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Thread: Rust dust

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Default Rust dust

    I was doing an oil change and inspection. This is what I found, picture below. Called the dealer. Because it is still under extended warranty. They are really busy so next available appointment is October 14th. So I put it back together and will drive it until then. If it was not under warranty I would have just bought a new pulley, grease and replaced it.
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    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    It's not that big of a deal to do that job!! I know what your saying about having them do it, you've payed for it! But I would make them give me the stuff and be done with it knowing that it's not going to rip you teeth off the shaft! It will take them all of what a hour to do the job and your waiting that long!! For what it's worth that's my 2 cents! If they have to order the part it will probably take 15-20 days to get it, I just had a water pump shaft take almost that to get, darn virus crap!!! Good luck, hope it go any further than it's already has!!!

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    Default Red dust

    have the dealer add loctite moly paste to the shaft splines before installing the new pulley. Its fretting and breaking down the pulley. The dealers should be pulling all these and getting ahead of the problem, but seem content to let one after the other fail and then address the problem. Took my dealer 6.5hrs to get my old pulley off. It didn't fail as I caught the dusting, but it was stuck. Best of luck in your fix..
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    Very Active Member JP58's Avatar
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    I have 17,000 miles on my F3L. No red dust. Should I remove the pully and put the moly paste lube on as a precaution. If so where can you buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP58 View Post
    I have 17,000 miles on my F3L. No red dust. Should I remove the pully and put the moly paste lube on as a precaution. If so where can you buy it.
    Me personally i would want to make sure something was on the splines, but that's your choice to make. Once the dust appears its time to replace the pulley. The dealer set my belt tension too high after tire replacement which may have contributed to my problem. I only had 10.5k miles on my 17 Daytona Edition. The bolt is a one time use and some guys replace their pulley every other oil change. I bought the paste from walmart.com. Now that i have paste on there I'm just going to monitor the condition of the pulley.

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    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottomline2000 View Post
    Me personally i would want to make sure something was on the splines, but that's your choice to make. Once the dust appears its time to replace the pulley. The dealer set my belt tension too high after tire replacement which may have contributed to my problem. I only had 10.5k miles on my 17 Daytona Edition. The bolt is a one time use and some guys replace their pulley every other oil change. I bought the paste from walmart.com. Now that i have paste on there I'm just going to monitor the condition of the pulley.
    I like the way you mark your washer and pulley for a reference!!!! good idea

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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    you state that the 'dealer should pull them all'... however, i'm more along the lines of thinking that BRP should research this issue, and develop a FIX so this never happens again to another SPYD3R.... this problem started back in 2015 and is ON-GOING to this day... we pay enough for these toys, that an issue that is so prevalent should be addressed by the manufacturer... BIG WRIST SLAP to BRP....
    i'm off to 'mark' my washer & pulley... gr8 idea, THX....
    DAN
    SPYD3R

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    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    So the mark is just there to show if the pulley has moved or not??

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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    So the mark is just there to show if the pulley has moved or not??
    Just a reference mark for the bolt. I have zero confidence in the dealer that did the work on my spyder and this is just for my peace of mind the bolt isn't backing out. these are the same guys who adjusted my belt so tight it could be picked like a guitar string..

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    you state that the 'dealer should pull them all'... however, i'm more along the lines of thinking that BRP should research this issue, and develop a FIX so this never happens again to another SPYD3R.... this problem started back in 2015 and is ON-GOING to this day... we pay enough for these toys, that an issue that is so prevalent should be addressed by the manufacturer... BIG WRIST SLAP to BRP....
    i'm off to 'mark' my washer & pulley... gr8 idea, THX....
    DAN
    SPYD3R
    My statement was more a reference for the spyders already on dealer showrooms. yes, this should be addressed at the factory and i honestly feel adding some lubricant (moly paste in my case) will protect the pulley and shaft from fretting. the little 8oz container i purchased could easily service 100 Spyders so no excuse this could not be done from the factory. Most people seem to just trust the dealer to replace the pulley and that's all they do. I see from personal experience with BRP and their dealers the customer has to be more hands on to make sure things are done properly. I'll see if using the paste resolves the problem as i'm an aggressive rider.

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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottomline2000 View Post
    My statement was more a reference for the spyders already on dealer showrooms. yes, this should be addressed at the factory and i honestly feel adding some lubricant (moly paste in my case) will protect the pulley and shaft from fretting. the little 8oz container i purchased could easily service 100 Spyders so no excuse this could not be done from the factory. Most people seem to just trust the dealer to replace the pulley and that's all they do. I see from personal experience with BRP and their dealers the customer has to be more hands on to make sure things are done properly. I'll see if using the paste resolves the problem as i'm an aggressive rider.
    KEEP US POSTED on any updates B-LINE....
    and THX a bunch...
    Dan
    SPYD3R

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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP58 View Post
    I have 17,000 miles on my F3L. No red dust. Should I remove the pully and put the moly paste lube on as a precaution. If so where can you buy it.
    Honda moly paste is good stuff too..
    https://www.amazon.com/Honda-HN-0879.../dp/B0083BWUYW


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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    OMG, JUST GOT BIT BY THE 'RED RUST DUST' MONSTER......
    lucky i was on this website this AM... i went out to 'mark' my 'washer & bolt', and low & behold, RUST DUST....
    i bot my ride in Dec. 2019, it's a 2019 F3, and it only has 4438.4 miles on her, and now this.... it's absolute BS in my estimation that BRP has let this issue continue for the past 4 or 5 yrs...
    check out the pix....
    IMG_20200913_104425.jpg IMG_20200913_104700.jpg
    calling the dealer tomorrow... hopefully they'll have a sprocket on hand...
    Dan
    SPYD3R

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    OMG, JUST GOT BIT BY THE 'RED RUST DUST' MONSTER......
    lucky i was on this website this AM... i went out to 'mark' my 'washer & bolt', and low & behold, RUST DUST....
    i bot my ride in Dec. 2019, it's a 2019 F3, and it only has 4438.4 miles on her, and now this.... it's absolute BS in my estimation that BRP has let this issue continue for the past 4 or 5 yrs...
    check out the pix....
    IMG_20200913_104425.jpg IMG_20200913_104700.jpg
    calling the dealer tomorrow... hopefully they'll have a sprocket on hand...
    Dan
    SPYD3R
    You caught it really early. They may only take it apart, clean and grease it. If I remember correctly the TSB says that the pulley is only replaced when there is wear on the pulley.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    You caught it really early. They may only take it apart, clean and grease it. If I remember correctly the TSB says that the pulley is only replaced when there is wear on the pulley.
    B-vine;
    just how is 'WEAR' classified...??? who makes this call...?
    if not replaced NOW, it WILL NEED REPLACING soon... why would they mess around, obviously - the TSB is BS.... they should just do the right thing NOW... luckily i bot the extended warrantee, (6 yrs),... @ 72 yrs of age, i just DO NOT need this aggravation... BRP is really piss'n me off now...
    Dan
    SPYD3R

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    B-vine;
    just how is 'WEAR' classified...??? who makes this call...?
    if not replaced NOW, it WILL NEED REPLACING soon... why would they mess around, obviously - the TSB is BS.... they should just do the right thing NOW... luckily i bot the extended warrantee, (6 yrs),... @ 72 yrs of age, i just DO NOT need this aggravation... BRP is really piss'n me off now...
    Dan
    SPYD3R
    Sucks it's already started, good that you caught it. At least you marked the parts for future reference. My dealer looked at me confused when i showed them the level of decay on my pulley. The rust IS wear on the pulley yet they didn't want to address it as a warranty or recall problem because it had not failed. I chose to pay for the new pulley/bolt and labor to replace it. they made a point to say they would not charge me to apply the paste..wow..My old pulley was identical to yours and had the same date stamp even though mine is a '17. The new one has a stamp, but is on the back, 4/2019, I believe and has a slight design change.

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    BRP needs to amend the maintenance task list to include removing the pulley, clean the pulley and gearbox splines, inspect for wear, if none is found, prepare the original pulley for reuse with lubricant or if wear is noted, replace with a new or serviceable pulley that is lubricated at installation.

    If other manufacturers have spline lubrication intervals, then the pulley spline requiring routine servicing is not incorrect.

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottomline2000 View Post
    Just a reference mark for the bolt. I have zero confidence in the dealer that did the work on my spyder and this is just for my peace of mind the bolt isn't backing out. these are the same guys who adjusted my belt so tight it could be picked like a guitar string..

    Years ago I too did the witness mark setup. At the time the mass majority of sheeple insisted the bolts had worked loose causing these problems.

    Being concerned as you are to the incompetence of the dealer that installed the pulley, you might recheck the bolt is properly tightened. I would speculate that the shop merely zipped it on with an impact gun, never bothering to get the torque wrench. Even if they do, no assurance the torque wrench is accurate.

    As flat rate workers, some may do a great job, while many would likely simply wipe those gearbox splines and not bother to remove the oxide particles which is the abrasive element. Those gearbox splines need to be very clean, same with the pulley, then fully coat both with the lubricant.

    I can hear it now, bike on lift, zip bolt out with impact gun, with rear wheel raised walk belt off rear pulley, remove old pulley, install new pulley, zip bolt in snug, reinstall belt by walking it back on to rear pulley, set rear tire on ground, fully zip new bolt tight. Done. Simple and flat rate fast. Paying customer is not wise to any of it, the pulley lasts well beyond any local dealers window of warranty liability.

    Repeat at the next sign of red dust.

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    Very Active Member SPYD3R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottomline2000 View Post
    have the dealer add loctite moly paste to the shaft splines before installing the new pulley. Its fretting and breaking down the pulley. The dealers should be pulling all these and getting ahead of the problem, but seem content to let one after the other fail and then address the problem. Took my dealer 6.5hrs to get my old pulley off. It didn't fail as I caught the dusting, but it was stuck. Best of luck in your fix..
    HELP me out here.... the SPROCKET slips onto a SPLINE... what is the purpose for the LUBE, and how does it effect the assembly...???
    Dan
    SPYD3R

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Not wanting to pay a high fee for the moly paste I'll never use up, would this product suffice for a spline lube? Just 4 ounces at $7.55
    https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20...EGECPFCG2EWRH0
    Or this one?
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO8A6P6...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
    Or thus one?
    https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20...EGECPFCG2EWRH0
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    Not wanting to pay a high fee for the moly paste I'll never use up, would this product suffice for a spline lube? Just 4 ounces at $7.55
    https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20...EGECPFCG2EWRH0
    Or this one?
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO8A6P6...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
    Or thus one?
    https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20...EGECPFCG2EWRH0
    Of those listed, go with the assembly lube

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Of those listed, go with the assembly lube
    Thank you....muchly appreciated.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Years ago I too did the witness mark setup. At the time the mass majority of sheeple insisted the bolts had worked loose causing these problems.

    Being concerned as you are to the incompetence of the dealer that installed the pulley, you might recheck the bolt is properly tightened. I would speculate that the shop merely zipped it on with an impact gun, never bothering to get the torque wrench. Even if they do, no assurance the torque wrench is accurate.

    As flat rate workers, some may do a great job, while many would likely simply wipe those gearbox splines and not bother to remove the oxide particles which is the abrasive element. Those gearbox splines need to be very clean, same with the pulley, then fully coat both with the lubricant.

    I can hear it now, bike on lift, zip bolt out with impact gun, with rear wheel raised walk belt off rear pulley, remove old pulley, install new pulley, zip bolt in snug, reinstall belt by walking it back on to rear pulley, set rear tire on ground, fully zip new bolt tight. Done. Simple and flat rate fast. Paying customer is not wise to any of it, the pulley lasts well beyond any local dealers window of warranty liability.

    Repeat at the next sign of red dust.
    the shop charged me 6.5 hours to replace my pulley. It took them about 3 working days to get my old pulley off. We more than had a discussion about that bolt being properly torqued which is why i marked the bolt. I had no intentions of breaking the tension on it to check the torque. My repair was so involved they had to have a 3rd party create a jig to get the old pulley off. It was a complete *****show which all started with them installing my tire incorrectly. They reduced my charge to 4hrs, but I won't let them touch my spyder again. You can even see the threads in my new pulley which was used to mock up the tool to remove the old one. Can't make this kind of stuff up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPYD3R View Post
    HELP me out here.... the SPROCKET slips onto a SPLINE... what is the purpose for the LUBE, and how does it effect the assembly...???
    Dan
    SPYD3R
    The purpose of the lube is to reduce the chance of the metals fretting. I'm not sure how freely it installs. The constant pressure from the output shaft against the pulley will eventually wear down the pulley(softer metal). The moly paste is there to act as a protective barrier between the metals and reduce the chance of the pulley breaking down and creating the red dust.

  25. #25
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottomline2000 View Post
    the shop charged me 6.5 hours to replace my pulley. It took them about 3 working days to get my old pulley off. We more than had a discussion about that bolt being properly torqued which is why i marked the bolt. I had no intentions of breaking the tension on it to check the torque. My repair was so involved they had to have a 3rd party create a jig to get the old pulley off. It was a complete *****show which all started with them installing my tire incorrectly. They reduced my charge to 4hrs, but I won't let them touch my spyder again. You can even see the threads in my new pulley which was used to mock up the tool to remove the old one. Can't make this kind of stuff up.
    Flat rate charges never anticipate anything more than typical repair with no side issues or hidden damages. Additional time gets charged when issues arise. Thing is did the charge at time and materials or offer up an estimate / quote and flat rate off of that? If costs exceeded that estimate, they would likely have revised it up.

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