What experiences have you had with Lithium Batteries?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.

Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike hyea:

 

[BajaRon]

Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike hyea:

I think he is referring to charge cycles. So you'd get just 1 charge cycle per ride (start to stop. Ignition on to ignition off). It would not count an additional cycle until the charger (whether it be a static based or vehicle charging system) was disconnected/turned off and restarted again.Though I don't think static lithium battery chargers have a 'Trickle Charge' cycle. If this is true, there would be an automatic shut down when full charge is reached. If the charged came back on at some point, another charge cycle would be added to the count.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.

Interesting ….. if this is accurate, that number is must be hugh. Doesn't the alternator ( or magneto ) recharge the battery almost constantly ????? ………… or am I missing something ……. Mike hyea:

I think he is referring to charge cycles. So you'd get just 1 charge cycle per ride (start to stop. Ignition on to ignition off). It would not count an additional cycle until the charger (whether it be a static based or vehicle charging system) was disconnected/turned off and restarted again.Though I don't think static lithium battery chargers have a 'Trickle Charge' cycle. If this is true, there would be an automatic shut down when full charge is reached. If the charged came back on at some point, another charge cycle would be added to the count.

Did we ever get this sorted out ?
I've looked for references to a recharge cycle counter on the Lithium Polymer batteries, but can't find any.
This could be true, but as stated, that means you could be out in Utah one day, and start your Spyder at camp and Boom.....No warning, No battery.
Shouldn't there be some type of warning associated with that ? Sort of like when you start getting low on gas ?
I'm asking because I'm liking the possibility of the LiPo battery.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did we ever get this sorted out ?
I've looked for references to a recharge cycle counter on the Lithium Polymer batteries, but can't find any.
This could be true, but as stated, that means you could be out in Utah one day, and start your Spyder at camp and Boom.....No warning, No battery.
Shouldn't there be some type of warning associated with that ? Sort of like when you start getting low on gas ?
I'm asking because I'm liking the possibility of the LiPo battery.

I just did some searching. Here is a quote from Super B batteries web site FAQ page. https://www.super-b.com/en/faq

A Battery Management System is necessary for control and protection during discharge and charging. The BMS provides CAN bus communication of battery status ‘state of charge’ and alarms etc. It may also be used without CAN bus interface with just basic analog inputs and outputs for simpler systems.

In another answer they say the charging system must be modified. What that all means is a good question. They sell motorcycle batteries but essentially have no information what, if anything, you need to to do to use a LiPo battery in a motorcycle.

This page, https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/, says Battery Management System built in. They also state 3000 - 5000 cycles. But what constitutes a cycle? :dontknow:

Here's another quote from https://antigravitybatteries.com/help-center/faq/lithium-starter-batteries/#electrical-charging

Our lithium batteries will operate perfectly fine with the stock charging system in most motorcycles, powersports vehicles and automobiles. Where the problem can occur is when charging the battery with a standalone charger. Additionally if you have an aftermarket charging system on your vehicle, note that we cannot warranty the battery for use with aftermarket charging systems due to the fact that we do not test with these and some of these are not regulated as strictly as a stock/standard system found in a motorcycle, powersports vehicle or automobile.

To sum it up LiPo require special charging systems but they're built into the battery. There is a limit to how many times any Li-on battery can be charged. Beyond that the web sites are scant on information just as you say.

 

[Sputter]

I bought into the Lithium ION Kool Aid when I had left my Ducati for about a year no charging, and it started right up. The Shorai battery is OE in my Ducati. I have since put a 6 volt in my 1981 Honda C70 with electric start no problems. I have one waiting to go in my 1959 Harley FLH which has been converted to 12 volt but is a generator system, shall see how that works out. I also have one ready to go into my 2003 Harley sportster. They weigh next to nothing, are smaller than OE, can get different sizes though. I get mine and chargers for Shorai from Battery Mart. I will change to them as I replace in all my bikes. The Shorai comes with sticky foam to take up excess space in battery compartment. The only thing is they hibernate a bit in coooold weather and sometimes need to turn lights on to wake them up. Who rides in cold anyway?

 

[Mikey]

I bought into the Lithium IRON Kool Aid when I had left my Ducati for about a year no charging, and it started right up. The Shorai battery is OE in my Ducati. I have since put a 6 volt in my 1981 Honda C70 with electric start no problems. I have one waiting to go in my 1959 Harley FLH which has been converted to 12 volt but is a generator system, shall see how that works out. I also have one ready to go into my 2003 Harley sportster. They weigh next to nothing, are smaller than OE, can get different sizes though. I get mine and chargers for Shorai from Battery Mart. I will change to them as I replace in all my bikes. The Shorai comes with sticky foam to take up excess space in battery compartment. The only thing is they hibernate a bit in coooold weather and sometimes need to turn lights on to wake them up. Who rides in cold anyway?

When do you find time to ride all those nice bikes!!!:yikes:

 

[Sputter]

When do you find time to ride all those nice bikes!!!:yikes:

I don't! I put about 140 miles on the Ducati, 20 miles on The Honda C70, 90 miles on the Harley sportster and 110 miles on my Spyder approximately this year. I have a 2014 Harley Fatboy that has 42 total miles on it, 59 FLH has 150 miles since restoration over 15 years ago. my 2013 Harley Road glide has under 3000 miles. I need to thin out the herd! Wasn't much decent weather this year and I have been under the weather.

 

[larryd]

There is a saying; "He who dies with the most toys is the winner" Your in the running...

I too was in the "running"...But In the last two years my herd got thinned out significantly...

Old age, along with aches & pains have started to take over...

Fortunately I still get up everyday and do "what I want," "if I want," & "how I want"...

ENJOY EVERYDAY :2thumbs:

 

[Sputter]

There is a saying; "He who dies with the most toys is the winner" Your in the running...

I too was in the "running"...But In the last two years my herd got thinned out significantly...

Old age, along with aches & pains have started to take over...

Fortunately I still get up everyday and do "what I want," "if I want," & "how I want"...

ENJOY EVERYDAY :2thumbs:

I am right there with you! I am ready to thin out, too much work and $$ to take care of them. Almost easier to get a girlfriend, NAAAAAAAA!!:roflblack:

 

[BajaRon]

I am right there with you! I am ready to thin out, too much work and $$ to take care of them. Almost easier to get a girlfriend, NAAAAAAAA!!:roflblack:

I'd just take the 'Thin' if I could get it. Was a time I was thin no matter what. Now, it seems, I'm FAT no matter what! What happened?

 

[Sputter]

I'd just take the 'Thin' if I could get it. Was a time I was thin no matter what. Now, it seems, I'm FAT no matter what! What happened?

We don't go there Ron:bbq:

 

[IdleUp]

Lion batteries have a built-in recharge counter with a limit on the number of recharges. When it's reached, no more charging. That may be what you have encountered. I don't know if Lion vehicle batteries have the same thing but I suspect they do.

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

 

[AZ4U2C]

...The battery in my RT surprised me by failing with no warning. I could not quickly find a LiIon in the stores and I didn't want to wait for it to come from Amazon. I purchased a Duracell AGM at Batteries + Bulbs.

As I understand it, this is the way that LiIon batteries typically fail – with little or no warning.
This is just about a non-starter (no pun intended) for me.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

It looks like things have evolved over the past 15 to 20 years. Google didn't come up with any hits to support my assertion. What I can tell you is there definitely was a limit on the number of recharge cycles permitted on the battery in the IBM Thinkpad laptop I had about 15 years ago. The battery app would show how many recharges had been given the battery and how many were left. The user manual explained the existence of the limit on number of recharges.

 

[EdMat]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

I know some of my drone batteries had the battery counting charge cycles and would not charge after x,xxx charges, don't remember the number now. Think a couple of my Dell laptops did the same.

 

[SamSpade66]

Something has to turn the alternator in order to generate electricity. In a gas engine vehicle it's the engine that does that. An all electric like the Tesla has no engine to turn the alternator.

Umm, I'm pretty sure the tesla motor turns the drive wheels so it could probably turn an alternator! Turning an alternator is the least of the problems!

 

[Hypurone]

I have had a Shorai in mine for about 5yrs now. I use a Deltran Tender on it (not specific to Li, and Deltran has stated their Tenders are up to the task for LiFePo and Li) and have had ZERO problems with it. My rides have several starts in them (usually about 6 starts) as I have to stop often for pain reasons...

The PRIMARY thing about LiFePo or Li-Ion is the "cell balance" and what all the chatter about a specific charger is around. Although this is primarily the BMS's job within the battery, a specific charger is better able to work with that system to discharge any higher cells and then charge up the lower cells so you have an even charge across ALL cells and at optimum charge.... NOTE: some chargers only do this "maintenance" cycle when specifically selected, otherwise it is a basic "Tender"....

 

[RickWB]

I have 2, 100 amp l2 volt lithium batteries in my travel trailer. They have a 10 year warranty, so considerably better than lead acid or AGM. Charge source for them is the truck alternator (which I doubt is set up for lithium batteries), my on board converter, which has a setting for lithium, and my roof mounted solar panel, with a setting on the charge controller for lithium. Lithium charges to over 14 volts, so greater than the output of the truck alternator, but assisted by roof solar, or converter when plugged in.

I would think a battery tender for lithium batteries would in essence be similar to the on board inverter in the trailer, which would 'top-off' the batteries.

 

[Hypurone]

I have 2, 100 amp l2 volt lithium batteries in my travel trailer. They have a 10 year warranty, so considerably better than lead acid or AGM. Charge source for them is the truck alternator (which I doubt is set up for lithium batteries), my on board converter, which has a setting for lithium, and my roof mounted solar panel, with a setting on the charge controller for lithium. Lithium charges to over 14 volts, so greater than the output of the truck alternator, but assisted by roof solar, or converter when plugged in.

I would think a battery tender for lithium batteries would in essence be similar to the on board inverter in the trailer, which would 'top-off' the batteries.

Modern Alternators/regulators easily charge to 14.4 and even higher on some systems IF the batteries within the system are rated for it. I have seen output at 15.2 on my 2019 Chevy Blazer when running heated seats, heated steering wheel, HVAC etc... If your batteries can "accept" the charge without high resistance to it, then the charging system will output it. It will drop as resistance in the batteries rise...

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Umm, I'm pretty sure the tesla motor turns the drive wheels so it could probably turn an alternator! Turning an alternator is the least of the problems!

You could, but why would you? You'd simply be using electricity from one on-board source, the battery, to generate electricity to be used in some other on-board device.