Dear BRP: I love you but why are you so nonsensical?

[cuznjohn]

For me the lack of a hand brake is a deal breaker. No hand brake, no Spyder.


A major advantage of OEM versus after-market is that any dealer (at least in theory) would be able to properly maintain the system and could not use its installation as an excuse to not perform warranty work on the rest of the Spyder's braking system should it ever be needed.


I accept that many people see no need for one, but for those who want or need one, the option should be made available. Whether it be direct from the factory or a dealer installed option, an OEM blessed offering should be readily obtainable.

here is the link to the hand brake that most of us that like it can install it. it is not really hard to install and works great. i have installed two on the two rt's i have had http://www.isciride.com/?product_cat=brakes-rt

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: ISCI has a great hand-brake... If that's what you want or need. :thumbup:
I'm still fortunate enough to have my right leg still working well-enough, and I would rather not have BRP burden everyone with the costs of a feature, that not everyone either wants, or needs.

 

[Thump]

It would be great to see BRP offer the handbrake as a disability option on new units. Almost every car manufacturer offers to pay some amount, often $1000 towards modifying their vehicles for disabled drivers. It usually costs much more than what they allow of course but it sure would be great to have that support if you purchase their vehicle.
Of course it takes a certified installer to modify the vehicle. On my vehicles I had to have hand controls installed for the accelerator and brake and I'm sure there is a lot of Red Tape involved, as it required a VA prescription to get the process going for me plus formal training.
Probably not profitable for BRP to put on all bikes but a disability modification allowance on new units would really help. Leave it up to the buyer to be eligible in their state and have BRP pay the installer directly if they are concerned over where the money may be going. It's not like it's not done all the time for cars.
Of course I'm one of those who can't ride without the handbrake so I'm bias!

 

[MRH]

Cars are necessary elements in the life of many people. Motorcycles of any breed are luxuries and recreation. Paying for that, in any way, shouldn't be the responsibility of BRP or the taxpayers (with the possible exception of those who were inured in service to country).

There are good aftermarket options for handbrakes. If that were not the case, I might have a different view, but the bike is capable of being modified. When you really think about it, the ability of somebody without full use of their legs to be able to be on something like a Spyder is an amazing and wonderful thing, and the cost of the modification seems to be less than the difference between a regular model Spyder and the next version up.

 

[Mike Ard]

With respect to those who are disabled, I would contend that as a percentage the number of riders unable to use the footbrake are very few. Handbrakes, while some have them, are not put on with great frequency, and may be confusing to some riders who have come from four wheels rather than from two (two brakes?). For those riders who are are accustomed to two different brakes (foot and hand) operating brakes on two different wheels, it may add even more confusion.

I would guess, if one were able to run the numbers, that the additional costs of the various scenarios involving hand brakes just don't add up profitably for BRP, and there are option for those who need handbrakes.

The thing that suprised me when the F3 first came out was the number of folks who just like me bought and paid for their F3's and had to wait months for the hand brake kit to become available. I had thought I was alone but now know that was not the case. Also I was told that ISCI had an extensive waiting list just for the F3 kit so if you add that to the number of folks needing/wanting a hand brake kit for other model spyders and folks who did their own conversions you may be surprised at how many there are out there.

It was floated some years ago that the reason BRP went with the foot brake was to try and get around the motorcycle endorsement requirement in most states. To my knowledge (and I could be wrong) California is the only state that lets the spyder off the hook as far as endorsements is concerned. I did see a post that in some countries having a foot brake vs a hand brake lets owners licience their bikes for less money.

From an engenering standpoint BRP could have easily encorperated a hand brake set up and in my opinion should have. I have read and seen a lot of reviews where the rider comments on the lack of a hand brake.

Speaking of confusion I guess when you are refering to 4 wheels you are speaking of autos? I have owned and ridden a number of ATV's including the old honda 3 wheeler that all had both a hand brake and right side foot brake so I don't see that being any more of an issue than for a first time ATV buyer.

It is true my biggest gripe with BRP is the hand brake but.......I think they missed the boat on a couple of other things in particular on the F3 and RT. On the F3 it seems like they cheap charlied the rear shock. It has been noted by a number of folks that ride two up that the rear shock tends to bottom out and is not adjustable. On my friends new 15 RT the front shocks seem to be a problem when riding two up. A number of folks are getting the BajaRon sway bar to firm up the front end so it doesn't feel so mushy when cornered at speed.

That said I do love my F3 more every day and every mile.

 

[r1100rider]

I am pretty sure that BRP will not do a "factory" handbrake set up. The single pedal and ABS plus VSS will stop you way better than most motorcycles with combined hand and foot brake.

Fortunately, for those that need a handbrake option--there is aftermarket out there and they do cost over $1,000.

I would not want to pay extra if not needed. :thumbup:

the stopping distance of a spyder is not even close to being as good as the best street bikes if they would just put a hand brake into production on every spyder the cost would only be a few dollars it's when you make things options that's what drives up production costs look at what has happened with cars ,in the old days when a new car was 4000 the a/c option was 500 now it's just put in to production on every car and the cost isn't even noticed try to find a new car without a/c and power windows,steering,power brakes people were saying the same thing back when a new car was 4000 they didn't want to pay a large percentage in crease for those options but once they were programmed into every car the costs fell way down

 

[Peter Aawen]

the stopping distance of a spyder is not even close to being as good as the best street bikes......

Sorry, but that's just not the case..... unless maybe you haven't yet explored the FULL stopping capability these Spyders have!!

When you take into account the advantages that having TWO front wheels brings to braking, maintaining grip on the road, and just basic stability, even before you start to add in the advantages/braking enhancements you get from all the VSS features.... it becomes fairly obvious as to why a Spyder braking anywhere near it's full capability can MASSIVELY out-brake just about anything on 2 wheels as well as most things on 4 wheels that regularly use the roads!

 

[r1100rider]

Sorry, but that's just not the case..... unless maybe you haven't yet explored the FULL stopping capability these Spyders have!!

When you take into account the advantages that having TWO front wheels brings to braking, maintaining grip on the road, and just basic stability, even before you start to add in the advantages/braking enhancements you get from all the VSS features.... it becomes fairly obvious as to why a Spyder braking anywhere near it's full capability can MASSIVELY out-brake just about anything on 2 wheels as well as most things on 4 wheels that regularly use the roads!

Your wrong look it up in cycle world tests these modern bikes like an s1000 bmw with abs and 1/2 the weight will out stop a spyder rt it's in writing with track testing spyder 130 ft from 60 mph s1000 118 ft from 60 the bike has as many discs on its brakes less than 1/2 the weight and only one less tire now if we are talking Harley then different story

 

[Peter Aawen]

Yeah, I s'pose that a Spyder RT would be the best choice for that sort of 'direct comparison'....


After all, an RT's obviously the lightest & sportiest Spyder model around, innit?! :sour:



:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Darren111]

Hand brake and Parking brake

Is there a difference between hand brake and parking brake?:dontknow:

 

[ARtraveler]

Is there a difference between hand brake and parking brake?:dontknow:

The parking brake (aka. E brake) is to hold your :ani29: in place while parking. The computer will let you know if you fail to put it on or off. Beep, beep, beep.

A handbrake is what is found on most two wheel motorcycles. Right handlegrip position--used to apply brake to the front wheel. Most front brakes on motorcycles supply 75% of the total stopping power.

The ABS on the :spyder2: gives you the proper braking just by stepping on the brake pedal.

 

[Darren111]

The parking brake (aka. E brake) is to hold your :ani29: in place while parking. The computer will let you know if you fail to put it on or off. Beep, beep, beep.

A handbrake is what is found on most two wheel motorcycles. Right handlegrip position--used to apply brake to the front wheel. Most front brakes on motorcycles supply 75% of the total stopping power.

The ABS on the :spyder2: gives you the proper braking just by stepping on the brake pedal.

Thank you Akspyderman for explaining the differences. :bowdown:

 

[Fatcycledaddy]

Hand Brake

I understand that some people could use and would like a hand brake, and I respect those who need it to ride. My question is where do we draw the line? My feeling is that this is a free market society and if the market would support the engineering cost, manufacturing liability cost, and production cost, BRP would offer one.

When the government gets involved in demanding manufactures change things it just cost all of us more money and never works out well.:yikes: Look at the Chevy Volt, the government pushed that car to be designed and manufactured and their sales are dismal. Even with all of the government rebates and tax incentives, Chevy has lost money on every one of these that were manufactured and sold. So who covers the cost of that loss? Each and every other Chevy product purchaser, meaning that everyone else is subsidizing those loses.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

So where does it stop? Next week will we want BRP to sell a bike with Russel Day Long Saddles for our comfort? Maybe a motorized floor board to lift me up higher so it is easier to get my leg over the seat?:2thumbs::2thumbs::2thumbs:

We personally have to make our own choices on what we want, what we will pay for, and what will or wont work for each of us. If no hand brake is a deal breaker, then it is just that, a deal breaker and you will need to find something that fits your needs better. Or if you know up front that a hand brake is going to cost you a little extra money and you want the Spyder bad enough to pay the difference for a hand brake to make it work, then make the decision and ride.

I personally think I paid enough for my Spyder and do not want to help subsidize a hand brake for those who want one.

 

[SmoovOpRatoR]

I personally think I paid enough for my Spyder and do not want to help subsidize a hand brake for those who want one.

I'm not sure I understand, if the hand brake was a factory option, how would you be subsidizing and/or increasing the price of your own Spyder without that option?

 

[ARtraveler]

I'm not sure I understand, if the hand brake was a factory option, how would you be subsidizing and/or increasing the price of your own Spyder without that option?

Am thinking the above discussion was based on the brake being installed on :spyder2: whether wanted or not. Then it is being forced on us at extra cost.

If it were a factory option, then, it is up to the person buying the :ani29: as to whether or not they want to opt for the extra brake. I am sure okay with that. I just don't want to pay for something I don't want.

That is one reason I have never bought a Limited edition RT. I don't need or want a Garman.

 

[Fatcycledaddy]

There is more to it than just making it an option and then only the people who purchase the option pays for it.
When you have engineering cost, design cost, testing cost, production cost, and liability cost incurred by a company they will not cover all of those cost without having a plan to recoup them.

When it is an option that not everyone will want, they have to calculate how many of that option are going to be sold, then come up with a price that is as high as possible without making it too expensive to purchase. They then calculate out the amount of loss they have after a year of projections of the number of options sold verses the cost incurred.

The company will not just eat those losses, so they then in turn will calculate out how much of a cost increase will have to be added to each machine without that option.

 

[ARtraveler]

There is more to it than just making it an option and then only the people who purchase the option pays for it.
When you have engineering cost, design cost, testing cost, production cost, and liability cost incurred by a company they will not cover all of those cost without having a plan to recoup them.

When it is an option that not everyone will want, they have to calculate how many of that option are going to be sold, then come up with a price that is as high as possible without making it too expensive to purchase. They then calculate out the amount of loss they have after a year of projections of the number of options sold verses the cost incurred.

The company will not just eat those losses, so they then in turn will calculate out how much of a cost increase will have to be added to each machine without that option.

What you say is right on the money (pardon the pun). I have experience with cost accounting and all the above is factored in. So, yes, even if it is an option, there are hidden costs figured in.

If we take it to this point, I dislike that I am paying for the pensions and medical coverage that previous workers are getting, on each and every vehicle purchased. This is where factory overhead (factory burden) comes into the pricing. Each vehicle is allocated its portion according to various formulas. :yikes::yikes:

 

[ThreeWheels]

I wasn't suggesting making a hand brake operate front wheels only; I figured we already have linked brakes, the hand control would do the same thing so you can use either or, or both. The parts (if added by BRP) would hardly cost a couple hundred dollars;

My right foot thankfully works fine, but it would be nice to sometimes put both feet on rear pegs (on long trips when the legs get tired of the same position for hours on end) and still have the ability to brake in an emergency. Not saying it needs to be standard, but it would surely be nice as a dealer-added factory option.

If governments mandate it, that's a real bummer but I guess at least they don't require Spyder seat belts! LOL

Have you considered foot boards ?

 

[Mike Ard]

There is more to it than just making it an option and then only the people who purchase the option pays for it.
When you have engineering cost, design cost, testing cost, production cost, and liability cost incurred by a company they will not cover all of those cost without having a plan to recoup them.

When it is an option that not everyone will want, they have to calculate how many of that option are going to be sold, then come up with a price that is as high as possible without making it too expensive to purchase. They then calculate out the amount of loss they have after a year of projections of the number of options sold verses the cost incurred.

The company will not just eat those losses, so they then in turn will calculate out how much of a cost increase will have to be added to each machine without that option.

I disagree with the premise that everyone will be paying. First of all if that is the case everyone pays for the BRp saddle bags for the F3 and every other option for each model weather they want them or not. Second there is a company completly independent of BRP that does make hand brake kits for each model and does not seem to be losing money or they would not still be making them for each new model that comes out. ISCI has been making the hand brake kit's for all spyder models for over five years.

 

[MRH]

I disagree with the premise that everyone will be paying. First of all if that is the case everyone pays for the BRp saddle bags for the F3 and every other option for each model weather they want them or not. Second there is a company completly independent of BRP that does make hand brake kits for each model and does not seem to be losing money or they would not still be making them for each new model that comes out. ISCI has been making the hand brake kit's for all spyder models for over five years.

Yes, we do pay for everything on the bike, which is why they only put features on the bike that are popular enough that most people would want them.

And, yes, there is a company making hand brakes for those people who think they are worth the cost of having them.

This is such an amazingly first world problem. You have to go to a different manufacturer to get a specialized part for a high-end recreational toy. I just don't see what the issue is when the problem has been solved by a different company, and when it has not presented anything but theoretical problems.