Yesterday Codes C0040 & C006C; Today Codes P061E & P0504! What's up with today's?

[gjklockhart]

OK
I removed the body panels.
No sign of mouse chewed wires.
I have a trailer wiring harness installed so I unplugged that to rule out any problems with that.
Re-installed the battery and a Brake circuit fuse.
Started the bike... blew the fuse.
Still showing codes P061E and P0504... both brake related.
I unplugged both wiring plugs going to the Brake Switch, put in another fuse, and started the engine. Of Course I got a Brake Failure message... but the fuse did not blow.
Does this indicate a problem with the Brake Light Switch? If so, is there anything I can do to test it?
This bike is still under warranty for a few more months... but the last thing I want to do is take it to my local dealer... they sell Spyders but I don't think they have anyone trained on them.
Thanks for the replies so far... but I'm still without a clue.
Greg

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

OK
I removed the body panels.
No sign of mouse chewed wires.
I have a trailer wiring harness installed so I unplugged that to rule out any problems with that.
Re-installed the battery and a Brake circuit fuse.
Started the bike... blew the fuse.
Still showing codes P061E and P0504... both brake related.
I unplugged both wiring plugs going to the Brake Switch, put in another fuse, and started the engine. Of Course I got a Brake Failure message... but the fuse did not blow.
Does this indicate a problem with the Brake Light Switch? If so, is there anything I can do to test it?
This bike is still under warranty for a few more months... but the last thing I want to do is take it to my local dealer... they sell Spyders but I don't think they have anyone trained on them.
Thanks for the replies so far... but I'm still without a clue.
Greg

What was the situation with the parking light fuse during the above testing? Does that fuse blow even when the wires are disconnected from the brake switch? Do the hazard lights work correctly with the brake switch disconnected.

If you haven't already go to canammanuals.com and buy the manual for your Spyder. The wiring diagram can help tremendously in troubleshooting.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Looking at the wiring diagram for the 2014 RT, which is probably pretty much the same for your 2017, a possibility may be a failed brake/tail light unit. Very unlikely though. I don't think anyone has reported one failing. Both circuits feed into that LED assembly and have a common ground. Do a test by disconnecting both tail lights, then connect the brake switch and replace the fuses. If nothing blows up connect the lights, one at a time, and see if the fuses blow with one of them connected. Check all the wires and connectors under the passenger seat and in the rear lights area below the trunk. There may be a shorted wire or connector there somewhere. One of the causes of a VSS error is a disconnected passenger sensor.

If you haven't done so already, go to an auto parts store and buy a supply of fuses. You're going to need them to get this all figured out!

 

[gjklockhart]

Thanks Idaho,
I don't know if the hazard lights worked or not... I didn't think to try them.
I am out of fuses... ordered a supply this evening... I'll have to wait a couple of days before I can look at it some more.
Thanks

 

[Bfromla]

OK
I removed the body panels.
No sign of mouse chewed wires.
I have a trailer wiring harness installed so I unplugged that to rule out any problems with that.
Re-installed the battery and a Brake circuit fuse.
Started the bike... blew the fuse.
Still showing codes P061E and P0504... both brake related.
I unplugged both wiring plugs going to the Brake Switch, put in another fuse, and started the engine. Of Course I got a Brake Failure message... but the fuse did not blow.
Does this indicate a problem with the Brake Light Switch? If so, is there anything I can do to test it?
This bike is still under warranty for a few more months... but the last thing I want to do is take it to my local dealer... they sell Spyders but I don't think they have anyone trained on them.
Thanks for the replies so far... but I'm still without a clue.
Greg

Under warranty:yes::yes::clap: pic a dealer let them get the headache :gaah: Sounds like you got good start on narrowing it down & there were some bad switches on some ST’s one may have gone your way.

 

[gjklockhart]

With two more fuses left I did the following:
Unplugged the connectors to the [Brake Light Switch & the Low Pressure Switch... started the engine... Hazard Lights worked and NO blown fuse in F2 (Brake Light/Hazard) (right fuse box)
I tested the BLS & LPS with an ohm meter. Both were normally open and then closed when the brake pedal was pushed... so I'm guessing they're OK.
I dis-connected both tail light assemblies... connected the just the plug going to the BLS... started the engine... pushed the brake pedal... the "VSS" icon on the display came on... "Brake Failure" message came on display... and the fuse blew.
The "Check Engine" light continues to be on no matter what.
The fuse in F1 (right fuse box) "Day Lights/Parking Lamps/Plate Lights" also blows... but I'm out of fuses and can't determine when, or what causes, it to blow.
Continue to get codes P0504 & P061E
I should have a new supply of fuses Monday or Tuesday so I can continue to trace this down.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

With two more fuses left I did the following:
Unplugged the connectors to the [Brake Light Switch & the Low Pressure Switch... started the engine... Hazard Lights worked and NO blown fuse in F2 (Brake Light/Hazard) (right fuse box)
I tested the BLS & LPS with an ohm meter. Both were normally open and then closed when the brake pedal was pushed... so I'm guessing they're OK.
I dis-connected both tail light assemblies... connected the just the plug going to the BLS... started the engine... pushed the brake pedal... the "VSS" icon on the display came on... "Brake Failure" message came on display... and the fuse blew.
The "Check Engine" light continues to be on no matter what.
The fuse in F1 (right fuse box) "Day Lights/Parking Lamps/Plate Lights" also blows... but I'm out of fuses and can't determine when, or what causes, it to blow.
Continue to get codes P0504 & P061E
I should have a new supply of fuses Monday or Tuesday so I can continue to trace this down.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg

I think you have a short in the main harness. The wires to the pillion switch and the wires to all the rear lights are in that harness. The wires to all the rear lights go through the main to cargo harness connector. The pillion wires don't. Next, disconnect the main harness to cargo harness connector under the seat and the pillion switch. In fact you'll have to do the latter because to get good access to the connectors under there you'll have to remove the seat. Then do your test again, one fuse at a time. If both fuses blow and the VSS light comes on then that's a sure bet there is a short and/or broken wires in the main harness. If it was, in spite of what you think now, rodents chewing the wires you stand a good chance of fixing it. If you can't see the damage then it'll be time to take it to the dealer because the main harness is inside the frame. Take your ohm meter and see if there is continuity from one of the BLS wires to ground. There should not be. One of the wires is +12 volts (with a good fuse ) and the other goes to the brake light.

Have you bought the service manual yet? If not you do need to do so. It's only about $30. www.canammanuals.com

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

OK, I just did some more reading in my 2014 service manual. The BLS and LPS both send signals into the ECM which then sends a signal to the VCM which produces the VSS error signal. Now I don't think the pillion switch is involved. I'm narrowing down my thinking to the conclusion you have a short to ground in the BLS wire between the switch and the tail light. As I said above, check for that with your ohm meter. Is the brake light on all the time, or only after you step on the brake?

 

[gjklockhart]

Idaho,
Yes I do have a shop manual.
I haven't seen the brake lights work since I limped it home the other day... so I don't know when they stopped working.
I'll have to wait until I get more fuses before I can do much more.
I did check both the BLS & LPS with an ohm meter and felt they were OK.
I looked at the wiring diagram and saw that the signals go to the ECM and VCM. Since the VSS light & Check Engine lights come on I'm wondering if one of them could be bad. If so, that will definitely mean a trip to a dealer.
I'll do some more testing as soon as I can.

Thank you so much for trying to help me... I appreciate it.
Greg

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I did check both the BLS & LPS with an ohm meter and felt they were OK.

You said above you checked the switches and they're good, but did you test for continuity between the brake light wire and the bike frame ground? I'm thinking you may have low resistance short, but not a dead short, to ground in the wire. That would blow the fuse. Check as many wires as you can with your VOM before you install new fuses. Since the brake lights are LED check the wires to them from connector to connector for another check of continuity. Since the fuses are blowing there obviously is a high current draw through them, most likely to ground. So looking at the wiring diagram see which wires where may be the culprit and check for shorts. If you haven't read them yet there are a lot of troubleshooting suggestions within the service parts of the manual, what connector pins should show voltages and which ones ground and resistances to ground on others.

The fact that two different fuses for two different circuits are blowing indicates an improper cross feed between them. That's one of the reasons I suggested a tail light assembly may be bad since tail light and brake light LEDs are in the same assembly.

 

[gjklockhart]

Will try to check those things the next time I'm working on it.

Thanks

 

[Joel The Biker]

I am just curious if you have a third brakelight on your trunk or any aftermarket brake lights? I have heard of some aftermarket trunk lights having shorts develop. Be sure to disconnect any aftermarket rear lights before testing again.

 

[gjklockhart]

Thanks Joel,
Yes, I do have a brake light on the trunk. That was one of the first things I disconnected... along with the trailer harness... just to eliminate those possibilities from the start.

 

[gjklockhart]

More wrinkles...
With F1 fuse pulled I can step on the brake pedal and the Day/Running Lights light up. I can also connect the tail light assemblies... step on the brake pedal... the brake lights work (no blown fuse)... and the day/running lights light up.
Obviously some crossed/shorted wires somewhere... but at least I'm eliminating some possibilities.
Thanks

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Keep at it! You'll get it figured it out eventually. Keep in mind an admonition I gave a foster son one time when he was trying to figure a physics problem. "One step at a time!" You can't rush troubleshooting, as I'm sure you are well comprehending by now! :thumbup:

 

[gjklockhart]

Well, everything is working properly at the moment... I may have found the problem... keeping my fingers crossed.

Since the day/running lights were acting weird I disconnected the plugs going to those... 4 of them... 2 fender markers and the 2 small lights above the headlights.
Power on... the brake lights worked properly. Connected the 3rd brake light... all brake lights worked properly.
Reconnected the running lights one by one and checked functions. They all worked properly and didn't cause any problems.
At this point everything seemed to be working properly... and no codes or trouble lights/messages on the dash. But I hadn't done anything to fix a problem.
Last thing to reconnect was the trailer wiring harness and test everything. When I would turn on either of the turn signals, power would somehow feed over to the brake light on the opposite side and cause it to flash with the turn signal. When I disconnected the trailer harness again that problem went away... problem returned when I connected it again.

So, at this point it's looking like the trailer wiring harness is the problem. I just can't believe it caused all these other weird symptoms, codes etc.
I sure hope it is the only problem. I've torn into this bike farther than I ever wanted to and now have to put it back together... I don't ever want to have to do that again.

Thank you Idaho and everyone else that offered suggestions. I couldn't have got this far without this forum.

Wish me luck when I'm finally able to take it for a test ride.
Greg

 

[Bfromla]

:congrats::clap::clap::2thumbs::bbq:

 

[gjklockhart]

I guess I jumped the gun thinking the trailer wiring harness was the culprit.
I had forgotten to connect it to the battery before testing it. When connected to the battery it does not cause a problem with the turn signals and brake lights... everything works as it should.

So, I've got everything back to where it was originally... but there are no codes or error messages/lights.

I doubt that I won't have the same problem again somewhere down the road. The only thing I can do is ride it and see if it acts up again.

I didn't put all of the body panels back on... thought I could ride it some without them. If I have to tear into this again it would be a time saver not having to take everything off again. And if I have to take it to a dealer I would prefer to take it without the panels on... some mechanics aren't very careful with painted parts.
Has anyone ridden with the panels off? If so, did it cause any problem?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Has anyone ridden with the panels off? If so, did it cause any problem?

No problem, other than it might scare the crap out of you to hear just how noisy all the machinery is under the tupperware! :yikes:

 

[gjklockhart]

Well I put 120 miles on the bike today. No problems.
I guess I'll put the body panels back on and just hope the problem(s) never return.
How long are the codes stored in the system?
When things get back to normal (from the corona virus) if I have an opportunity to have a technician hook it up to BUDS I will... just to see if there is anything there waiting to cause another problem.

Again, thanks for your help.
Greg