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  1. #1
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    Default Another one bytes the dust...

    We're just going out of lockdown here (Portugal, Western Europe), doing a little Spring maintenance and just found this...



    Totally aware of the problem been doing routine checks at 5000km/3100mi intervals.

    For stats it's a 2018 F3-S euro model with 27000km/16777mi not using any belt tensioner, kept in a garage and driven 80% with no rain and mostly two-up.

    Now I could take it to the dealer and have them replaced the pulley or I could do it myself...

    For 2018 according to this: https://www.brppartspitstop.com/oemp...5e4/rear-drive

    I'll need:
    Sprocket 28 Thooth #705502134
    Screw-Hex.Flange Din.6921 S.Grip #250001017 (was #705502292?)

    Strangely according to this: https://www.brppartspitstop.com/oemp...-international

    Sprocket part number has changed since Sep.2020
    Sprocket 28 Teeth #705503239

    Is this an improved version? Which one should I get?

    Also there's seems to be two options when applying a paste:

    Molly Paste:
    Loctite 51048 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound /Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound

    While Lamonster seems to have a different approach and recommend Loctite 648 bonding/retaining compound.

    Any evidence or thoughts about this?

    Finally, I'll certainly need a pulley puller - of any particular type? what kind works with the Spyder sprocket?

    Any other tool I should have?

    Also is there any videos or some kind of step by step doc about the procedure... probably asking too much but that would be great.

    Thank you to all.
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  2. #2
    Active Member EdMat's Avatar
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    705503239 is the sprocket. 250001017 is the flanged bolt.

    Doubt you will need the puller.

    I used Honda M77 molly paste. Not sure on Loc-Tite numbers
    2019 RT Limited , Phoenix Orange

  3. #3
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdMat View Post
    705503239 is the sprocket. 250001017 is the flanged bolt.

    Doubt you will need the puller.

    I used Honda M77 molly paste. Not sure on Loc-Tite numbers
    ... be very careful what paste you use I don't think Anti-seize compound is going to work .... and PRP had the same issue and used some WD-40 on the shaft and it slid right off .... be sure to get the splines Clean before using the Moly ..... good luck .... Mike

  4. #4
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    I used this paste on mine after premature pulley failure at 10k miles. I blame the dealer for the initial issue, but had them add this Loctite branded moly paste and reduce my belt tension. I've put 5k miles on it since. Still looks the same, just dust from dirt collecting on it..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    Default

    Just ordered the new sprocket and bolt today so I guess I'll be doing it myself.

    153€+14€ = 167€ or around $200... not cheap.

    Looking for the Moly Paste and it's not easily available here... will keep searching.

    Thank you.
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  6. #6
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    can i ask do you manually shift down or let the bike do it on its own

  7. #7
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    Default BRP Recommended

    I don't know if this will help. BPR recommends Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It my be easier for you to find.

  8. #8
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    I just did mine last weekend. 2015 F3S with only 6700 miles. From the outside it looked ok but I had already purchased the new white pulley so decided to pull the old pulley, you will definately need a puller, I bought an $18 gear puller at auto parts store said it fit 4 inch gear and it was perfect. There I could see the red dust starting to form. I am glad to catch it when I was ready to deal with it. Took the bolt out with tire on ground and break on, raised the rear tire and rolled the belt off, pulled the pulley and then reversed the steps. I used the Honda 77 paste and was very carefull to clean the shaft well. Be sure to torque the bolt properly, i think 115. Not a difficult task. Good luck.

  9. #9
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiffy View Post
    I don't know if this will help. BPR recommends Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It my be easier for you to find.
    Sorry, but while it may be more readily available, the stuff does not hold up or last. My opinion is using Kluberpaste makes the reinspection and relube interval to be accomplished at each oil change.
    2014 RTS , Nippon Denso plugs no Pearl White

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy View Post
    can i ask do you manually shift down or let the bike do it on its own
    Yes of course. I do not drive "aggressively" and would say 80% of time I don not shift down and let the transmission do it on its own.
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  11. #11
    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiffy View Post
    I don't know if this will help. BPR recommends Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It my be easier for you to find.
    Kind of ironic that Can-Am is recommending something for their major pulley snafu..


    2019 F3-S SE6 Monolith Black
    --------------------------------
    Comfort: Madstad 14" dark gray - 20" light gray windshields/Seth Laam seat/Homemade floorboards-highway pegs/+5 linkage/Attitude bars/Heated grips/Big Bike backrest

    Ride and Handling: Spyder Extras sway bar/Vredestein Q5 front tires/Cooper CS5 Ultra rear tire/Two Up shock/Laser aligned/15" Widow PPA wheels/Podium 1.5 front shocks

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    Convenience: Shad detachable luggage/Top Cuff w/handlebar mirrors/Garmin Zumo XT GPS/Lamonster Packrack-Kappa 56L top case

    Safety/Protection: H4 LED headlights/Aux rear LED lights/TricLED driving lights/TricLED run-brake-turn rear light/Frunk lip LED light strip/Spyder Extras bumper guard grill/ chopped rear fender
    2019 F3-S , Monolith black

  12. #12
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    So in terms of what should be applied we have:

    Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound (or Loctite 51048/51049)
    Kluberpaste 46 MR 401
    Honda M77 (which replaced Honda M60) used for Honda shaft transmissions.

    Now LB8012 apparently meets the requirement of 60% molybdenum disulfide (which is the main stuff we're all after).

    A bit of controversy about Honda's M77 seems it does not meet the minimum needed 40% as the previous stuff (M60) would
    see: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/thr...tly-so.163897/

    Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 seems to not have any...

    But they do have another product listed as Molly paste: https://www.norelem.com/us/en/Produc...lubricant.html

    At this time, LB8012 seems the safest options...
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  13. #13
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakoShark2 View Post
    So in terms of what should be applied we have:

    Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound (or Loctite 51048/51049)
    Kluberpaste 46 MR 401
    Honda M77 (which replaced Honda M60) used for Honda shaft transmissions.

    Now LB8012 apparently meets the requirement of 60% molybdenum disulfide (which is the main stuff we're all after).

    A bit of controversy about Honda's M77 seems it does not meet the minimum needed 40% as the previous stuff (M60) would
    see: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/thr...tly-so.163897/

    Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 seems to not have any...

    But they do have another product listed as Molly paste: https://www.norelem.com/us/en/Produc...lubricant.html

    At this time, LB8012 seems the safest options...
    Kind of interesting to see you finding references to percentage of moly in the paste. Not sure where that info came from.

    From experience using various moly pastes, assembly lubes, and greases, I would be more focused on a moly product that retains some viscosity vs drying out or so thin it runs out. Often it seems higher densities of moly tend kind of gum up, while greases tend to dry up as the carrier base is worn away.

    Of the products you listed, my choice would be the Honda 77 which should be Molykote77.

    Regardless, Crisco cooking lard would likely outperform Kluberpaste.
    2014 RTS , Nippon Denso plugs no Pearl White

  14. #14
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    LB8012 explictly says +65% in it's datasheet: https://www.werkenmetmerken.nl/docs/...B_8012_TDS.pdf

    Now if Honda M77 is Molykote M77 then I think it may have other issues as the datasheet states:
    "Suitable for lubrication points with low to moderate loads and low speeds that are subjected to water and extreme temperatures; at
    temperatures above 230C (446F), the carrier volatilizes leaving virtually no residue, and the remaining dry sliding film itself takes over the lubrication up to +400C (+662F).
    Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils.
    Used successfully on metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates and the brake pistons of disc brakes."

    datasheet here: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/d...1-0186G-01.pdf
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  15. #15
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakoShark2 View Post
    LB8012 explictly says +65% in it's datasheet: https://www.werkenmetmerken.nl/docs/...B_8012_TDS.pdf

    Now if Honda M77 is Molykote M77 then I think it may have other issues as the datasheet states:
    "Suitable for lubrication points with low to moderate loads and low speeds that are subjected to water and extreme temperatures; at
    temperatures above 230C (446F), the carrier volatilizes leaving virtually no residue, and the remaining dry sliding film itself takes over the lubrication up to +400C (+662F).
    Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils.
    Used successfully on metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates and the brake pistons of disc brakes."

    datasheet here: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/d...1-0186G-01.pdf
    Not so much curious about the percentage of moly within the product vs where is the published data stating the amount required.
    2014 RTS , Nippon Denso plugs no Pearl White

  16. #16
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    Oh that will never know as the paste BRP recommends seems to not have any.

    For me now it's more a question of getting the right stuff at the right price.

    Found LB 8012 and Honda M77 on ebay, both coming from the UK.

    454g/16Oz/1lbs of LB 8012 at 84,47€/$100
    or
    75g/2.6Oz of Honda M77 at 41,5€/$50

    I surely won't need 1 pound of paste and paying $100 for it seems a bit too much when I have already $200 in parts.

    The Honda stuff is much more expensive, but still half that what I would spend for the Loctite. Would a 2.6Oz tube be enough to lubricate the splines?
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  17. #17
    Active Member EdMat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakoShark2 View Post
    Would a 2.6Oz tube be enough to lubricate the splines?
    Many times over.
    2019 RT Limited , Phoenix Orange

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdMat View Post
    Many times over.
    Thanks. I just ordered the Honda stuff... 1 pound of loctite just didn't made sense.

    Now I'll have to wait everything to be delivered.
    2018 F3S , Monolith Black Satin

  19. #19
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    has anyone tried to find out what Honda uses on their DCT bikes ie: Goldwing or the new 1100 ?
    2019 F3 S
    2019 f3-s , Blue

  20. #20
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    RosieridderKy, I couldn't find those part numbers on BRP website, is that where you purchased the parts, or somewhere else? Thanks in advance...Clint
    2015 F3 , OEM None Black

  21. #21
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    EdMat, looking to replace the front sprocket and bolt on my 2015 F3, I did not find the above mentioned part numbers on BRP website, please advise as to where I can find them, thanks in advance...Clint
    2015 F3 , OEM None Black

  22. #22
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    The use of a lubricant implies that the pulley is loose and is being worn away(red dust) if the lubricant is omitted. Why not put bearing mount adhesive, or something similar, to "secure" it???
    Eckhard

    Spyder RT Ltd, 2011
    2011 RT Ltd. , Pearl White

  23. #23
    Active Member EdMat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stovebolt_six View Post
    EdMat, looking to replace the front sprocket and bolt on my 2015 F3, I did not find the above mentioned part numbers on BRP website, please advise as to where I can find them, thanks in advance...Clint
    cheapcycleparts.com is here i got mine. you could also try brppartshouse.com
    2019 RT Limited , Phoenix Orange

  24. #24
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    If anyone cares to learn more about spline drives, this is a great short engineering article. While I know many believe Can Am screwed it up and the drive pulley should be a no maintenance last forever item, this article gives insight as to why the pulleys fail.

    I posted this years ago here on Spyderlovers and have dealt with high performance splines for decades. Continuously others with minimal or no experience on the subject debate spline wear and pulley failures. I did not write this article, nor ever dealt with DanFoss. Simply a very accurate and informative article that may help guide those owners open minded enough to understand the splines are a maintenance item requiring routine inspection and relubrication after cleaning.

    https://assets.danfoss.com/documents...8en-000304.pdf
    2014 RTS , Nippon Denso plugs no Pearl White

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