Why doesn't BRP design a stronger Anti-roll bar?

[PMK]

The Spyder is Canadian. Their highway speeds are much lower there than the USA. I found it absolutely miserable driving in Canada. Maybe that is why? ��

FWIW, here on the East Coast of Florida, BRP has a private test facility. Must be for evaluating Spyders at USA speeds.

Thoasag, others mentioned the proverbial engineering design rider. Spyders, and even motorcycles utilize this proverbial design rider to establish not only the ergonomics to fit the average rider, but also determine suspension settings. Suspension settings, such as damper and spring selections are a portion of this. On the front of the Spyder, the swaybar is a portion of the suspension settings.

Since the Spyder is designed around the proverbial rider, and the Spyder is sold to riders who are lightweight, or heavy, or short, or tall, and some ride solo while others ride two up, the OEM swaybar is an engineering “best compromise”.

The engineers also understand that increasing swaybar stiffness can reduce front grip unless other parameters are changed. Therefore, the lighter weight rider, on a firmer swaybar, without altering other suspension settings, will have less front grip, possibly resulting in understeer. The heavier rider, while they may experience additional chassis roll, will retain the engineered front grip.

Understand also, the dynamics of a swaybar couples the left and right suspension. This coupling, with an increased firmness to the swaybar, increases spring rate during a single wheel front suspension event. In simple terms, during a single wheel suspension event, the increased swaybar rate can be felt as harshness.

I have had lighter rider's comment that they preferred the OEM swaybar for its softer feel on single wheel suspension events; and found the softer swaybar more suited to their lighter weight overall, including controlling chassis lean or roll. These lighter riders ran OEM stock front shocks and springs.

 

[thoasag]

PMK, in describing a "single (front) wheel suspension event" elaborates on the well known negative which is experienced with a stronger anti-roll bar and which I mentioned in an earlier post. He also mentions something which I suspected and had hoped that my 'simple question' would have resulted in 'simple answers' to which is the reduction in lateral traction of the inside wheel during a turn. This can be expected to be of less concern with four wheels vehicles which have some roll resistance from their rear wheels and increased inertial resistance resulting from their greater mass. The Spyder does not have either of these and I was hoping for comments on this and, possibly other effects from those who have made the change. Thank you PMK.

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

If memory serves, I do not recall a Spyder rolling over amd being reported.

That's because no one has tried hard enough yet!:joke:

 

[Peter Aawen]

..... If memory serves, I do not recall a Spyder rolling over and being reported. .....

That's because no one has tried hard enough yet!:joke:

It might be juuust a little 'off topic' now that everyone's fairly well settled on the different meanings of 'roll bars' & 'sway bars' but actually, I'm pretty sure that there's been at least Three (3) 'rolled Spyders' reported here on the Forum pages, altho I'll happily stand corrected if I'm wrong with the number... nojoke .I reckon you might even recall these being reported when I remind you of them...

1. There was one fella playing at speed in Reverse gear, possibly in the snow (?), and his bosses (?) Spyder ended up rolled;
2. there was another guy who pulled onto the road well in front of on-coming traffic and then got pushed up onto the median strip by a rapidly accelerating car that ran into him from behind, his Spyder ended up rolled; and
3. there was one where the owner's son sat on it while it was running & in gear, then 'played' with the throttle, taking off down the drive & across the (busy with traffic) road, and that Spyder ended up rolled;
4. there may have even been a few more, but I can't remember enough about them to find any of those threads here... :shocked:

And less the Ryker Ryders feel left out, there's always that guy who decided to pretend his Ryker was a skateboard & took to the bowls & dips of a skate park - his Ryker ended up rolled too!! :banghead:

So it has happened, and it can be done, if you only try hard enough, or something else comes into play!

 

[BajaRon]

It might be juuust a little 'off topic' now that everyone's fairly well settled on the different meanings of 'roll bars' & 'sway bars' but actually, I'm pretty sure that there's been at least Three (3) 'rolled Spyders' reported here on the Forum pages, altho I'll happily stand corrected if I'm wrong with the number... nojoke .I reckon you might even recall these being reported when I remind you of them...

1. There was one fella playing at speed in Reverse gear, possibly in the snow (?), and his bosses (?) Spyder ended up rolled;
2. there was another guy who pulled onto the road well in front of on-coming traffic and then got pushed up onto the median strip by a rapidly accelerating car that ran into him from behind, his Spyder ended up rolled; and
3. there was one where the owner's son sat on it while it was running & in gear, then 'played' with the throttle, taking off down the drive & across the (busy with traffic) road, and that Spyder ended up rolled;
4. there may have even been a few more, but I can't remember enough about them to find any of those threads here... :shocked:

And less the Ryker Ryders feel left out, there's always that guy who decided to pretend his Ryker was a skateboard & took to the bowls & dips of a skate park - his Ryker ended up rolled too!! :banghead:

So it has happened, and it can be done, if you only try hard enough, or something else comes into play!

I also remember a rider who got into an oil slick from a blown engine or transmission on the freeway. He ended up drifting sideways in the oil and rolled when he hit dry pavement. All of these cited events were either self induced stupidity or unavoidable and not the operator's fault. But altogether miniscule compared to 2 wheels low and high siding, which is more common than people realize.

 

[Allen42]

To answer the thread title only: I'm pretty sure that Ron has a group of active lobbyists that wine and dine and take BRP engineers on expensive vacations quarterly to have them not do this, so that 3rd party solutions are necessary! :yikes: :joke:

j/k j/k j/k

 

[BajaRon]

PMK, in describing a "single (front) wheel suspension event" elaborates on the well known negative which is experienced with a stronger anti-roll bar and which I mentioned in an earlier post. He also mentions something which I suspected and had hoped that my 'simple question' would have resulted in 'simple answers' to which is the reduction in lateral traction of the inside wheel during a turn. This can be expected to be of less concern with four wheels vehicles which have some roll resistance from their rear wheels and increased inertial resistance resulting from their greater mass. The Spyder does not have either of these and I was hoping for comments on this and, possibly other effects from those who have made the change. Thank you PMK.

I do not understand the physics or logic in this statement. The inside tire will experience less and less pressure (and therefore reduced traction with the pavement surface) as turn intensity increases. To the point where the inside tire can lift completely off the pavement. How does this translate into a 'Reduction In Lateral Traction' with an improved sway bar system which will reduce inside tire lift and increase inside tire road surface contact? While at the same time reduce excessive outside tire force which works to roll that tire under and exceed its traction ability?

Speculation is a wonderful thing. I do it all the time. But if you're really looking for answers here. Simply ride a Spyder with an upgraded sway bar. I am confident that this would clear everything up for you.

 

[thoasag]

I was referring to the fact that a three wheeled vehicle of the Spyder type offers no counteracting stability from the rear suspension and much less from the inertial mass than that which a four wheel vehicle does and that this allows the inside front suspension in a turn to raise more than it would with four wheels. That raising of the inside suspension results in lower tire to road surface contact pressure and thus lower lateral traction from that wheel.

 

[Peteoz]

I wouldn’t bother, Ron... The original questions of “why doesn’t BRP design a stronger bar” and “what are the negatives to a stronger bar” have been answered several times above and have either been ignored or disbelieved. If the OP wants further info, there is an easy solution that is available, and used by, most members, which is - conduct a search on historical posts, as this question has been asked and answered many, many times. However, I would definitely not search under “roll bar” as all these threads are headed by, or contain, the Spyder terminology of “sway” or “anti-sway” bar.

Pete

 

[BajaRon]

I wouldn’t bother, Ron... The original questions of “why doesn’t BRP design a stronger bar” and “what are the negatives to a stronger bar” have been answered several times above and have either been ignored or disbelieved. If the OP wants further info, there is an easy solution that is available, and used by, most members, which is - conduct a search on historical posts, as this question has been asked and answered many, many times. However, I would definitely not search under “roll bar” as all these threads are headed by, or contain, the Spyder terminology of “sway” or “anti-sway” bar.

Pete

Good advice. Sometimes I try too hard.

 

[2dogs]

LOL, I thought I was on the wrong website again. I've had many toys over the years and many of them had sway bars. But the scariest ones had rollbars. Thank GOD because I'm still here to talk about it. Big big difference between the two bars, and then there are beer bars, with a lot of sway in them too.