Water Intrussion Problem with DESS Failure Code on 2015 RT Limited

[Paul H]

We have owned our 2015 RT Limited since July of 2015. It is still under warranty. This summer we were on a 3000 mile ride through the western US and went through a heavy rain thunder storm in WY. This was our first big thunder storm that we rode through with the Spyder. After we got through the storm, we stopped for fuel. When I tried to start the engine, I got a DESS key error message. We then had our bike and motorcycle trailer towed about 100 miles to a great dealership in Spearfish, South Dakota. This shop accepted our Spyder in as a priority. After 2 days in the shop, they removed water from within two fuse boxes, the wiring harness and all connectors to the computers. The operating computers were not operating properly because of the water intrusion. The computers thought the bike was running, in first gear, even though it was turned off. The DESS module was not working and would not accept a re-boot or reprograming for the keys. It took 1.5 days to dry out the water at that shop. After the trip, on July 12th, we took the Spyder to our local Can Am dealer in Bend, Oregon (Pro-Caliber Motorsports) to have them determine the cause and remedy of the water intrusion, seal failures and DESS failure. They gave it back to us unrepaired stating they could not find anything wrong. I asked them to contact BRP service support to determine a fix so this did not happen again in rain, which they did not do. Then 3 days ago, I washed the Spyder with a garden hose. Nothing special. The next morning we again discovered a DESS error code and the keys did not work. I had it towed to Pro Caliber Motorsports of Bend and showed them that the Spyder would not start and had a DESS error message on the display. It sat for 3 days waiting for a tech to run a diagnostic. By then it had dried out and was again starting. Even though it was towed into the shop with the DESS error code and none of the keys working, BRP warranty wanted them to now re-create the problem by hand washing the Spyder before authorizing warranty action and repair. Of course the one washing did not re-activate the code. BRP still will not authorize the warranty work to be done at this time until it comes back into the shop again for the same problem. This is absurd. I left the Spyder at the dealership under the same warranty work order and told them to re-contact BRP for authorization to proceed under the factory warranty. I have requested that the wiring harness, the harness connectors, and the back of the fuse boxes be sealed or replace. In addition, after researching the problem, I have requested that also the DESS module be replaced with an updated version and the ignition switch be replaced to avoid another DESS error problem.

I have contacted BRP customer care with documentation of all the mentioned incidents asking for assistance and authorization to repair the defects. I am waiting for a reply. I do not know think this water intrusion problem is a unique problem to our bike, or has occurred to others. BRP was great to work for on another warranty problem when I first bought the Spyder and it had a defective shifter module so I am a little surprised at their inaction on this issue. Anyone with advise or have a similar problem with water intrusion and the DESS problem?

I will update my post when I hear back from BRP customer support. Thanks Paul

 

[loisk]

Let's hope brp care get right onto this!

It can't be the garden hose - our dealer washes them with a high pressure hose!!

 

[oldguyinTX]

Typical BRP BS. Unfortunately, all too common.

 

[taxmyzer]

The same thing happened

On my 2013RT-S BRP issued a technical service bulletin to replace the fuse box covers and also applying additional rtv sealant around the harnesses to the fuse boxes.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

YOUR DESS ISSUE AND BRP AND DEALER

IMHO, you are being handed a whole bunch of ...BS... first re-creating the problem is NOT necessary, EVERY " CODE " and event is recorded in the computer system .... and anyone who says it isn't is full of sh*t. Why do you think Hillary C. had to resort to hammers and a Tech process known as " Bleach-bit ". I'll tell you why, because She new the info WOULD be found by computer Geeks ... and in your case " B.U.D.S. " will have it.......Annnnnnnnd BRP - ONLY knows what the Dealer tells them ......... also I have NEVER heard of the DESS issue being related to water .... I have seen the DESS module and it is sealed permanently, it's not a repairable part, it will only be re-placed to fix the issue ........ Mike :thumbup:

 

[ARtraveler]

I have to watch this one. But I am learning from it. :bowdown::bowdown:

 

[BRPcare]

Hi Paul,

Just got wind of your case I'm checking with the customer support team right now to see what we can do to get this sped up. Our team is working with your dealer and our goal is to get you up and running as soon as possible.

We will let you know of all further development by e-mail as soon as we have an update and we will continue to assist you through there.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Paul H]

BRP Customer Care Helped Out

Customer Support contacted the Warranty Department and now they authorized changing the DESS module and sealing the ends of the wiring harness at the connections with a sealant. They were slow to respond to me but they did their job with their quick contacts with Pro Caliber of Bend. DESS module on order so I should be back on the road soon. Thanks for the info posts from Spyderlovers that was used to move this on to a repair authorization. We will be active members and look forward to reading the forums and keeping up to date. PS Semper Fi to all Marines and other service men and women out there. Paul H :thumbup:

We have owned our 2015 RT Limited since July of 2015. It is still under warranty. This summer we were on a 3000 mile ride through the western US and went through a heavy rain thunder storm in WY. This was our first big thunder storm that we rode through with the Spyder. After we got through the storm, we stopped for fuel. When I tried to start the engine, I got a DESS key error message. We then had our bike and motorcycle trailer towed about 100 miles to a great dealership in Spearfish, South Dakota. This shop accepted our Spyder in as a priority. After 2 days in the shop, they removed water from within two fuse boxes, the wiring harness and all connectors to the computers. The operating computers were not operating properly because of the water intrusion. The computers thought the bike was running, in first gear, even though it was turned off. The DESS module was not working and would not accept a re-boot or reprograming for the keys. It took 1.5 days to dry out the water at that shop. After the trip, on July 12th, we took the Spyder to our local Can Am dealer in Bend, Oregon (Pro-Caliber Motorsports) to have them determine the cause and remedy of the water intrusion, seal failures and DESS failure. They gave it back to us unrepaired stating they could not find anything wrong. I asked them to contact BRP service support to determine a fix so this did not happen again in rain, which they did not do. Then 3 days ago, I washed the Spyder with a garden hose. Nothing special. The next morning we again discovered a DESS error code and the keys did not work. I had it towed to Pro Caliber Motorsports of Bend and showed them that the Spyder would not start and had a DESS error message on the display. It sat for 3 days waiting for a tech to run a diagnostic. By then it had dried out and was again starting. Even though it was towed into the shop with the DESS error code and none of the keys working, BRP warranty wanted them to now re-create the problem by hand washing the Spyder before authorizing warranty action and repair. Of course the one washing did not re-activate the code. BRP still will not authorize the warranty work to be done at this time until it comes back into the shop again for the same problem. This is absurd. I left the Spyder at the dealership under the same warranty work order and told them to re-contact BRP for authorization to proceed under the factory warranty. I have requested that the wiring harness, the harness connectors, and the back of the fuse boxes be sealed or replace. In addition, after researching the problem, I have requested that also the DESS module be replaced with an updated version and the ignition switch be replaced to avoid another DESS error problem.

I have contacted BRP customer care with documentation of all the mentioned incidents asking for assistance and authorization to repair the defects. I am waiting for a reply. I do not know think this water intrusion problem is a unique problem to our bike, or has occurred to others. BRP was great to work for on another warranty problem when I first bought the Spyder and it had a defective shifter module so I am a little surprised at their inaction on this issue. Anyone with advise or have a similar problem with water intrusion and the DESS problem?

I will update my post when I hear back from BRP customer support. Thanks Paul

 

[Paul H]

Thank you BRP Customer Service

Thanks to your help. It is much appreciated.

I called today Pro Caliber Motorsports in Bend today and learned that a DESS module is on order and assume they are sealing the harness connections with sealant. Please make sure the connections to the harness are being sealed as mentioned by another Spyderlovers forum post in this thread about previous harness water intrusion problems and a tech bulletin fix for a different model. We need to be confident that the bike is reliable and that this new issue is resolved to the best of your technical knowledge, including addressing the water intrusion problem. It is costly to break down for days in another state and tends to dampen the enjoyment of the trip.

Since we are on hold for second planned summer trip, could you make sure BRP ships the most updated DESS module priority shipping.

Finally, could you ensure Pro Caliber puts a priority in getting it done once the module is received? Their service shop is under re-organization and quite frankly very dis-organized with only one Can Am certified tech left and have misplaced some of our service records, including the July 12th warranty appointment on the same issue, where they did not address DESS and Water Intrusion issues.

I would appreciate if you would keep track of Pro Calibers progress to ensure a speedy replacement of the DESS module and proper sealing of the harness and fuse boxes.

Summer is short here in Bend, as we are in snow country. After 46 of riding motorcycles, we bought the Spyder for all our long trips. Due to our golden year status, we picked the Spyder RT Limited for the comfort, technology, and safety. My wife liked riding on the back of my bike but refused for years to buy her own bike and learn to ride a 2 wheeler. I made the mistake of teaching her to drive the Spyder, The Spyder is now her main ride in town and on day trips. She even named it, which makes me laugh. I have a classic 85 Goldwing Interstate which I still drive around town and on day trips. It is now "Her Spyder" and she always wants to drive "Charlotte" and take both bikes on day rides. On the long trips, she "allows" me to drive since I am a big person with more experience. Oh well, A happy wife is a happy life, so please help me by getting the Spyder fixed ASAP.

QUOTE=BRPcare;1286428]Hi Paul,

Just got wind of your case I'm checking with the customer support team right now to see what we can do to get this sped up. Our team is working with your dealer and our goal is to get you up and running as soon as possible.

We will let you know of all further development by e-mail as soon as we have an update and we will continue to assist you through there.

Thanks,

Steve[/QUOTE]

 

[larryd]

IMHO, you are being handed a whole bunch of ...BS... first re-creating the problem is NOT necessary, EVERY " CODE " and event is recorded in the computer system .... and anyone who says it isn't is full of sh*t. Why do you think Hillary C. had to resort to hammers and a Tech process known as " Bleach-bit ". I'll tell you why, because She new the info WOULD be found by computer Geeks ... and in your case " B.U.D.S. " will have it.......Annnnnnnnd BRP - ONLY knows what the Dealer tells them ......... also I have NEVER heard of the DESS issue being related to water .... I have seen the DESS module and it is sealed permanently, it's not a repairable part, it will only be re-placed to fix the issue ........ Mike :thumbup:

The DESS module is only one part of the puzzle that can fail...I had 4 failures and it was only after replacing the ignition switch and keys that the problem has seemed to be corrected...Mine had it last failure after washing with a garden hose in the driveway...So it could be water in the ignition switch, were the antenna is located that could be causing some of the failures??? larryd

 

[HankD]

Interesting......

Hi Paul,

Just got wind of your case I'm checking with the customer support team right now to see what we can do to get this sped up. Our team is working with your dealer and our goal is to get you up and running as soon as possible.

We will let you know of all further development by e-mail as soon as we have an update and we will continue to assist you through there.

Thanks,

Steve

Interesting. There is another recent thread on this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=dess The end of that thread mentions fuse box water also.

I have a 2017 RT-S and have also noticed water inside my fuse box covers (no DESS failures yet ray. After reading what can happen, I called BRP and several nearby dealers today. The Customer Service Rep. from BRP said that there were NO reported cases of water intrusion into the fuse box. This is clearly not the case based on BRP's own post here. The 2 dealerships I called also said there were no Service Bulletins regarding this and they had never heard of it. Since I have seen water in my own fusebox after a light rain event, now I am not willing to take a distance trip on the trike for fear of running into a rainstorm and getting stranded somewhere with no recourse but to have it towed to a dealer and being stuck while the dealer and BP hash it out....a very unappealing situation.

I asked BP if I could talk to an actual technician, and the rep said all their techs were "dealer facing" and did not interact with customers :banghead:

Banging my head here for sure. I guess if more people call BP who are experiencing the problem, maybe they will get the picture. Or if BRP is monitoring this thread, maybe they can explain the answer I got from BP Customer Service, or give me some kind of reference number I can use to talk to them or a dealer about the sealing fix mentioned?

Thanks

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

WATER AND DESS

Interesting. There is another recent thread on this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=dess The end of that thread mentions fuse box water also.

I have a 2017 RT-S and have also noticed water inside my fuse box covers (no DESS failures yet ray. After reading what can happen, I called BRP and several nearby dealers today. The Customer Service Rep. from BRP said that there were NO reported cases of water intrusion into the fuse box. This is clearly not the case based on BRP's own post here. The 2 dealerships I called also said there were no Service Bulletins regarding this and they had never heard of it. Since I have seen water in my own fusebox after a light rain event, now I am not willing to take a distance trip on the trike for fear of running into a rainstorm and getting stranded somewhere with no recourse but to have it towed to a dealer and being stuck while the dealer and BP hash it out....a very unappealing situation.

I asked BP if I could talk to an actual technician, and the rep said all their techs were "dealer facing" and did not interact with customers :banghead:

Banging my head here for sure. I guess if more people call BP who are experiencing the problem, maybe they will get the picture. Or if BRP is monitoring this thread, maybe they can explain the answer I got from BP Customer Service, or give me some kind of reference number I can use to talk to them or a dealer about the sealing fix mentioned?

Thanks

:yikes: .... I've been through this and agree with BRP about the WATER thing being a possibility. Frankly the FUSE BOX has nothing to do with DESS + WATER = failure ....If a FUSE could even SHORT out do to water what would happen - - It would BLOW , that's what they are supposed to do !!!! Then you would re-place the FUSE ...not the DESS MODULE , BECAUSE IT WOULD UN-AFFECTED .....In 2014 BRP re-designed a part ( DESS module ) that wasn't broken .... into a Part that now fails and after FOUR FIXES is still failing ( Although less now ) ....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[HankD]

:yikes: .... I've been through this and agree with BRP about the WATER thing being a possibility. Frankly the FUSE BOX has nothing to do with DESS + WATER = failure ....If a FUSE could even SHORT out do to water what would happen - - It would BLOW , that's what they are supposed to do !!!! Then you would re-place the FUSE ...not the DESS MODULE , BECAUSE IT WOULD UN-AFFECTED .....In 2014 BRP re-designed a part ( DESS module ) that wasn't broken .... into a Part that now fails and after FOUR FIXES is still failing ( Although less now ) ....... Mike :thumbup:

I totally understand what you are saying, and I am surely no expert on the innards of the trike...it's a complex machine. But, I still don't like water in my fuse box covers or the response I got from BRP about it (i.e. they had never heard of it). It is a brand-new trike, and I am admittedly sorta picky.

I might just look to see where the wiring harness enters the fuse box and see if there is an easy way to seal it up a little better. It looks like water is entering thru the back side of the frunk, because the seals on the fuse box covers and the frunk look fine, and the inside of the frunk and the felt liner in front of the fuse box is bone dry also. It's probably not a huge job for me to fashion a small sealer plug and/or use some foam to improve water tightness. Thanks for the input though. This forum and website are very helpful.

 

[finless]

Ahhhh..... water in the fuse box can cause small cross currents between the systems the fuses they protect.
So yes this could easily be "a" cause.
There are several codes and troubleshooting procedures that discuss incorrect voltages at components, ECM, etc etc etc... with some saying to replace harnesses.
Do not rule this out so easily.

Bob

 

[billybovine]

I totally understand what you are saying, and I am surely no expert on the innards of the trike...it's a complex machine. But, I still don't like water in my fuse box covers or the response I got from BRP about it (i.e. they had never heard of it). It is a brand-new trike, and I am admittedly sorta picky.

I might just look to see where the wiring harness enters the fuse box and see if there is an easy way to seal it up a little better. It looks like water is entering thru the back side of the frunk, because the seals on the fuse box covers and the frunk look fine, and the inside of the frunk and the felt liner in front of the fuse box is bone dry also. It's probably not a huge job for me to fashion a small sealer plug and/or use some foam to improve water tightness. Thanks for the input though. This forum and website are very helpful.

By this explanation I get the impression that you may be confused about where water is allowed or not. Or I may just misunderstanding you. Inside the front trunk. When you remove the the fuse box access covers. It is normal to find water there, after a wash or driving in the rain. Because behind those covers is outside, fully exposed to the elements. Those covers are there to stop water from entering the front trunk. Under those access covers is the actual fuse box covers. If you remove them and find water inside the fuse boxes. That is a problem. Take it back a get it fixed under warranty.

 

[HankD]

By this explanation I get the impression that you may be confused about where water is allowed or not. Or I may just misunderstanding you. Inside the front trunk. When you remove the the fuse box access covers. It is normal to find water there, after a wash or driving in the rain. Because behind those covers is outside, fully exposed to the elements. Those covers are there to stop water from entering the front trunk. Under those access covers is the actual fuse box covers. If you remove them and find water inside the fuse boxes. That is a problem. Take it back a get it fixed under warranty.

Thanks! :bowdown: No water in the inner covers, only the outer ones. I'll think of the outer covers as "Frunk Protector Covers" from now on. Feel much better now.

 

[jon-1946]

DESS Error

I have my bike in the shop as I wright this. I have had the DESS error over several months but was able to turn the key on and off several times to correct the issue; However, Now the issue happens often and the bike may start after a couple of days then the next day I get the DESS error and the bike wont start. I am getting ready for a Spyder Ralley and am afraid to go for fear of the issue happening.

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Customer Care at BRP

Jon Tibbits
[email protected]

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

DESS DISASTER

I have my bike in the shop as I wright this. I have had the DESS error over several months but was able to turn the key on and off several times to correct the issue; However, Now the issue happens often and the bike may start after a couple of days then the next day I get the DESS error and the bike wont start. I am getting ready for a Spyder Ralley and am afraid to go for fear of the issue happening.

Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Customer Care at BRP

Jon Tibbits
[email protected]

Jon you are a very brave soul ..... You have been EXTREMELY lucky in getting it started for this amount of time. You don't say what Spyder you have ??? or if it's under warranty ??? ..... It's hard to help when we are flying Blind ............... jmho....... Mike

 

[Paul H]

BRP Authorized mine to be sealed and the DESS Module Replaced

Contact the BRP Rep on my post. They authorized the sealing of my wiring harness and the replacement of the DESS module. The mechanic at Pro Caliber put grease on the gaskets on the inside of the fuse boxes and battery box even though that was not the source of the water as the front trunk was dry. Also, he put sealant on the wiring harness at the back of the mentioned fuse boxes and battery box. I think this will fix the water intrusion issue. Finally he changed the DESS module to the updated one mentioned by other members. I put the bike in my front lawn and ran sprinklers for over an hour on the bike, and no water in the boxes or any problems after it sat overnight. The tech who fixed my bike suggested this. I am waiting for the next big thunderstorm in Bend to do the final riding test to ensure I am not stranded again in another state.

I would take your bike back your shop, have them review the forums and get authorization to have the back of the boxes sealed under warranty. Get approval first. Do not take no as an answer and deal directly with BRP customer support for the authorization before you waste your time dealing with a local dealer

Good luck and I will keep everyone posted of this design flaw issue.

Interesting. There is another recent thread on this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=dess The end of that thread mentions fuse box water also.

I have a 2017 RT-S and have also noticed water inside my fuse box covers (no DESS failures yet ray. After reading what can happen, I called BRP and several nearby dealers today. The Customer Service Rep. from BRP said that there were NO reported cases of water intrusion into the fuse box. This is clearly not the case based on BRP's own post here. The 2 dealerships I called also said there were no Service Bulletins regarding this and they had never heard of it. Since I have seen water in my own fusebox after a light rain event, now I am not willing to take a distance trip on the trike for fear of running into a rainstorm and getting stranded somewhere with no recourse but to have it towed to a dealer and being stuck while the dealer and BP hash it out....a very unappealing situation.

I asked BP if I could talk to an actual technician, and the rep said all their techs were "dealer facing" and did not interact with customers :banghead:

Banging my head here for sure. I guess if more people call BP who are experiencing the problem, maybe they will get the picture. Or if BRP is monitoring this thread, maybe they can explain the answer I got from BP Customer Service, or give me some kind of reference number I can use to talk to them or a dealer about the sealing fix mentioned?

Thanks

 

[Paul H]

Let it rain and have your wiring harness sealed.

My fuse boxes had water pouring out of them when it was opened when on our trip because of the heavy rain and water on the roadway.

Back on the road. The DESS module updated and the back of the fuse and battery box sealed at the harness and back with sealant. I put the bike on the lawn and soaked it with the sprinklers for 1 hour. Left overnight and no water in fuse or battery box and it started without problems. That was a relief. Waiting for the next big thunderstorm to go out and get very wet for the final test. It appears that the sealing of the harness and the boxes worked is a must do if you ever hit and ride through a large storm. BRP says the newer bikes are using the same harness so beware if you do not have it sealed with a sealant. I will update after a good thunderstorm.

We have owned our 2015 RT Limited since July of 2015. It is still under warranty. This summer we were on a 3000 mile ride through the western US and went through a heavy rain thunder storm in WY. This was our first big thunder storm that we rode through with the Spyder. After we got through the storm, we stopped for fuel. When I tried to start the engine, I got a DESS key error message. We then had our bike and motorcycle trailer towed about 100 miles to a great dealership in Spearfish, South Dakota. This shop accepted our Spyder in as a priority. After 2 days in the shop, they removed water from within two fuse boxes, the wiring harness and all connectors to the computers. The operating computers were not operating properly because of the water intrusion. The computers thought the bike was running, in first gear, even though it was turned off. The DESS module was not working and would not accept a re-boot or reprograming for the keys. It took 1.5 days to dry out the water at that shop. After the trip, on July 12th, we took the Spyder to our local Can Am dealer in Bend, Oregon (Pro-Caliber Motorsports) to have them determine the cause and remedy of the water intrusion, seal failures and DESS failure. They gave it back to us unrepaired stating they could not find anything wrong. I asked them to contact BRP service support to determine a fix so this did not happen again in rain, which they did not do. Then 3 days ago, I washed the Spyder with a garden hose. Nothing special. The next morning we again discovered a DESS error code and the keys did not work. I had it towed to Pro Caliber Motorsports of Bend and showed them that the Spyder would not start and had a DESS error message on the display. It sat for 3 days waiting for a tech to run a diagnostic. By then it had dried out and was again starting. Even though it was towed into the shop with the DESS error code and none of the keys working, BRP warranty wanted them to now re-create the problem by hand washing the Spyder before authorizing warranty action and repair. Of course the one washing did not re-activate the code. BRP still will not authorize the warranty work to be done at this time until it comes back into the shop again for the same problem. This is absurd. I left the Spyder at the dealership under the same warranty work order and told them to re-contact BRP for authorization to proceed under the factory warranty. I have requested that the wiring harness, the harness connectors, and the back of the fuse boxes be sealed or replace. In addition, after researching the problem, I have requested that also the DESS module be replaced with an updated version and the ignition switch be replaced to avoid another DESS error problem.

I have contacted BRP customer care with documentation of all the mentioned incidents asking for assistance and authorization to repair the defects. I am waiting for a reply. I do not know think this water intrusion problem is a unique problem to our bike, or has occurred to others. BRP was great to work for on another warranty problem when I first bought the Spyder and it had a defective shifter module so I am a little surprised at their inaction on this issue. Anyone with advise or have a similar problem with water intrusion and the DESS problem?

I will update my post when I hear back from BRP customer support. Thanks Paul