What brand of oil do you use?

[OldCowboy]

I am anew spyder owner. I have been on a Goldwing for 7 years and other cycles for more. It is my understanding from my dealer that fully synthetic oils are not for the spyder due to clutch slippage. Did you guys decide to use the synthetics on your own, or did your dealers OK them. I really like and use synthetics in everything else I have.

Tallow98

The question is not full synthetic or not. The question is whether the oil is JASO MA-2 compliant. The synthetic oils made for automobiles have too many friction reducers for motorcycles. JASO MA-2 compliant oils do not have those friction reducers.

 

[NancysToy]

I am anew spyder owner. I have been on a Goldwing for 7 years and other cycles for more. It is my understanding from my dealer that fully synthetic oils are not for the spyder due to clutch slippage. Did you guys decide to use the synthetics on your own, or did your dealers OK them. I really like and use synthetics in everything else I have.

Tallow98

BRP OK's the use of full synthetic oils as long as they are motorcycle oils and do not carry an API SM classification. Look in your owners' manual for verification. I'd take that a step further and recommend that any full synthetic meet the JASO MA-2 classification, which is the most stringent regarding clutch slippage.

 

[OldCowboy]

.....Oil threads are always among the most popular on any motor vehicle forum, and I'm one of the most guilty in finding these interesting and absorbing, even though I sincerely doubt that there are any large differences in oils made by established oil companies that are appropriately rated for the type of vehicle they are being used in. I've changed the oil in my own autos and motorcycles for 57 and 45 years respectively (carefully observing the manufacturers recommendations), these consisting of dozens of vehicles, and in all those years I have not once experienced an oil related failure of any sort. So FWIW, it seems to me that we get too involved in this oil being better that that one, etc. etc. However, in saying that I do not mean to claim that meeting the rating standards set by a vehicle manufacturer are unimportant. Actually, I believe compliance with the ratings is much more important than the brand of oil. Just my 2 cents worth.

Mike
www.rtwrider.net

:agree: I've spent a lot of time on Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php). In the opinion of many tribologists, today's oils are so good that even non-synthetic oils will protect engines for several hundred thousand miles, if changed according to the vehicle manufacturers recommendations. It is true that synthetic blends protect better in laboratory tests and full synthetic oils protect even better. But in real world applications, any oil meeting the vehicle manufactures recommendation will protect for the life of the engine.

The real advantage of Amsoil is that its additive package is stouter than most and this allows you to extend drain intervals. IMO, extending drain intervals in a vehicle under warranty is not a good idea as the vehicle manufacturer is liable to jump on this and deny a warranty claim. It is then up to you to prove them wrong in court.

 

[beanoil]

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf

There is a lot of hoo-hah about JASO MA, MA-1, MA-2, and MB. There is a lot of parroting about AmSoil being the best, or only run BRP, or Castrol is the same and off the shelf. Bottom line, as an owner, run what gives you peace of mind. If you choose BRP, fine. If you choose AmSoil, fine. But manage by the facts, folks. Get a used oil analysis done. It's cheap, it tells you how the oil is holding up, and can help predict wear trends. And don't fall for the " I change my oil at 9000 miles because I run Brand X". Oil holds dirt and soot in suspension. Wear happens when the dirt particles are thicker than the oil film, and the oil film gets thinner over time. No matter what oil, it is being loaded with contaminates, and needs to be replaced at the proper interval. I've had a lot of bikes in 53 years. Veronica, my Spyder, is number 52 if I've counted correctly. I've changed a lot of oil, used a lot of brands. Clutches slip when the plates are worn and/or the springs are sacked out. I've just never experienced it any other way. Back in the day, Castrol 20w50 auto oil was the ticket for Honda in line fours. Forever, Suzuki 10w40 factory oil was nothing but Shell's Rotella T packaged in those bottles. (Yep, I have personally seen the packaging line at what used to be the Shell plant in Wood River, IL). I've used hundreds of gallons of Mobil 1 15w50 in wet clutch bikes, both the older red cap formula, and the new silver cap EP version. I currently have Schaeffer 5w50 in a GSXR that regularly sees red line, and also has several drag strip passes on it. Their slug of MicronMoly and Penetro have zero effect on the clutch, but they are doing a great job of protecting the cams and bearings. I'm currently running Liqui-Moly oil from Germany in Veronica... 100 dollars got me 15 liters of the stuff delivered to my door. But when the time comes and I'm out of the LM, I'll likely switch to Mobil 15w50 auto oil, and call it a day. The same engine in the Aprilia bike specs 15w50, and based on past experience, and many UOA to back it up, the stuff is well suited to hot running, does an incredible job of protecting valve trains, and is wet clutch friendly, even if Mobil didn't test for it. Read the link above... the JASO specs overlap quite a bit between MA, and MA-1 and 2. Then decide if you need a 16 dollar a quart oil to feel good.

 

[Bad Dog6]

BRP can not deny warranty coverage based on the use of extended drain oil change intervals unless they can prove that that was the cause of the failure.. That is Federal Law covered by the Magneson moss Act. If a company makes a warranty based on the use of a specific oil, they have to provide the oil for free.. Also Federal Law and BRP knows all about that as AMSOIL took them to task over it with some of their other products.


In any case , AMSOIL has a limited warranty which covers your repairs should their oil be proven to be the cause of your failure..

Different issue: Scotty's chart shows automobile oils which vary in quality but also contain "Friction Modifiers". A wet clutches worst enemy.. Do not use any oil, petroleum or synthetic that is not Motorcle wet clutch rated. JASO MA/MA2. I also wonder about BRP oils. No JASO or any other kind of info printed on their labels.. I am sure they are ok to use or they wouldn't sell it..

My guess is, and I could be wrong, is that BRP OILS are made by the lowest bidder. Should the contract change hands it is reasonable to assume that the quality could Change also necessitating a reprint of the labels.. Expensive.

For me and my money, if it doesn't have the JASO, ISO, OR SAE information on the label, it doesn't go in any of my motors. I am sure the BRP oils are fine for the average individual but if you are meticulous about your oils, there are a lot better products out there.

I know a lot of folks reading this are going to poo poo a lot of what I say as I am the AMSOIL site sponsor. Let me say that there are a lot of reasons I became involved in AMSOIL. To many to mention here. A couple of reasons: The oils are formulated in Superior WI by a family owned business and shipped to your front door. I have seem numerous ASTM test comparisons over the years and nothing touches the quality of AMSOIL.

Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1 and the usual versions of Amsoil are not JASO MA-2 compliant. These are automobile engine oils and are not for use in motorcycles.

Castrol Power RS Racing 4T oil is a full synthetic oil available in 5W40, 10W40 and 10W50 weights and is rated JASO MA-2 compliant ((http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9045375&contentId=7079435)

Amsoil MCFQT is a full synthetic 10W40 oil which is JASO MA-2 compliant. It's probably superior to the other MA-2 complaint oils. I like Amsoil. I use it for extended change intervals in my car and truck, both of which are out of warranty. I'm always concerned about extended change intervals while a vehicle is under warranty. If you have an engine or transmission problem and BRP sees you've been using extended drain intervals they are liable to deny your warranty claim.

 

[NancysToy]

It was not my chart, it was someone else that posted it. Ron & I merely quoted it to warn them that those oils were not suitable.

 

[willey]

I have been around this old world for 73 years and have never seen this much information on oils.My pappy always said,if you want to know something,you have to ask the people who know.You have to love this site and the information you recive.These guys know their stuff.Thanks!!

 

[OldCowboy]

BRP can not deny warranty coverage based on the use of extended drain oil change intervals unless they can prove that that was the cause of the failure.. That is Federal Law covered by the Magneson moss Act. If a company makes a warranty based on the use of a specific oil, they have to provide the oil for free.. Also Federal Law and BRP knows all about that as AMSOIL took them to task over it with some of their other products.


In any case , AMSOIL has a limited warranty which covers your repairs should their oil be proven to be the cause of your failure..

I think you're laboring under a couple of misconceptions. BRP does not require a specific oil. Simply use any oil which is not API SM, and preferably one which is also JASO MA-2. However, BRP does require that the oil be changed every 4600 miles or 7500 KM. If you extend that interval by a significant amount, they may deny your warranty claim.

Let's talk about the Magneson-Moss Act and warranties. If a manufacturer denies a warranty claim because you have failed to follow their recommended maintenance schedule, the burden is on you to prove they are wrong. If you are able to do so, in a court of law, then they must pay all your legal fees and court costs. However, if you fail to prove your case, the legal fees and court costs are at your expense. So, to me, when a vehicle is under warranty, it's better to use an "inferior" oil that costs less and change the oil according to the vehicle manufacture's recommendations than it is to use a "superior" oil that lets you extend the change intervals. If it comes to you against BRP, Amsoil is not going to aid in your legal representation and BRP is going to bring all manner of expert witnesses to the table to testify that the cause of the damage was the extended change intervals.

Mind you, I use Amsoil in both my car and truck and run extended drain intervals. But both of those vehicles are out of warranty. As long as they were in warranty, I followed the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter, even when I was using Amsoil.

 

[Dudley]

This will probably get a few negatives, but here goes. Our first Spyder was a 2008 SE5 GS...started putting Royal Purple 10W40 Automotive Synthetic at 5000 miles and used it until we traded for the 2010 RT SM5, at 43,000 miles. I did all my oil changes and what little needed things myself. The valves were never adjusted and when the Tech checked them when I traded it, they were all in tolerance. At 600 miles, I started using the same oil on the RT. It now has 40,000 miles with NO oil issues what-so-ever. Warranty? Warranty is like an insurance policy, it's only great until you need it, then one hopes it pays SOME of the cost. I have never worried about warranty...worrying reduces the joys of riding!
I regularly change my oil and filter every 5000 miles as I have since I started riding in 1966.

 

[Bad Dog6]

Warranties, AMSOIL and Magnuson Moss

The following is AMSOIL's position on Warranties and the law.


Synthetic Motor Oil
Automakers cannot deny warranty claims solely on the
basis of using synthetic motor oil, and they cannot specify
a certain oil brand to be used in their vehicles. Instead, they
require the oil meets the appropriate API, ACEA or OEM
performance classification, or equivalent, and SAE viscosity
grade specified in the owner’s manual.
Many modern vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor
oils and the manufacturers encourage continued use of synthetic
motor oils in order to achieve maximum performance.
Many other automobile manufacturers neither recommend
nor discourage the use of synthetic motor oils, requiring only
that the oil meets a certain performance classification, or
equivalent, and viscosity grade.
Extended Drain Intervals
Automakers may not void warranties based solely on an
owner’s practice of extending oil drain intervals. Dealership
personnel and district managers may be unaware of the
serviceability of synthetic oils over an extended period, but
they may not summarily dismiss a warranty claim based on
the owner’s practice of changing oil at extended intervals.
To do so does not disprove a defect in manufacture or workmanship
as the immediate cause of failure. Vehicle owners
may appeal to a factory representative if the dealership
and district manager do not satisfactorily settle the warranty
claim. Factory representatives appreciate the value of used
oil analysis and do consider preventive maintenance oil
analysis reports in their evaluations of warranty claims, while
post-failure oil analysis is critically important to the disposition
of a warranty claim. Their findings pull more weight than
the opinions of dealerships or district managers.
If used engine oil is discarded without an independent
analysis, the dealership and vehicle manufacturer lose their
evidence to support a claim that the oil, and not a mechanical
problem, caused the failure. For example, sludge may
be formed through several avenues, not all related to the
oil’s performance. Antifreeze contamination or nitration due
to poor electronic sensor performance may cause sludge,
and both may be directly related to a defect in vehicle
manufacture or workmanship, but clearly neither may be
blamed on the oil.
Vehicle manufacturers base their owner’s manual maintenance
recommendations on their own research and to best
protect their equipment based upon lubricants of varying
quality, reliability and value in the marketplace. A move
toward extended drain intervals is in progress now. Ford
extended its recommended drain interval to 10,000 miles in
normal service conditions, while GM has been recommending
increased intervals when indicated by its oil monitoring
system.
AMSOIL Warranty
AMSOIL offers superior synthetic motor oils fully capable of
providing extended drain service. AMSOIL is committed to
backing its products, as well as protecting the interests of its
customers. Therefore, AMSOIL INC. offers its customers a
limited warranty.
“AMSOIL INC. warrants that the use of its
lubricants will not cause mechanical damage
to any mechanically sound equipment
when AMSOIL INC. products are used
in full compliance with the company’s
recommendations and instructions.”
AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are formulated to surpass
engine test specifications, offering superior protection for
extended drain intervals. With its unparalleled oil and warranty
program, AMSOIL offers consumers unprecedented
protection and economics. See www.amsoil.com/warranty.
aspx to view the AMSOIL limited warranty for lubricant and
filtration products.
Warranties and AMSOIL
Automobile manufacturers generally warrant their vehicles to remain free of defect in manufacture
or workmanship for a certain mileage or time period. Whether an automaker will honor a warranty
claim depends on the vehicle owner providing proper maintenance for the vehicle. For this reason,
it is important for vehicle owners to maintain maintenance records. Proper maintenance includes
installing appropriate oil and filters.
Warranty Specifics
• Any lubricant meeting performance specifications, or equivalent, and viscosity may be used.
Vehicle manufacturers describe lubricants by their viscosity grade and service classification (API, ACEA or OEM).
API classifications are defined by the Tripartite Committee, composed of the American Petroleum Institute, the Society
of Automotive Engineers and the American Society for Testing and Materials. All AMSOIL synthetic motor oils state
their SAE viscosity grade and API performance classification on the product container, and all are recommended for
the highest performance classification for their application.
If personnel at a vehicle dealership claim that a vehicle warranty is void simply by using AMSOIL synthetic motor
oil, obtain this statement in writing and send a copy to AMSOIL INC. AMSOIL will follow-up with the dealership.
• The vehicle manufacturer may not specify by brand name the products you may use in your vehicle.
The Magnuson-Moss Act is a U.S. federal law which states that a manufacturer may not require the use of a specific
brand of aftermarket product, including lubricants, unless that part is provided by the manufacturer free of charge.
To do otherwise constitutes an infringement upon free trade.
If any representative of the vehicle dealership or manufacturer informs you that you must use a specific brand of
lubricant or filter, obtain a written statement to that effect and send a copy to AMSOIL INC. AMSOIL will call the entity
directly to correct the situation.
• Cause of failure is paramount to warranty claim payment.
Vehicle manufacturers warrant their products to be free of defect in manufacture or workmanship. All claims must
be covered unless a vehicle manufacturer proves a failure is lubricant-related. The manufacturer may not arbitrarily
blame a failure on the consumer’s practice of changing oil at extended intervals.
• Verbal notification of refusal to honor a claim is insufficient.
The refusal should be in writing and must state the specific reason a claim has been refused. If you still think a failure
is due to a defect in vehicle manufacture or workmanship, contact the dealership, district manager, manufacturer
or arbitrator.
• The AMSOIL limited warranty assumes protection where the vehicle warranty stops.
AMSOIL offers protection to its customers through the AMSOIL limited warranty. Customers following AMSOIL
recommendations are protected by the AMSOIL limited warranty if they experience a failure caused by an
AMSOIL product.
• Customers are covered.
As long as customers maintain their vehicles properly and follow either the vehicle manufacturer recommendations or
AMSOIL recommendations, their vehicles are warranted against failure by either the vehicle manufacturer or AMSOIL
INC. In the unlikely event of an AMSOIL lubrication-related issue, the AMSOIL limited warranty covers the cost to
repair or replace the damaged components.
AMSOIL INC., 925 Tower Ave., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 Printed in U.S.A. © Copyright 2011 G2488 10/11

Hope this clears it up...

 

[OldCowboy]

AFAIK, no one has claimed that BRP does not allow the use of synthetic oil in :spyder2:. Their recommendation is that the oil not be SM with the suggestion that JASO MA-2 oils are superior to oils that are not JASO MA-2 compliant.

"Automakers may not void warranties based solely on an owner’s practice of extending oil drain intervals." The last time I checked, Amsoil was not a law firm. That statement is their opinion. Should a manufacturer deny a claim because of extended oil drain intervals, the vehicle owner may have to resort to the courts.

"...post-failure oil analysis is critically important to the disposition of a warranty claim." Most likely, the first thing the servicing dealer will do is to drain and discard the oil rendering an oil analysis impossible.

People can do as they like. However, IMHO extending drain intervals on a vehicle under warranty is not a good idea.

 

[liketoride2]

Extended Drain Intervals, Good or Bad?

<<People can do as they like. However, IMHO extending drain intervals on a vehicle under warranty is not a good idea.>>

OldCowboy, this old non-cowboy fully agrees with you. I go even one step further and believe extended drain intervals, and by that I mean significantly longer than the vehicle manufacturers recommendation, are not a good idea in vehicles after the warranties expire either.

The basis for that belief is largely based on the opinion of a friend and riding buddy, now deceased, who was a research petroleum engineer for one of the largest US oil companies, and the most knowledgable person I've ever know about motor oils. Harry was very non-dogmatic in answering the many oil related questions he was invariably subjected to on rides, including never claiming his companies oils were better than other companies. In fact, the only issue I recall him really being really dogmatic about was oil change intervals and he strongly recommended following the vehicle manufacturers recommendations, even if synthetic oil was being used. His reason for that is the same as has been stated by someone earlier in this thread, the accumulation of contaminants in motor oil with increasing mileage and that synthetic oils can't avoid this, or at lease couldn't at that time.

For me this raises the question of what has Amsoil done to their synthetic oils to have extended their drain recommendations? In other words, how has Amsoil modified and improved their oil to deal with the increasing contaminants as mileage accumulates? Have they found a way of neutralizing the contaminants (I can't conceive of any way to eliminate them without changing the oil) that other companies have not?

Perhaps such has happened and I would be very interested in more information on this. Meanwhile, until I see some independent research (and I emphasize independent) that proves extended drain intervals work as advertised, I intend to follow the manufacturers guidelines as I feel the people who design and manufacture the motors are in the best and most objective position to know what's best.

I have an amusing anecdotal story about a person using what must have been one of the longest drain intervals in history but it's long and will have to wait for another time.

Mike
www.rtwrider.net

 

[BajaRon]

<<People can do as they like. However, IMHO extending drain intervals on a vehicle under warranty is not a good idea.>>

OldCowboy, this old non-cowboy fully agrees with you. I go even one step further and believe extended drain intervals, and by that I mean significantly longer than the vehicle manufacturers recommendation, are not a good idea in vehicles after the warranties expire either.

The basis for that belief is largely based on the opinion of a friend and riding buddy, now deceased, who was a research petroleum engineer for one of the largest US oil companies, and the most knowledgable person I've ever know about motor oils. Harry was very non-dogmatic in answering the many oil related questions he was invariably subjected to on rides, including never claiming his companies oils were better than other companies. In fact, the only issue I recall him really being really dogmatic about was oil change intervals and he strongly recommended following the vehicle manufacturers recommendations, even if synthetic oil was being used. His reason for that is the same as has been stated by someone earlier in this thread, the accumulation of contaminants in motor oil with increasing mileage and that synthetic oils can't avoid this, or at lease couldn't at that time.

For me this raises the question of what has Amsoil done to their synthetic oils to have extended their drain recommendations? In other words, how has Amsoil modified and improved their oil to deal with the increasing contaminants as mileage accumulates? Have they found a way of neutralizing the contaminants (I can't conceive of any way to eliminate them without changing the oil) that other companies have not?

Perhaps such has happened and I would be very interested in more information on this. Meanwhile, until I see some independent research (and I emphasize independent) that proves extended drain intervals work as advertised, I intend to follow the manufacturers guidelines as I feel the people who design and manufacture the motors are in the best and most objective position to know what's best.

I have an amusing anecdotal story about a person using what must have been one of the longest drain intervals in history but it's long and will have to wait for another time.

Mike
www.rtwrider.net

If you have your oil tested they will list the contaminate levels along with fuel dilution and the various lubricating (or lack thereof) properties such as viscosity, shear damage, etc. I have had my oil tested at 5,200 miles and 6,400 miles. Both came out with flying colors meaning that I could have waited longer and still have lubrication/protection which exceeded BRP's requirements.

I ran extended oil change intervals while in warranty and now that I am out of warranty. If my lubricant exceeds the BRP specs when I change it, then I have met the warranty requirements. Change intervals are set based on the quality of the oil recommended by the manufacturer to maintain at least minimum requirements at the change interval. Many vehicle manufacturers recognize in writing that if a true, full synthetic oil like Amsoil is used, oil change intervals can be doubled with their blessing.

 

[OldCowboy]

Many vehicle manufacturers recognize in writing that if a true, full synthetic oil like Amsoil is used, oil change intervals can be doubled with their blessing.

I have engaged in many oil discussions at bobistheoilguy.com. These discussions frequently included Amsoil representatives. At no time did anyone make this claim. If you have documentation that validates that statement, I would like to see it.

 

[bruiser]

I have never paid $16 for oil. We use BRP in the 2010, and AMsoil in the 2012. I get both from my Can Am dealer. BRP oil is 10.95 and AMSoil is 11.95. That's before my 10% discount. Next oil change on the 2010 will be AMSoil. I have had two offers to become an AMSoil dealer, don't want to. There's too many in this small county now.

 

[Bad Dog6]

Warranties and the Magnuson-Moss Act


Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. An examination of the law reveals warranties remain intact when AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are used.
The law was meant to give consumers detailed information about warranty coverage before they buy.
Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law.
The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the Dispute Resolution Rule.

Those rules require warrantors to title their written warranty as either full or limited, provide a single, clear and easy-to-read document that spells out certain information about coverage and ensure that warranties are available where the products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.
In passing the Act, Congress meant to give consumers access to warranty information, let consumers comparison shop for warranties, encourage warranty competition and promote timely and complete performance of warranty obligations.

While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if ((1)the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. ((42 U.S.C.2302(C))
That means your warranty stands when you use AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants.


Vehicle manufacturers recommend lubricants according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether it s conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade,5W-30 for example, and the current API SL and ILSAC GF-3 North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage. AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications. For more information on API licensing, go to Ask AMSOIL in the Dealer Zone.

Furthermore, the practice of extending oil drain intervals does not void warranties. Original equipment manufacturers pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil didn't cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of brand or length of time in use.


Synthetic motor oil was introduced to the automotive public in 1972 by AMSOIL, INC., with the world s first API rated synthetic motor oil specially formulated for long service and superior performance and protection to that of conventional oils.


Nearly 41 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it s a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they re willing to provide you those products free of charge.
AMSOIL offers a warranty that covers the cost of repair or replacement of a proven mechanically sound engine damaged as a result of using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. However, it has never happened. Forty one years of experience proves AMSOIL can be installed in any vehicle with complete confidence.


AMSOIL further backs its products with action when a Dealer or customer reports being told their warranty is voided if they use synthetics.


If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts.
Access to the complete Magnuson-Moss Act is available on the Internet by key words Magnuson-Moss Act or Federal Trade Commission.

If this doesn't answer your question, I give up. I personally don't care what oil you use, I just hate to see all this bloviating.

 

[liketoride2]

BajaRon wrote:

<<If you have your oil tested they will list the contaminate levels along with fuel dilution and the various lubricating (or lack thereof) properties such as viscosity, shear damage, etc. I have had my oil tested at 5,200 miles and 6,400 miles. Both came out with flying colors meaning that I could have waited longer and still have lubrication/protection which exceeded BRP's requirements.

I ran extended oil change intervals while in warranty and now that I am out of warranty. If my lubricant exceeds the BRP specs when I change it, then I have met the warranty requirements.>>

Ron, I'm sure that's an excellent program to follow regarding oil changes. However, to me it also seems very time consuming, complicated, and expensive.

My approach is much simpler, uncomplicated, and less expensive. I drop by the local Walmart, Autozone, O'Reillys, or Carquest and buy a well known brand of synthetic motorcycle specific oil that I believe is as good (not better) than any that can be purchased anywhere, including Amsoil. I have a wholesale price source for K&N oil filters which I also believe are as good as any other brand. Then I simply change the oil at the vehicle manufacturers recommended intervals. No collecting oil samples, arranging for their shipping, waiting for the results to come back, waiting for mail delivery of Amsoil, etc. Simple, quick, easy, cost effective and I'm confident provides top-notch protection for my motorcycles. And of course, I've never had any sort of oil related failure or problem doing things this way. But, I don't believe that's very significant because I go way back to the days before multi-grade motor oils existed, and when the universally recommended oil change interval was 1000 miles, and never had any oil related failures then either. However, automobiles were usually ready for a ring and valve job at about 40,000 miles under those circumstances.

So it seems to me that we both get to the same goal, that being excellent protection for our engines, in different ways but ways we are both confident in and happy with. And that also seems to me to be as it should be. C'est la vie!

However, I still haven't had an answer to my question regarding what Amsoil has done to their motorcycle oils that other lubricant companies haven't that allows extended drainage intervals, which most other companies don't do. I really would be interested in an answer. This is an honest question (I'm not trying to be argumentative) that I do not know the answer to. What changes did Amsoil recently make in their oils to allow such longer drain intervals?

Mike
www.rtwrider.net

 

[OldCowboy]

Warranties and the Magnuson-Moss Act


Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. An examination of the law reveals warranties remain intact when AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are used.
The law was meant to give consumers detailed information about warranty coverage before they buy.
Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law.
The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the Dispute Resolution Rule.

Those rules require warrantors to title their written warranty as either full or limited, provide a single, clear and easy-to-read document that spells out certain information about coverage and ensure that warranties are available where the products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.
In passing the Act, Congress meant to give consumers access to warranty information, let consumers comparison shop for warranties, encourage warranty competition and promote timely and complete performance of warranty obligations.

While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if ((1)the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. ((42 U.S.C.2302(C))
That means your warranty stands when you use AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants.


Vehicle manufacturers recommend lubricants according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether it s conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade,5W-30 for example, and the current API SL and ILSAC GF-3 North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage. AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications. For more information on API licensing, go to Ask AMSOIL in the Dealer Zone.

Furthermore, the practice of extending oil drain intervals does not void warranties. Original equipment manufacturers pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil didn't cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of brand or length of time in use.


Synthetic motor oil was introduced to the automotive public in 1972 by AMSOIL, INC., with the world s first API rated synthetic motor oil specially formulated for long service and superior performance and protection to that of conventional oils.


Nearly 41 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it s a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they re willing to provide you those products free of charge.
AMSOIL offers a warranty that covers the cost of repair or replacement of a proven mechanically sound engine damaged as a result of using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. However, it has never happened. Forty one years of experience proves AMSOIL can be installed in any vehicle with complete confidence.


AMSOIL further backs its products with action when a Dealer or customer reports being told their warranty is voided if they use synthetics.


If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts.
Access to the complete Magnuson-Moss Act is available on the Internet by key words Magnuson-Moss Act or Federal Trade Commission.

If this doesn't answer your question, I give up. I personally don't care what oil you use, I just hate to see all this bloviating.

AFAIK, no one has claimed that you must use BRP oil or your warranty will be voided. So your first highlighted paragraph is immaterial to the question of extended drain intervals.

The second highlighted paragraph speaks the truth, but ignores the fact if the manufacturer denies the warranty claim, justified or not, then the individual must sue the manufacturer and prove the manufacturer wrong. And, based on information which you posted in a previous thread, an oil analysis at the time of the failure is critical to determining if oil contributed to the failure. The probability of the owner of the vehicle getting a sample is slim to none, since the vast majority of them are not aware of this fine point. Additionally the servicing dealer will, in the case of engine or transmission damage, drain and discard the oil as the first step in determining the damage.

The third highlighted section is interesting, but proves nothing, since even if the manufacturer denied the warranty claim, all Amsoil has to say is it wasn't our oil's fault.

The fourth highlighted section is interesting, but meaningless. No one is going to give an owner a signed, dated letter providing the information you have noted.

Apparently, you are not aware that to sue a manufacturer in federal court for denying a warranty claim under the Magnuson-Moss Act, "...the amount in controversy [must be] over $25,000 or a class action if the number of class plaintiffs is greater than 100." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act) That's a big hurdle for a motorcycle warranty claim. So, in reality, the Magnuson-Moss Act doesn't come into play for our Spyders and claims must be filed under applicable state laws in state courts.

I am not trying to denigrate Amsoil oils. I think they are great oils and use them in my vehicles. I just think it is inadvisable to extend the drain intervals on vehicles which are under warranty. In fact, I think it is inadvisable to extend the drain intervals on any vehicle without appropriate oil analysis results. Even Amsoil cannot provide extended protection to someone whose average trip is less than 10 miles.

 

[OldCowboy]

However, I still haven't had an answer to my question regarding what Amsoil has done to their motorcycle oils that other lubricant companies haven't that allows extended drainage intervals, which most other companies don't do. I really would be interested in an answer. This is an honest question (I'm not trying to be argumentative) that I do not know the answer to. What changes did Amsoil recently make in their oils to allow such longer drain intervals?

Mike
www.rtwrider.net

Amsoil oils are able to provide extended drain intervals due to their more robust additive package. Most oils today have a Total Base Number (TBN) of 8-9. Amsoil oils have a TBN of 11-12. This lets them offer longer drain intervals.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance motor oils have a TBN of 10, which allows them to provide extended drain intervals to 15,000 miles.

 

[Highwayman2013]

The only thing Base does is fight any acids in the oil.