Why isnt' the Spyder more popular!

[MRH]

Bob,

I don't think Hemi is trolling. I believe he actually feels that way, and he's just someone who doesn't mince words. Like Drew says, he does have a point. ...not that his point bothers folks like you and me and most of us here. I don't necessarily agree with him that BRP is loosing sales because Spyder's don't perform like sports bikes.

Trolling, in my view, has more to do with how one expresses their ideas than what they are. I have no problem with people who don't mince words, but showing up in a new forum and insulting just about everybody there is trolling in my book.

I'm 49, and I have responsibilities that will put several people out of work if I get seriously injured. I'd have more fun on two wheels, but other considerations moderate my risk level. I'm at far less risk on three wheels than I would be on two, and I can have most of the fun of two wheels.

Could the Spyders be cooler? Yes, I think they could, and that would be a good thing. I wouldn't turn them all into three wheeled sports bikes, because different people like different kinds of bikes. I was on the fence about the looks of the F3 until I saw one in person, and now I'm not. I think it will be better accepted than any other Spyder by those who generally ride on two wheels.

Spyders were not made to keep up with what a sports bike can do in the twisties. Three wheels can never compete with two at the current level of technology, so, ironically, of all the models of Spyders the RS's have the least ability to match their two wheeled counterparts in terms of performance. (I don't ride an RS, so please let me know if I've got that wrong.) But, hey, wouldn't it be better if they discontinued all of the other models because they subtract from the cool factor of an RS? That would absolutely increase their sales!

While we're at it, let's figure out which flavor of ice cream this guy prefers and take the rest out of production.

I've had people come to my photography business on a promotion who didn't actually want my style of photography - it never ends well for any of us. How could it?

I tend to like this forum because, for the most part, the conversations are productive and we can disagree without getting personal. I'd very much like to see this guy go away. He will never be happy on a Spyder, and will think of himself as "slumming" here.

 

[Grandpa Pete]

I thought BRP classified our beloved Spyder's as Roadsters???

 

[DrewNJ]

Spyders were not made to keep up with what a sports bike can do in the twisties. Three wheels can never compete with two at the current level of technology, so, ironically, of all the models of Spyders the RS's have the least ability to match their two wheeled counterparts in terms of performance. (I don't ride an RS, so please let me know if I've got that wrong.)

Yep, you've got that wrong.
It has to do with riding position. The more you are on your ass with your feet out in front of you, generally the less control you have and the more dependent on the machine you are. Your weight is concentrated directly on the seat.

Think of a sport bike riding position where your body weight is mainly on your legs and arms with your knees being a large tool for control of your body. Body position and control is a HUGE part of riding aggressively and maintaining control.

 

[Bob Denman]

Right or wrong; none of the Spyders have been designed, or marketed for; the aggressive style of riding, to which you refer.

 

[DrewNJ]

And the definition of a troll is someone who posts, but has nothing useful or benificial to add to the conversation or discussion. Typically, done to stir the pot, or to act as a cheerleader to others......and yes, there are a lot of them here....lol
They are easy to spot when there is an open disagreement between members.

 

[DrewNJ]

Right or wrong; none of the Spyders have been designed, or marketed for; the aggressive style of riding, to which you refer.

Very true! And really it's a shame.....

 

[MRH]

Yep, you've got that wrong.
It has to do with riding position. The more you are on your ass with your feet out in front of you, generally the less control you have and the more dependent on the machine you are. Your weight is concentrated directly on the seat.

Think of a sport bike riding position where your body weight is mainly on your legs and arms with your knees being a large tool for control of your body. Body position and control is a HUGE part of riding aggressively and maintaining control.

I know that an aggressive riding style on an RS can keep up with a lot of bikes, but can you manage the 100mph average speeds that some of the sport bike groups I know of transverse our canyons at?

I know riding style can do a lot, but my understanding is that the limits of sports bikes are just significantly higher than those possible on three wheels. For many people, they just won't ever ride fast enough to reach those limits, but for those who choose to I don't think our top speeds can compete with those of a sports bike. I haven't heard of Spyders going much over 120mp, but that isn't anywhere near the limits of a 200mph+ Ducati.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I am curious what the performance limits are on a Spyder.

 

[DrewNJ]

I wouldn't say it's a thread hijack at all, the topic was brought up.
The spyder can corner and be ridden at a pace to keep up with many sportbikes....for the most part. However, it's going to be limited for sure. It takes more effort and power to ride a spyder hard vs 2 wheels. Mainly because you do have to work your body position and machine harder to get the most out of the handling. Also, as you mentioned they are at a very significant power disadvantage and are never going to keep up, up top flat out.
This can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage though. It's easy to get yourself in trouble on a sportbike, especially a superbike. However, you really have to work hard to get yourself in trouble on the spyder, in regards to power and braking. They are much more forgiving.

 

[MRH]

I wouldn't say it's a thread hijack at all, the topic was brought up.
The spyder can corner and be ridden at a pace to keep up with many sportbikes....for the most part. However, it's going to be limited for sure. It takes more effort and power to ride a spyder hard vs 2 wheels. Mainly because you do have to work your body position and machine harder to get the most out of the handling. Also, as you mentioned they are at a very significant power disadvantage and are never going to keep up, up top flat out.
This can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage though. It's easy to get yourself in trouble on a sportbike, especially a superbike. However, you really have to work hard to get yourself in trouble on the spyder, in regards to power and braking. They are much more forgiving.

That's largely the way I had understood the situation to begin with. The RS is more limited on the higher end, and is significantly safer. There are groups we can never keep up with, but the trade off may end up being an extended lifespan for the rider.

 

[DrewNJ]

That's largely the way I had understood the situation to begin with. The RS is more limited on the higher end, and is significantly safer. There are groups we can never keep up with, but the trade off may end up being an extended lifespan for the rider.

Very true.
To give you an example, I'm not any type of expert but have spent a lot of time on bikes. When riding the spyder hard on the same set of straights and twisties as I used to ride my RSV. I can ride just as quick from the same A to B, can still keep up with the same guys i did before, but I'm much more exhausted on the spyder and feel like I've really wrung the machine out too.
My RSV was much more effortless but scarier too. Larger pucker factor...

No doubt a better rider could do better and increase the gap. But like Bob said, that's really not what they were designed or marketed for. Considerably more power and user controllable nanny functions would really make them interesting.

 

[cuznjohn]

i have not read all the posts, so that being said my guess is 1,,, no one wants to face the fact that we no longer can ride two wheels feeling safe. 2,,, there are die hard Harley people, and now that Harley has a 3 wheel bike out they will stick to Harley's . and 3,,, the same has to be said about Honda people. the wing is a great bike, my 08 was fantastic, and there are so many trike kits out there for them so people just go with the Honda

 

[robmorg]

i have not read all the posts, so that being said my guess is 1,,, no one wants to face the fact that we no longer can ride two wheels feeling safe. 2,,, there are die hard Harley people, and now that Harley has a 3 wheel bike out they will stick to Harley's . and 3,,, the same has to be said about Honda people. the wing is a great bike, my 08 was fantastic, and there are so many trike kits out there for them so people just go with the Honda

...except that, despite their bad rap among the "true biker crowd", Spyders are much more fun than conventional trikes in many ways. You cannot ride a conventional trike as aggressively as you can a Spyder. And I would guess you cannot get that same "feel of the road" in the twisties and turns, that you can on a Spyder. (When I say "aggressively", I'm not talking about riding it like a crotch rocket. But when I was riding big cruisers, I used to like to "scrape the floorboards" quite a bit.)

 

[robmorg]

Trolling, in my view, has more to do with how one expresses their ideas than what they are. I have no problem with people who don't mince words, but showing up in a new forum and insulting just about everybody there is trolling in my book...

Hmm. Well, I didn't really take that from his post. If you consider the possibility that he's not just trying to be a jerk, and that he was only stating his true feelings, then there was nothing much in what he posted to be insulted about - even though most of us wouldn't agree with him.

That said, I certainly am not defending his argument. As to the argument itself, I entirely agree with your point of view. I'm merely defending his right to express his controversial opinion without being labeled a troll. I WILL agree that he could have made the same point a bit less abrasively. :sour:

 

[Bob Denman]

When riding the spyder hard on the same set of straights and twisties as I used to ride my RSV. I can ride just as quick from the same A to B, can still keep up with the same guys i did before, but I'm much more exhausted on the spyder and feel like I've really wrung the machine out too.
Considerably more power and user controllable nanny functions would really make them interesting.

It's the steering effort, that has added the most to your labors... With a "leaner", Just tap the bars, and give it the "one cheek tweak", and you're off in a new direction...

Drew,
You're "kind of" new here.
Did you know that BRP came within a whisker of pulling shelving the Spyder? :shocked: It wasn't until Bosch got on board with the VSS, that it was deemed a marketable project.
Not everybody that straps on a helmet is capable of running the Isle of Man... most folks just want to relax and enjoy a nice relaxing ride. The Spyder has been built with that market in mind.
The test pilots that originally rode them without VSS, likened them to "Lawn Darts" at speed. :yikes:
We've got a regular contributor in here who was one of those riders; I hope that he'll chime in...
...If he's not snowmobiling!
BRP won't offer a programmable Nanny because their Lawyers would all swallow their tongues, and go into shock... The potential for lawsuits would be horrible...
...Because a rider like me, would "dumb down" Nanny, and promptly auger into something solid...
How would THAT help their popularity?? :dontknow:

 

[wyliec]

When I see someone throwing insults to a whole group of people that they don't know, I just think their mother hasn't grounded them lately or has just cut them off from breast feeding.:dontknow:

 

[Bob Denman]

 

[DrewNJ]

I disagree, they do something similar with the skis currently with different keys. It would be an easy system to adapt to the spyder. Also, many performance machines around today have user selectable programing. BRP has already taken the first step in 14' where they have loosened things up a bit. We've also got some non-brp approved things in the works thanks to a good friend from down under.....[emoji106] [emoji6] [emoji87] that likely will only see a few users.
While totally disabling the system is not ideal for most people, I can assure you that it is not like a "lawn dart" for a rider with any common sense and self control. This I know first hand. Especially in otherwise stock configuration/power.

 

[DrewNJ]

You don't hear about any other trike rider screaming they need VSS because their machines are unrideable. And that's mostly single front wheel trikes that historically have always handled like crap!

 

[jaherbst]

Hemi's got a point. What cracks me up though, is a lot of the old timers jumping from their full blown touring RT with all the storage, big windshield, and comfy seats to an F3 with none of that, only to try to figure out how to add baggage, bigger shield, etc etc.
Old people trying to feel young again?

I think your going to see a lot of farkled out used 15' f3 machines for sale over the next year or 2 as those same old people jump back to an RT.

Could be some truth here. Nothing like comfort after the testosterone dies down!

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

:shocked:

Here's someone with all of 5 posts, and already trying to alienate everyone...

Hey "Mister Expert", How many miles have you actually ridden one?

What is he doing on this site anyway. Go join a "Crotch Rocket" site. And for Pete's sake get some intense counseling. He appears to be a serial Grandma Grandpa Hater.

Jack