on a mountain road due to lack of HP. There have been times when she has come on the Sena and asked "what's wrong?" when I tell her I was at full throttle and can't go any faster. I'm not a speed junkie and I am well over 70 years old. But I don't want my ass hanging out in an oncoming lane any longer than necessary when I pass a slow vehicle.

I've always contended that high end torque is lacking with both engines, 998 and 1330, although the 1330 is a lot better. I almost always drop into 5th to pass a truck. Acceleration is fairly decent in 5th and you can wind it up to 80 with no problem.

 

[canamjhb]

I've always contended that high end torque is lacking with both engines, 998 and 1330, although the 1330 is a lot better. I almost always drop into 5th to pass a truck. Acceleration is fairly decent in 5th and you can wind it up to 80 with no problem.

I often drop down to 4th, especially when pulling the trailer. But more guts would be beneficial. I agree that the top end torque is lacking.....

 

[larryd]

When BRP came out with the F3 and they wanted them to perform better they simply put an 89-tooth rear sprocket on that machine. What BRP should have also offered was an 89 T. rear sprocket upgrade for the heaver RT machines which are more often ridden two up and many of us are pulling trailers...

The sprocket and belt are a simple bolt on for the RT from the F3... The problem is in the computer part of the puzzle...

Steve at Monster Fuel Injection is working with several sources to try and make this happen...

larryd

 

[wmh9680]

Steve flashed mine and it runs better, esp at higher revs, would be interested in the 89t. Mike crow