Magic Man
Registered User
When it comes to being able to run a Spyder on a Dyno there is NO MAGIC! :yikes:
Vehicles that have VSS and or ABS all use the same basic operating design parameters. Almost all these systems use magnetic pick ups on the wheels to count the speed of each wheels revolutions or RPMs.
Depending on the desired parameters the design engineer wanted for this system, the "moment threshold" is programmed into the VSS/ABS computer.
Basicly that means once one or more of the wheels has an "X" greater RPM difference than the other wheels then the VSS/ABS system kicks in trying to always keep all the wheels turning at relatively the same rate.
So, if you are braking and one or more wheel starts turning significantly slower than the others (locking up) it then uses the ABS controller to modulate the braking force to that wheel until it is once again turning at the same RPMs as the other wheels. This of course is done at almost light speed as the computer monitors and modulates the brakes as needed to keep all the wheels within the design parameters for that system.
Now, the traction control portion of the VSS operates almost the same exact way but in reverse. It sees if one of the wheels is spinning too fast and than uses both the ABS control unit to try to slow it down and even can cut out engine power if needed to further keep all the wheels spinning at the same RPMs.
How the computer knows if it should be in the ABS mode or VSS mode is by the switch on the brake pedal that then tells the computer you are trying to brake and to switch from VSS to ABS mode.
Other items in the VSS mode such as yaw sensor and such also come into play with VSS but that is another whole topic.
The reason I'm telling you how this all works is recently some companies are acting like they have some "Magic" way they can run a Spyder on a Dyno without the VSS kicking in.
I'm here to say there is "NO MAGIC" on how this works and even a homeowner could unhook the sensors to be able to do a Dyno run themselves. So, be careful when you "buy your snake oil" from some people as there is nothing special they are doing to do this other than pulling the sensors out and zip tying them to the frame.
Our testing has show that on SM5s to bypass the VSS for a Dyno run all you have to do is quite easily pull the 4 sensors out of their holders by removing the small 10mm headed bolt on each one and zip tie them to the frame out of the way.
With the sensors each not "seeing" any RPMs the computer does not know that the rear wheel is turning faster than the front as all 4 sensors read zero RPMs all the time. It then thinks everything is "OK" as it thinks all the wheels are staying within the normal operating parameters.
This is not conjecture here as we have not only been able to test this out for running the bike stationary like on a Dyno, but have also been able to due some real killer multi gear burnouts with no VSS codes, limp modes or other "nanny" problems. Our testing has also shown no interference by the VSS system all the way up to our top test speed of 80 mph or 6000 RPMs in 5th.
Please note: This testing was done by professionals under controlled conditions and should not be tried by anyone at home. I would never recommend any of you try running your Spyder without the VSS/ABS functioning as that could cause harm. personal injury or possible death to both you and or your Spyder.
Enough for the CYA. :shocked:
This testing showed the SM5 Spyder will now no longer have any VSS interference when operated like this. Nor will it have VSS codes or go into limp mode whatsoever. However it also has shown that the speedometer does not function in this configuration as the speedometer receives it's signal from the rear wheel sensors.
The reason I have said SM5 over and over again here is that this will not work on an SE5. Again our testing has shown that because the SE5 uses vehicle speed inputs to control the downshifting of the Spyder, that without the speed signal coming into the computer the Spyder will not shift out of first gear.
Sorry SE5 guys.
Also, some other people have asked what the 4th sensor on the rear wheel is for as the Spyder only has 3 wheels? The reason is the BRP has taken an off the shelf 4 wheel VSS system made by Bosch and adapted it to the Spyder, (why reinvent the wheel) So all they did is take both the rear wheel sensors that would normally go to different wheels on a car and mount both of them on the rear wheel of the Spyder. This works well and helps keep the overall cost of the Spyder down by using off the shelf products.
I hope this has helped all of you have a bit better understanding on how your VSS/ABS system on your Spyder works and that there is "NO MAGIC" in any of this.
So, next time somebody acts like only they have the "secret" on how to run a Spyder on a Dyno without VSS problems, you can all just shake your head and smile. :thumbup:
MM
Vehicles that have VSS and or ABS all use the same basic operating design parameters. Almost all these systems use magnetic pick ups on the wheels to count the speed of each wheels revolutions or RPMs.
Depending on the desired parameters the design engineer wanted for this system, the "moment threshold" is programmed into the VSS/ABS computer.
Basicly that means once one or more of the wheels has an "X" greater RPM difference than the other wheels then the VSS/ABS system kicks in trying to always keep all the wheels turning at relatively the same rate.
So, if you are braking and one or more wheel starts turning significantly slower than the others (locking up) it then uses the ABS controller to modulate the braking force to that wheel until it is once again turning at the same RPMs as the other wheels. This of course is done at almost light speed as the computer monitors and modulates the brakes as needed to keep all the wheels within the design parameters for that system.
Now, the traction control portion of the VSS operates almost the same exact way but in reverse. It sees if one of the wheels is spinning too fast and than uses both the ABS control unit to try to slow it down and even can cut out engine power if needed to further keep all the wheels spinning at the same RPMs.
How the computer knows if it should be in the ABS mode or VSS mode is by the switch on the brake pedal that then tells the computer you are trying to brake and to switch from VSS to ABS mode.
Other items in the VSS mode such as yaw sensor and such also come into play with VSS but that is another whole topic.
The reason I'm telling you how this all works is recently some companies are acting like they have some "Magic" way they can run a Spyder on a Dyno without the VSS kicking in.
I'm here to say there is "NO MAGIC" on how this works and even a homeowner could unhook the sensors to be able to do a Dyno run themselves. So, be careful when you "buy your snake oil" from some people as there is nothing special they are doing to do this other than pulling the sensors out and zip tying them to the frame.
Our testing has show that on SM5s to bypass the VSS for a Dyno run all you have to do is quite easily pull the 4 sensors out of their holders by removing the small 10mm headed bolt on each one and zip tie them to the frame out of the way.
With the sensors each not "seeing" any RPMs the computer does not know that the rear wheel is turning faster than the front as all 4 sensors read zero RPMs all the time. It then thinks everything is "OK" as it thinks all the wheels are staying within the normal operating parameters.
This is not conjecture here as we have not only been able to test this out for running the bike stationary like on a Dyno, but have also been able to due some real killer multi gear burnouts with no VSS codes, limp modes or other "nanny" problems. Our testing has also shown no interference by the VSS system all the way up to our top test speed of 80 mph or 6000 RPMs in 5th.
Please note: This testing was done by professionals under controlled conditions and should not be tried by anyone at home. I would never recommend any of you try running your Spyder without the VSS/ABS functioning as that could cause harm. personal injury or possible death to both you and or your Spyder.
Enough for the CYA. :shocked:
This testing showed the SM5 Spyder will now no longer have any VSS interference when operated like this. Nor will it have VSS codes or go into limp mode whatsoever. However it also has shown that the speedometer does not function in this configuration as the speedometer receives it's signal from the rear wheel sensors.
The reason I have said SM5 over and over again here is that this will not work on an SE5. Again our testing has shown that because the SE5 uses vehicle speed inputs to control the downshifting of the Spyder, that without the speed signal coming into the computer the Spyder will not shift out of first gear.
Sorry SE5 guys.
Also, some other people have asked what the 4th sensor on the rear wheel is for as the Spyder only has 3 wheels? The reason is the BRP has taken an off the shelf 4 wheel VSS system made by Bosch and adapted it to the Spyder, (why reinvent the wheel) So all they did is take both the rear wheel sensors that would normally go to different wheels on a car and mount both of them on the rear wheel of the Spyder. This works well and helps keep the overall cost of the Spyder down by using off the shelf products.
I hope this has helped all of you have a bit better understanding on how your VSS/ABS system on your Spyder works and that there is "NO MAGIC" in any of this.
So, next time somebody acts like only they have the "secret" on how to run a Spyder on a Dyno without VSS problems, you can all just shake your head and smile. :thumbup:
MM
Last edited:
opcorn: :doorag:
