Water wetter vs ICE

[NancysToy]

Question? Fine in summer but what about winter? With all these so called cooling additives; some say with just water or a little antifreeze added. How is supposed to protect from freezing in the winter. Just woundering in northern Wis. Where it can and has reached -40 plus. I would think more antifreeze is needed. 50/50

From the calculations I did after seeing the amount of antifreeze after Water Wetter is added, the protection level will go up from the -34 delivered by 50:50 antifreeze to about 0, maybe -10 if you replenish with antifreeze instead of water. Your winters are even more brutal than ours here in Michigan, so I would not do it, but then again our summers aren't normally 100 degrees plus (especially not this summer!) so we shouldn't need extra cooling. Running 3 bars may be comforting to some, but it is just where the Spyder thermostat opens, and not even what they consider normal operating temperature. People don't get upset when their electric car cooling fans run, so why fret over a fan that runs on a Spyder? If you are seeing a continuous six bars consistantly, do something, but if not why worry? JMHO
-Scotty

 

[BajaRon]

From the calculations I did after seeing the amount of antifreeze after Water Wetter is added, the protection level will go up from the -34 delivered by 50:50 antifreeze to about 0, maybe -10 if you replenish with antifreeze instead of water. Your winters are even more brutal than ours here in Michigan, so I would not do it, but then again our summers aren't normally 100 degrees plus (especially not this summer!) so we shouldn't need extra cooling. Running 3 bars may be comforting to some, but it is just where the Spyder thermostat opens, and not even what they consider normal operating temperature. People don't get upset when their electric car cooling fans run, so why fret over a fan that runs on a Spyder? If you are seeing a continuous six bars consistantly, do something, but if not why worry? JMHO
-Scotty

I had not yet done the freeze/boil over calculations on a 30/70 mix. Zero degrees in more than enough freeze protection for most people. I can't see too many riding in lower temps than that. Storage is another issue but still, how many will store their Spyder in sub-zero conditions.

Extrapolating the data I did find (I think we have a 15 lb cap) it looks like a 30/70 mix gives about a 255 degree boil over point. 50/50 gives a 265 degree boil over.

So you don't lose much on the top end. System pressure does more for boil over (raising the temp at which the mix boils) than does the antifreeze mix.

 

[Putt-Putt]

My spyder is in my garage, witch is not heated or even attached to the house. So it gets almost as cold in there.

 

[NancysToy]

I had not yet done the freeze/boil over calculations on a 30/70 mix. Zero degrees in more than enough freeze protection for most people. I can't see too many riding in lower temps than that. Storage is another issue but still, how many will store their Spyder in sub-zero conditions.

Extrapolating the data I did find (I think we have a 15 lb cap) it looks like a 30/70 mix gives about a 255 degree boil over point. 50/50 gives a 265 degree boil over.

So you don't lose much on the top end. System pressure does more for boil over (raising the temp at which the mix boils) than does the antifreeze mix.

Wish I lived where you live! I agree about not riding in temps that low, although folks have to allow a certain amount of leeway, because the air rushing across a radiator can cause the temp of the water in the radiator to actually fall below ambient, resulting in slush and cooling system blockage. Not a common problem nowadays, but it used to be fairly frequent before permanent antifreezes and 50:50 mixtures were the standard.

As to storage, a lot of us up here, maybe even most of us, have unheated garages or sheds. Storage is absolutely a consideration. Worse yet, after an extended cold period, a garage in the North is hard to warm back up because of the cold mass of the concrete floor. Sub-zero garage temps can last literally for weeks.
-Scotty

 

[BajaRon]

Wish I lived where you live! I agree about not riding in temps that low, although folks have to allow a certain amount of leeway, because the air rushing across a radiator can cause the temp of the water in the radiator to actually fall below ambient, resulting in slush and cooling system blockage. Not a common problem nowadays, but it used to be fairly frequent before permanent antifreezes and 50:50 mixtures were the standard.

As to storage, a lot of us up here, maybe even most of us, have unheated garages or sheds. Storage is absolutely a consideration. Worse yet, after an extended cold period, a garage in the North is hard to warm back up because of the cold mass of the concrete floor. Sub-zero garage temps can last literally for weeks.
-Scotty

I'm sure there are exceptions. I question the sanity of people that like living in sub-zero temps, but hey! That leaves more room in the sun for the rest of us! :joke:

You guys probably don't have the heating problems we do so cooling efficiency lost to the higher amount of antifreeze is not all that important in a cooler climate.

But I do not see how a radiator can ever get below ambient temperature. How would that happen? Wouldn't that be on par with a perpetual motion machine?

 

[NancysToy]

I'm sure there are exceptions. I question the sanity of people that like living in sub-zero temps, but hey! That leaves more room in the sun for the rest of us! :joke:

At many times I question our sanity, too. Most of those thoughts occur while shoveling. :roflblack:

You guys probably don't have the heating problems we do so cooling efficiency lost to the higher amount of antifreeze is not all that important in a cooler climate.

We can get the hot days (to us). Our warmest stretches run into several days in the mid-nineties, for the most part, but eighties are most common in the summer. This summer is an unpleasant exception; too much like October. Headed for the coolest July on record. I doubt that any of us have to worry about heat transfer capabilities here.

But I do not see how a radiator can ever get below ambient temperature. How would that happen? Wouldn't that be on par with a perpetual motion machine?

Believe me when I say I do not understand this either. Must be something similar to the effect of evaporation on your skin. All I know is that it is a very real thing, although less common nowadays. I have serviced dozens of cars over the years with this malady. It used to be well known when I worked in a service station, and we kept a hose hooked to a hot water tap for such events. Can't say I did the same for motorcycles, first, they don't travel well in snow and ice, and second, they used to be air-cooled. When did that change? :joke:
-Scotty