WARNING -SPYDER RS SE5 2012 WARNING

[BajaRon]

Hi,
just wanted to confirm, are the shift point recommendations only for the se5,or does it apply to the sm5 also? As the centrifugal clutch doesn't apply here, I wasn't sure.
Tia
Fas

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

Since all Spyders create the same HP & Torque at the same RPM, the same shift points are a good rule of thumb for any Spyder. However, a manual transmission will not suffer from low shift points like the SE models will. Still, if you lug the 998 you will eventually create problems regardless of model.

As alluded to in previous posts, 'Lugging' an engine has many parameters, only one of which is RPM. The harder the engine has to work, the more RPM you need to keep from lugging it. The easier the task, the less RPM is required to avoid 'Lugging'. So, other than the SE clutch lock-up RPM requirement, you can't realistically put a hard RPM number to this topic. And I think therein lies the.... Ahhh.... discussion shall we call it?

As examples (not absolutes), if you were going uphill into a headwind with a heavy load, it may require a minimum of 5,000 RPM. Turn around with the same load and you'd probably be fine at 3,500 RPM (even lower on an SM model because you don't have the clutch plate lock up issue).

On another note; an apology is due to the OP. And I, for one, am glad that I was wrong in my assessment of his post. I sincerely hope that something good comes from this thread for him.

 

[Questions]

Concerning all the comments reguarding speed and rpms, at the time of the last incident I got caught in a sand storm. Visibility was less than 50 feet. Speed and rpms was just a guess, I was trying to keep from getting injured or worse. Pulling off to the side of the road according to the readout it said 4th gear & check engine light was on. I was sort of in panic mode so I really didn't look at the rpms or gear when the transmission went out. Everyone has been in a situation where you've had to do a panic stop and I'll bet you didn't look at your rpms or speed at that time.
Thanks to everyone with their help on the code and it's meaning. That still doesn't change the fact that BRP says they don't know how to fix it.

 

[Jeriatric]

Minimum sustained RPM

:bdh:

:roflblack:


If you DO NOT trust those who advise keeping your sustained R's @ 4K plus.

Follow the advice of those who say it's NOT necessary.

It's your spyder, and, your money.

:doorag:

 

[Pennyrick]

BRP needs to retrofit the tachs

Probably be good for BRP to send out a transparent overlay for all the tachs on machines using the 990 engine with two caution lines.

One @ 4,200 RPM (yellow) indicating the lowest allowable under load and maybe @ 9,500 (red) indicating 'we're not generating additional power any longer'.

 

[msj4848]

As long as we are asking, maybe a "greatest fun-factor" range in shiny blue from 7k-9k? :thumbup:

 

[jScotD]

in all my years of riding

I never looked at the tach.. some of my machines didn't have them.. I played it by ear and feel.. since my ears are gone , I play it my feel.. if it feels good do it.. so says Mr Natural

 

[missouriboy]

Since all Spyders create the same HP & Torque at the same RPM, the same shift points are a good rule of thumb for any Spyder. However, a manual transmission will not suffer from low shift points like the SE models will. Still, if you lug the 998 you will eventually create problems regardless of model.

As alluded to in previous posts, 'Lugging' an engine has many parameters, only one of which is RPM. The harder the engine has to work, the more RPM you need to keep from lugging it. The easier the task, the less RPM is required to avoid 'Lugging'. So, other than the SE clutch lock-up RPM requirement, you can't realistically put a hard RPM number to this topic. And I think therein lies the.... Ahhh.... discussion shall we call it?

As examples (not absolutes), if you were going uphill into a headwind with a heavy load, it may require a minimum of 5,000 RPM. Turn around with the same load and you'd probably be fine at 3,500 RPM (even lower on an SM model because you don't have the clutch plate lock up issue).

On another note; an apology is due to the OP. And I, for one, am glad that I was wrong in my assessment of his post. I sincerely hope that something good comes from this thread for him.

I clicked "Me Too" on Post #49 because it described exactly how I run my SE5; 3500 minimum for cruising with no load, although I generally cruise at 4K or more. If I need some oomph I downshift first. All our roads around here are boringly flat, but it's quite windy all the time.

I've not had any clutch or transmission problems, and just rolled up 18,000 miles last week. But I wonder: am I damaging the clutch by allowing RPM to drop to 3500 before downshifting? I've always relied on the postings here that say total lockup occurs at least by 3400 RPM.

I wish the instrument panel had an idiot light that stays on while the clutch is NOT locked up. Now that would cinch this debate! (Hey, why not? Locomotives have one to indicate Wheel Slip.)

 

[spyderyderjim]

Put Spyder RT SE5 in "Trailer mode" (after repaired with new "gearbox position sensor

Concerning all the comments reguarding speed and rpms, at the time of the last incident I got caught in a sand storm. Visibility was less than 50 feet. Speed and rpms was just a guess, I was trying to keep from getting injured or worse. Pulling off to the side of the road according to the readout it said 4th gear & check engine light was on. I was sort of in panic mode so I really didn't look at the rpms or gear when the transmission went out. Everyone has been in a situation where you've had to do a panic stop and I'll bet you didn't look at your rpms or speed at that time.
Thanks to everyone with their help on the code and it's meaning. That still doesn't change the fact that BRP says they don't know how to fix it.

Hi Bob,
Thankful you made it through the 50+ mph sandstorm!
After dealer mechanic replaces "gearbox position sensor":
Put your Spyder RT SE5 in "Trailer" mode, ECM will not let you shift until above 4,000+ rpm.
I ran my 2011 & 2013 RT SE5 in "trailer" mode all the years/miles I rode them.
Don't be afraid to rev RT up to 6,500 shifting if you like, the V-twin loves high rpm, as you know.
Sorry you got all the negative bashing by a few "think they know it all's" but no hands on experience; that is why several experienced people have stopped helping on blog.
Hang in there to get it repaired, Spyder RT's are a blast to ride!!!
I rode FJR 1300 Yamaha many thousand miles in San Diego hills/tight curves, Julian pie run, etc.).
Enjoy.
Jim

 

[Rick H.]

I don't own a Spyder...yet, but I have had a couple out for rides and I have to admit they are truly fun machines to be on. I currently own a BMW K1600 GTL and while it is a great motorcycle in it's own right, it does have some faults I don't care for. One fault is that it doesn't like to be ridden much below 3500 rpm's in lower gears. If you do so it gives you feedback via clunking and banging from the slipper clutch and drivetrain lash. The only cure is to jack up your rpm's. When K1600 owners first started complaining of this issue many other owners started calling the "complainers" out as trolls, or just people looking to complain about something. I was one of the complainers as I didn't think I should have to ride a flagship motorcycle at 4,000 rpm to maintain smoothness in the driveline and boy did I take a hit from the BMW loyalists. As time progressed more and more K1600 owners began complaining about the same issue and after a while dealers started calling the Mothership reporting these complaints. In some instances there really was a mechanical problem which resulted in entire transmissions being replaced. Since these complaints have grown more numerous there have been some changes to as of yet unknown K1600 driveline components, in an effort by BMW to eliminate or at least reduce the driveline noise at lower rpm's.

My real point is, be it a persons 1st or 1000th post, it shouldn't really matter how many posts someone has on a website forum when they chime in with a problem they are having. In many respects some of the forum members here reminded me of several forum members over on the BMW side. They were quick to shoot from the hip and accuse the person with a complaint of wrongdoing only to find out later there may have been some truth to the complaint. I would like to commend those here that did that and later offered an apology to the OP, when they realized they may have jumped the gun by saying he was a troll or some other such thing. Under the same circumstance those apologies would probably never have come out in a BMW forum. Kudos to Spyder owners! That's one of reasons I really enjoy this forum.


Rick

 

[Magdave]

Hi Bob,
Thankful you made it through the 50+ mph sandstorm!
After dealer mechanic replaces "gearbox position sensor":
Put your Spyder RT SE5 in "Trailer" mode, ECM will not let you shift until above 4,000+ rpm.
I ran my 2011 & 2013 RT SE5 in "trailer" mode all the years/miles I rode them.
Don't be afraid to rev RT up to 6,500 shifting if you like, the V-twin loves high rpm, as you know.
Sorry you got all the negative bashing by a few "think they know it all's" but no hands on experience; that is why several experienced people have stopped helping on blog.
Hang in there to get it repaired, Spyder RT's are a blast to ride!!!
I rode FJR 1300 Yamaha many thousand miles in San Diego hills/tight curves, Julian pie run, etc.).
Enjoy.
Jim

:firstplace:and why I made the suggestion I did. :thumbup:

 

[AZCowboy]

I have met and rode behind Bob who's RS transmission went out in a 50+ mph sand storm and he doesn't lug his trans when I rode behind him. With my 2012 RT Limited SE5 I can't keep up with him. Out here were we live we have a lot of wind. I was going with a group from Kingman, AZ to Flagstaff, AZ up the winding highway going up the mountain. I was at approx 7,000 rpm's doing approx 90 mph when a steady wind hit us and I felt like I was standing still plus my rpm's dropped but not my speed. So that is what it was like when he hit the sand storm. The transmission itself wasn't the problem but the elec shift control is the problem. That was the problem of mine and some others. He had his replaced once and it went out again. BRP doesn't know it's own codes that is why they will not replace his and mind you that they never looked to see if replaced before. When mine went were it shows you 5th gear instead of the 5 it had a "E" and they don't know what that means. I had to keep shutting down my unit and restart (reboot) it to clear it to run for a short time. They didn't want to replace mine with all the codes that came up after being cleared. This problem only seems to be with the 2012 SE5 so far. This is the 8th major problem I have had out of 10. I have written 5 high level personal at the main offices and the only thing they seemed to care about was my remark that they don't respond to the customers. They will not let you or the dealer talk to a tech of which I did once and what a waste of time. You can make a compliant but seems to go to the dead file.
I have fun with my unit don't get me wrong but because of BRP themselves I will not buy another BRP product and I own a 2004 Quest 650 Max ATV which is a work horse. I have been told from other owners of Spyder that in 30 mins I have cured their heat problems and gas fumes. Why can't BRP do that???

 

[Wazoo]

Downshifting to a stop

are you collectively suggesting that rolling to a stop and letting the bike auto-downshift at 2,500 rpm will damage the clutch/tranny? that I should be, when rolling to a stop, manually downshifting at 4k rpm, which as you know creates a lot of heat in that gearbox. Please clarify.

 

[vided]

WTF

are you collectively suggesting that rolling to a stop and letting the bike auto-downshift at 2,500 rpm will damage the clutch/tranny? that I should be, when rolling to a stop, manually downshifting at 4k rpm, which as you know creates a lot of heat in that gearbox. Please clarify.

this rattling on about rpm's is nuts. all i do now is look at the tach.
i might as well be texting. i always rode by sound and feel, but according to this and
other posts you must watch the tach or fry the clutch or tranny.
a good portion of the roads i ride on are 20-35 mph's. like 1st gear at 5k+, that is not a relaxing ride. downshifting from 2nd to 1st at 4k just makes the bike SCREAM.
i just find this very frustrating but do appreciate the info. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[missouriboy]

are you collectively suggesting that rolling to a stop and letting the bike auto-downshift at 2,500 rpm will damage the clutch/tranny? that I should be, when rolling to a stop, manually downshifting at 4k rpm, which as you know creates a lot of heat in that gearbox. Please clarify.

NO, not at all. The minimum 3500 figure is for when the engine is under load, not when "rolling to a stop." When under load, an "unlocked" clutch is slipping, and this causes undue wear on it. It's like driving a stick-shift car with your foot halfway on the clutch all the time, instead of letting it stay fully engaged.

The automatic downshift should be fully safe, that's what the "automatic" timing is calibrated for. I do downshift myself, mostly for the engine braking effect, but not so much as to make the engine scream with unduly high rpm.

Ideally, whether upshifting or downshifting, you want your transmission to disengage, shift gears, and re-engage, without it slipping the clutch at all.

 

[isthatahemi]

A whole lot of guessing going on here

In spite of the (seemingly), widely held opinion that the Spyder needs high RPM all the time. I will whole-heartedly disagree. Mine runs just fine between 3000 - 4000 rpm all the time at lower speeds. It does not vibrate or shudder, and it sounds terrific. There is also ample power to accelerate as long as one is above 3000 (at lower speeds). The SE5 I drove previously was not happy an any RPM below 5000, although it was pretty easy to tell when the clutch was engaged, and when it wasn't.


The RPM issue is one of transmission preservation, not engine preservation, higher RPMs are just a waste of fuel, and needless wear and tear.

Just my opinion...

 

[isthatahemi]

4th gear at 45 is NOT good Bob -- despite your opinion.

You do not begin to have power until 4500 rpm's. A lot of people are hung-up on making sure they at least are at the clutch-lock rpm's (3200 +/- 200) -- however one will find they will eventually have drivetrain problems if they run their 900 series SE Spyders like that. ...
...

So what RPM does your car or truck run? Just a hair under the torque peak? I don't think so, I runs the lowest RPM that it can smoothly generate the require power to move it down the road. There is ample torque as low as 3K, so lets not confuse power needs with the need to preserve the centrifugal clutch on SE5's

 

[MikeinGA]

My Can Am Spyder while in 4th gear, on a 2 lane highway in Arizona, the transmission went out. Was going approximately 45 miles per hour in a heavy wind when I lost the transmission completely. Could not shift up or down, all I could do was to limp to the side of the road. Mine is one of 3 bikes to have this same problem, that I know of. Bike in shop for 3 weeks now, technical support will not help, they know what the code is, but don't know what it means or how to fix it, according to service manager. This is the 3rd transmission failure I have had with less than 8,000 miles on the bike. If this would have happened on an 8 lane freeway and being in the 2nd or 3rd lane, with heavy traffic, there would be no place to go and possibly cause a terrible accident. Anyone with any information please reply. Thanks, Bob
After reading some comments felt the need to say: A, not a computer person. B, used to live in San Diego. C, I know how to ride this bike and D, this is for real.

I had the same problem. It's probably the shifter on the left side of the handlebars that you shift with.

Mike