Your opinion on ABS on trikes - good / bad

[bluestratos]

I have had my ABS save my butt many times, both in my 4 wheels and my Spyder.

 

[Dan_Ashley]

High speed pursuit training without ABS: I tended to smash into things that shoul not have been smashed into.

Same me training with ABS: I didn't smash into anything.

In times of panic or high adrenalin people tend to over react. Mashing down too hard on the brake pedal is a normal reaction--even for highly trained performance drivers. ABS prevents that human tendency from turning into a crash. Trike, bike, cage, and truck ABS systems react faster than a human can. By the time a human realizes he has lost traction in a skid, the ABS has already corrected the problem. Trike manufacturers that do not install ABS systems are creating needless risk for their customers.

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

I love posts like this one. I get to offer my opinion as a collision reconstructionist, and here it is. I would tell you it's a balance between what you are used to versus what is actually better and safer technology. Motorcycle riders are categorized into three groups. Novice, intermediate, and experienced drivers. What an experienced driver can do while operating a motorcycle, an novice rider can't even come close to. Intermediate drivers are as the term suggests, somewhere in the middle. The majority of us, unless we have done some track driving are intermediate drivers. It has nothing to do with how long we have ridden a bike, it is all about how far you are capable or able to push the limits of your motorcycle's capabilities. When we are younger and less aware of our own mortality and we are riding all of the time are our crotch rockets, we develop those experiences which get us close to the experienced rider categories. As most of us get older, we become wiser and take less risk, maybe even some of us switch to cruisers and tour bikes. This tends to pull us back more to the middle ground of being an intermediate rider. I am 45 years old, right smack dab in the middle, so please don't think I am favouring one age group of riders over the others. I am also not trying to say older riders are this and younger drivers are that. You just have to watch the Isle of Mann street race to recognize there are exceptions to being a senior experienced rider. So all this reading and where am I going with this? If your a senior rider, you have likely driven everything under the sun without abs. If you are one of my teenage sons, you don't want to ride a bike without abs. Just speaking to braking a lone my teenagers are novice riders on an motorcycle with conventional braking. On an abs bike the are expert riders. Ask them what threshold braking is and prepare to laugh at the answer. They don't have a clue. They just want to be able to apply the brakes as hard or as soft as the want to. They don't know the dangers of rear wheel lock up on a motorcycle like we do. If the majority of your time has been on a conventional braking motorcycle, then that what your experience is, so a three wheel motorcycle like a hd shouldn't be a new experience to you as long as you understand how the brakes work. On a three wheel HD the foot brake actuates the rear and front brakes. But not like our can ams. You still have to use the hand brake which actuates the front tire brake only. I suggest if you want to operate a three wheel HD the learning curve on the brakes is high, because it is not like any sort of braking we are used to. So to step on a bike like that most of us regardless of our years of experience riding are all novices and can't rely on our past motorcycle experience to get us through it. Two wheel conventional braking rear tire lock up is bad. Rear tire wants to lead, so the back of the bike articulates around the forks of the bike, until you let off the rear brake. Don't let up and you get high sided, let off too late the rear end of the bike articulates to the opposite side and the high side is violent and never to be forgotten or forgiven. A three wheel with conventional braking is the weirdest thing ever. Unlike your two wheel bike that requires forward motion to stay upright and the forces are gyroscopic, a three wheel motorcycle is more like a car and it's behaviour in a collision is relevant to its vertical and horizontal centre of mass. A three wheel motorcycle with conventional braking is going to spin like a top around itself during an improper braking situation, which is more likely to occurs in a panic stop situation. On dry asphalt you are more likely to stop safely if you don't hit anything first, possibly tip at the very end of the stop. On wet pavement it will be like a ride at the county fare. Your less likely to tip depending on how your loaded, but you aren't going to stop spinning until you come to a stop. So what it comes down to is how much effort are you willing to put into breaking all your old habits of braking on a two wheel non conventional or abs braking, or Spyder braking to learn how to brake a HD three wheel. Because if you fall back on you old habits and training like most of us do in a panic situation you are screwed. If you are going to ride a three wheel HD, you a likely better of if you have zero riding experience so the habits you learn are specific to that bike, or you better prepared to log a lot of travel miles and put in lots of practice time to operating it safe. I have a 2012 Spyder RTS. I looked at buying a HD three wheel. As soon as they said no ABS, I walked away. I will wait for them to come out with an ABS model. Won't trade the Spyder for anything, for some reason just fascinated by three wheel bikes. I hate to say this but when it comes to two wheels in the back I would go Honda over HD. Unfortunate for me in Canada the three wheel Honda dealer is 3 Days away and 3 wheelers can't be imported to Canada. Hope I answered your question. Sorry for being to thorough, I just wanted everyone to understand the inherent dangers in a three wheel non abs motorcycle, two wheels in the back. Stick with the Spyder for now. They are the safest production made three wheelers in my opinion. Cheers.



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[bluestratos]

Way too long of a paragraph for this old fart to follow, can you break it down and maybe just cover the main points?

Thanks

 

[Dan_Ashley]

...Stick with the Spyder for now. They are the safest production made three wheelers in my opinion. ....

thanks for your post. I learned something.

 

[Bob Denman]

Way too long of a paragraph for this old fart to follow, can you break it down and maybe just cover the main points?

Thanks

(He LIKED them...)

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

Way too long of a paragraph for this old fart to follow, can you break it down and maybe just cover the main points?

Thanks

Sorry I write a lot of technical papers and I should have used paragraphs.

Readers digest version:

If you have a three wheel HD and you hammer the rear brake pedal on dry asphalt you are not going to enjoy the ride. You will go side ways and tip, especially if you have a passenger. If it's wet pavement you will spin like a top until you run out of speed and eventually stop. This is because the rear wheel can lock up. I won't buy a three wheel HD until they get ABS.

Your Spyder is way safer. One brake application. All three brakes actuated at the proper braking percentages, no fear of lock up. Rear wheel lock up on a motorcycle in a panic situation is bad. Especially bad when one wheel does the steering and two locked wheels do the tracking. A locked tire wants to lead.

If you are an experienced two wheel rider, this is likely to be less of an issue for you, because you understand the dangers of rear wheel lock up already. And like cars before ABS you understand threshold braking. But in all honesty it hard not to hammer the rear brake when you are ****ting your pants.

If you are like me and my kids you embrace new technology are lazy and want to be able to stand on the brakes and steer and stop and not have to think of tire lock up. So you won't ever buy a bike without abs two or three wheels.

That's the majority of it.

My colleagues and I would love to have a track day of hooking the equipment up and skid testing the bag off of different spyders.


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[rayeade]

I have experienced rear wheel lock up on two Harley's I have owned but was lucky to recover without a mishap. One of the features that decided a Spyder for me is the ABS which allows me to hammer the brakes but to still be able to steer around a problem.

Sorry I write a lot of technical papers and I should have used paragraphs.

Readers digest version:

If you have a three wheel HD and you hammer the rear brake pedal on dry asphalt you are not going to enjoy the ride. You will go side ways and tip, especially if you have a passenger. If it's wet pavement you will spin like a top until you run out of speed and eventually stop. This is because the rear wheel can lock up. I won't buy a three wheel HD until they get ABS.

Your Spyder is way safer. One brake application. All three brakes actuated at the proper braking percentages, no fear of lock up. Rear wheel lock up on a motorcycle in a panic situation is bad. Especially bad when one wheel does the steering and two locked wheels do the tracking. A locked tire wants to lead.

If you are an experienced two wheel rider, this is likely to be less of an issue for you, because you understand the dangers of rear wheel lock up already. And like cars before ABS you understand threshold braking. But in all honesty it hard not to hammer the rear brake when you are ****ting your pants.

If you are like me and my kids you embrace new technology are lazy and want to be able to stand on the brakes and steer and stop and not have to think of tire lock up. So you won't ever buy a bike without abs two or three wheels.

That's the majority of it.

My colleagues and I would love to have a track day of hooking the equipment up and skid testing the bag off of different spyders.


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[Highwayman2013]

I have a 2 wheeler and a Spyder with ABS and it works well. The only time I have a problem with it is on a 4 wheeler in the snow. Seems like it is too touchy on some cars and won't allow me to stop.

 

[daveinva]

Given the state of 2014 ABS technology, any rider who says they can stop faster than ABS is lying. What they meant to say is they can stop *without engaging* the ABS, i.e. threshold braking. But if the ABS kicks in, that means you *failed* to threshold brake-- that ABS is preventing the tire locking you were unable to prevent!

I love "pure" classic bikes, but I'm also a sucker for technology that makes riding safer. Because safer = fun for me; fewer things to kill me keeps me happier longer!

But to heck with ABS-- this... THIS is the future of motorcycling:

http://www.visordown.com/road-tests...-1190-adventure-with-cornering-abs/23615.html

Imagine-- "layin' 'er down" by panic grabbing a handful of front brake in a corner could become a thing of the past...

 

[PW2013STL]

My Answer

I will not purchase any vehicle without ABS. It saved my butt on a BMW 1200LT once.

 

[jgwoods]

Variable traction

To me the real life saving properties of ABS come from dealing with real world situations where a panic stop might be necessary on a road that has great traction most everywhere, but there is a sandy spot. You stomp a foot full of brakes to slow way down but suddenly you come on to sand and the wheels will lock, but not with ABS.

We can control the amount of brake pressure but we can't control the surface traction. ABS will save your bacon when the going suddenly gets slippery.

 

[daveinva]

Oh, in addition to the KTM tech, Bosch also built this for BMW:

http://rideapart.com/2014/07/braking-corner-bmw-abs-pro-works/

:2thumbs:

 

[Flanker]

I'm OK with ABS, but if it was my choice.................there'd be an optional independent motorcycle style brake system available as well...................I'd I would have gotten it.

 

[dndfindley]

I was taught that if you are practicing your emergency braking and the ABS kicks in, you're doing it wrong.

In other words, you need to keep practicing to learn where that threshold is so you can maximize your stopping by not losing the friction zone to a point where the ABS has to kick in to regain it.


Just an observation to share. Take from it what you want.

Yeah, everyone is expert riders and should master that whole braking thingy. Even if people practiced it and got good at it, when they are confronted with a very serious emergency situation most, and that includes most of us here, will resort to hitting the brakes as hard as you can whether that is just the foot brake as on a Spyder or a car or front/rear brake combined as on a 2 wheel motorcycle. ABS is a lifesaver because one doesn't have to think - just react. Beyond that just try hitting the brakes hard as you are rounding a curve at speed. Even the real experts have a hard time with that one. Got ABS - just nail lit.

 

[dndfindley]

Sorry I write a lot of technical papers and I should have used paragraphs.

Readers digest version:

If you have a three wheel HD and you hammer the rear brake pedal on dry asphalt you are not going to enjoy the ride. You will go side ways and tip, especially if you have a passenger. If it's wet pavement you will spin like a top until you run out of speed and eventually stop. This is because the rear wheel can lock up. I won't buy a three wheel HD until they get ABS.

Your Spyder is way safer. One brake application. All three brakes actuated at the proper braking percentages, no fear of lock up. Rear wheel lock up on a motorcycle in a panic situation is bad. Especially bad when one wheel does the steering and two locked wheels do the tracking. A locked tire wants to lead.

If you are an experienced two wheel rider, this is likely to be less of an issue for you, because you understand the dangers of rear wheel lock up already. And like cars before ABS you understand threshold braking. But in all honesty it hard not to hammer the rear brake when you are ****ting your pants.

If you are like me and my kids you embrace new technology are lazy and want to be able to stand on the brakes and steer and stop and not have to think of tire lock up. So you won't ever buy a bike without abs two or three wheels.

That's the majority of it.

My colleagues and I would love to have a track day of hooking the equipment up and skid testing the bag off of different spyders.


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You nailed it. Right on.

 

[Bob Denman]

Yeah, everyone is expert riders and should master that whole braking thingy. Even if people practiced it and got good at it, when they are confronted with a very serious emergency situation most, and that includes most of us here, will resort to hitting the brakes as hard as you can whether that is just the foot brake as on a Spyder or a car or front/rear brake combined as on a 2 wheel motorcycle. ABS is a lifesaver because one doesn't have to think - just react. Beyond that just try hitting the brakes hard as you are rounding a curve at speed. Even the real experts have a hard time with that one. Got ABS - just nail lit.

:agree: While I'm no fan of technology doing everything possinle for me; I've done my best to learn what I can do with the brakes, and I'll be glad that ABS is there to help out. :thumbup:

 

[billrob71]

I really like the ABS on the bike all the other safety features are a little bit too controlling

 

[missouriboy]

ABS good.
no ABS bad.

What he said.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

I have always found ABS to be crucial whenever speed and unpredictable events can coincide.

I chose the Spyder for all the electo-nanny features. I like to ride spirited, but I don't want to have to be superman or precognizant to ride that way.