Very disapointed with BRP and their product!

[Farmbanker]

I haven't been on this forum in a while. Your thread struck me, I can relate. I bought a brand new 2012 RTS and at mile 86 the engine blew. If you read my threads you will see I was also very unhappy. However, a year and 7,000 miles later, the "rebuilt" engine is running great. I would ride it 500+ miles from home confidently and have. It was a new engine that BRP provided since my bike had so few miles when it blew. BRP was reasonable about it. I didn't get a new bike either but my tech is very good and so he got to personally make sure things looked right as he completely rebuilt it. Put a few thousand miles on the bike and you might feel differently like I did. Maybe not......but there is the chance that you may have a machine that will now run for 100,000. Don't throw in the towel just yet. You have the right to feel frustrated.....I felt that way too. Took a few good long rides to make that feeling go away. I hope it does for you too.


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[Debedwards93]

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

You will be OK and you know that is the first thing I thought. Too co incidental that the engine blew after service but they rebuild race car engines all the time. Personally I would rather have one that had special attention than a new one. You know every little thing has been checked not just slapped together. Just run it and get that old feeling back.:thumbup: It may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Enjoy the ridehyea: Make sure you check the oil after service dealers have made mistakes on the fill. I told you the engine will go 100k at least if taken care of.

One more thing that "rebuilt " may have come from a 1k mi. bike ya never know but it is as good as new if done right.

 

[NancysToy]

So you are saying it is ok if a bike with only 4300 miles on it can bite the dust! I would expect that from something with 20-30000, not 5000. In any book a vehicle with that low of mileage should not blow an engine.

It is not fun, and it should not be expected, but it happens from time to time. If it did not, we wouldn't need warrantees. It is the response of the dealership and manufacturer that really matters. Yours has done a better than average job of making this right. Instead of having the damage repaired, they went to the extent of providing a rebuilt engine, with new parts that made it as good or better than what they replaced. Accepting the fact that they did more than they were required to should be a comfort, not a disappointment. You should expect a good long life from your machine now...but if it fails again, I expect they will take care of it.

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

Under these circumstances, getting the rebuilt engine, which was rebuilt by the factory and not the dealer that may have screwed things up, is just what you should want. Having had them dismantle and repair the engine themselves would have been a huge worry. I would also just consider having had them give you the oil as a goodwill gesture, not a crime or mark of incompetence.

On the other hand, advising you not to check the oil, or even to check it only every 2,000 miles is just plain irresponsible. It is the owner's responsibility to check the oil. BRP's maintenance schedule calls for you to do so every 300 miles. That is probably excessive, but I would do so after every service (in case the dealer screwed up), and at least every 500 until you see how the oil usage goes, and no more than every 1,000 thereafter if the oil usage will allow. The dealer should have showed you how to check the oil, among other things, when you took delivery. Finding another dealer might be appropriate. If not, I'd at least talk to the dealership owner and ask why his staff failed to do so. Please also note that there are other necessary maintenance tasks that the owner should perform periodically, like checking tire pressure. Motorcycles need closer attention and are more hands-on than the average automobile. Study the Owners Guide and have someone go over what you need to do and when.

Now get out there and ride the wheels off that thing!

 

[spydercatjohn]

I would also be unhappy getting a rebuilt engine on a bike only 4 months. A 4 month old bike is still new since it was recently made (dictionary definition). Boo to BRP!!

 

[DrewNJ]

A rebuilt motor is not necessarily inferior. It can actually be superior to one built on the assembly line.


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[Barlock]

Oil Change Procedure

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

Take a look at this:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...tory-Instructions-for-changing-Oil-and-Filter

You'll find it very helpfull.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

Deb, when you read your Owner's Manual and it said to check your oil every 300 miles didn't it occur to you to question your dealer on why they would say to never check your oil?

 

[murphybrown]

Re checking oil....totally my responsibility

I read my manual but this checking oil was just way to complicated (so I told myself). But then I read and learned the importance of oil in our wonderful Spyders. Still thought it an UGH job...until Scotty took the time and patience to "make me" take off the panels and check my oil correctly. I never get on the Spyder without extra oil on board (along with funnel). I have learned (after about the first 20k) that my Spyder likes about 11-12 oz every 900 miles (+ or - a few). I am so NOT mechanical....but I do know that it is my responsibility to know my machine by reading my manual (and trust me when I say reading a manual is not my idea of "fun"). Then once I found this incredible bunch of incredibly caring and helpful SL's I ask any and everything and get wonderful help. I do believe that alot of my "dumb luck" with my Ms Spyder was pure ignorance on all things mechanical. Now I have enough knowledge to be dangerous and am sure that I will fuss a whole lot more when I get the new ryde next year...but I will always come right back here and ask my :yikes: questions. Totally accepting everyone's opinion but bottom line decision and responsiblity is mine. I agree with Dave and Scotty and others. I get the strong negative feelings/emotions when you spend that much $$ and sooooo want perfection. But unfortunately that is not real life...crap happens that puts all of us below the line...From what I read here I have to agree that I think your dealer and BRP are doing what is right by your Spyder and you. Jump on that sweet machine and ryde it like you never had a problem. You have the best warranty available and rest in that insurance/assurance. :yes:

 

[SpyderFun]

Your reply is well stated. I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry that the OP is dissatisfied, but the response by BRP was appropriate...and pretty darned timely, all things considered. JMHO

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!

Scotty,

In the past, you and I have agreed and disagreed on various issues based on our mechanical backgrounds and experiences but on this issue....PLEASE take another look!

The owner states he put 800 miles on his ride AFTER having it serviced by an "authorized dealer" employing "BRP certified technicians".

Sorry but a blown engine after being serviced by a "BRP Dealer" is suspicious at best given their explainition of a "stuck oil pressure regulator".
Q1. How do they (BRP or its Dealer) know this was in-fact the cause of the failure (could be more serious than this)?
Q2. How many other owners have a similar experience with a "stuck oil pressure regulator" (if none, could this be a "Lemmon Engine"?)?
Q3. Has this part been previously identified as a "known potential failure" by BRP (if so, request for a NEW engine is reasonable)?
Q4. If so, when did BRP know?
Q5. When did BRP notify their dealers and owners upon knowing such knowledge (again, potential for new engine seems reasonable)?
ETC.....ETC...

Far too many unanswered questions to just accept their answer as acceptable, or even plausible, given it is basically a new engine that is barely broken in (5,100 total miles = 4,300 miles at time of service + 800 post service miles). Unless BRP expects blown engines at just over 5k miles.

Finally, would ANY of us pay full-value for a motorcycle with a "rebuilt" engine vs. having the OEM engine (i.e. new engine)?

Just My 2-Cents.....

 

[flaggerphil]

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!

Maybe I missed it, but where in Florida do you live and who is your dealer?

 

[cuznjohn]

just my two cents

as a rule most engines that blow are replaced with a re manufactured one, even in cars. but i do feel you should call brp and ask for a new and not rebuilt. if you feel the top end might be contaminated with fragments tell them that also, and make sure you ask what kind of warranty you get with the new rebuilt motor. it will most likely be 1 year but get them to give you everything in writing.

 

[Bob Denman]

I guess that you're just going to have to live with being unhappy... :dontknow:
Sorry! pps:

Or... Try riding the bike, and see if the "new" engine performs as it should.

 

[Cleg]

Oil check

It is not fun, and it should not be expected, but it happens from time to time. If it did not, we wouldn't need warrantees. It is the response of the dealership and manufacturer that really matters. Yours has done a better than average job of making this right. Instead of having the damage repaired, they went to the extent of providing a rebuilt engine, with new parts that made it as good or better than what they replaced. Accepting the fact that they did more than they were required to should be a comfort, not a disappointment. You should expect a good long life from your machine now...but if it fails again, I expect they will take care of it.


Under these circumstances, getting the rebuilt engine, which was rebuilt by the factory and not the dealer that may have screwed things up, is just what you should want. Having had them dismantle and repair the engine themselves would have been a huge worry. I would also just consider having had them give you the oil as a goodwill gesture, not a crime or mark of incompetence.

On the other hand, advising you not to check the oil, or even to check it only every 2,000 miles is just plain irresponsible. It is the owner's responsibility to check the oil. BRP's maintenance schedule calls for you to do so every 300 miles. That is probably excessive, but I would do so after every service (in case the dealer screwed up), and at least every 500 until you see how the oil usage goes, and no more than every 1,000 thereafter if the oil usage will allow. The dealer should have showed you how to check the oil, among other things, when you took delivery. Finding another dealer might be appropriate. If not, I'd at least talk to the dealership owner and ask why his staff failed to do so. Please also note that there are other necessary maintenance tasks that the owner should perform periodically, like checking tire pressure. Motorcycles need closer attention and are more hands-on than the average automobile. Study the Owners Guide and have someone go over what you need to do and when.

Now get out there and ride the wheels off that thing!

Really... What is the big deal:hun: checking the oil should be normal for any and all riders, or user of any motorized piece of equipment. After a ride take a minute and remove the panel and check the oil. Simple...not like changing the oil :gaah:every time you ride. I think back over the years when we would 'rebuild' and engine to improve it's performance. Usually better than OEM if not we would :chat: about it and figure out why. Albeit I agree, 5100 miles should not be enough to cause failure, it is machine made and sometimes, just sometimes, the material is weak and breaks. It sux I know, but I certainly think the dealers prompt actions and reasonable response from BRP should be considered. I would ride on brother, ryde on and enjoy the heck out of the air in your face and the comfort for you butt!!! Good luck and enjoy.

Oh yea, an extra qt of oil is worth it to be on the safe side. I do it....Just saying!

 

[ValleyRider]

Dissapointed with BRP

I suggest you contact the Council of Better Business Bureau in Arlington VA. Your state has a lemon law. Spyders are covered under the lemon law. You may file for arbitration with the BBB. The BBB will assist you without cost to you.

Good luck

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!

 

[Spyder4Tess]

Sure,a brand new motor would be nice but when you buy a vehicle you are also agreeing to the companies warranty procedures.
It sounds like BRP full filled their obligation.

 

[cuznjohn]

don't get me wrong

i would be the biggest pest they had about getting a new motor but as long as i get full coverage on a re conditioned one there is nothing you can really do

 

[Dragonrider]

It's threads like these that make me really glad I now own a Honda (again)......

While there are some things I miss about the Spyder, there's more that I don't.

 

[taken]

Just read through the whole thread. I agree with those who would insist on a new complete motor. There was a bit of misinformation earlier too. A short block is not a complete engine minus the bolt on accessories. It is a complete lower. The heads are not included. A long block is complete including the heads. And yes, they along with the trans could be contaminated. Tough part about that is, it could be until after the warranty runs out before additional damage occurs if the swarf is small enough.

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

At the risk of being bashed i'm going to comment on this subject. Since I turn wrenches for a living as a master tech and on BRP products no less (Evinrude) I really think the proper procedure would be a NEW replacement engine not remanufactured. Warranty should just replace the complete (less bolt on's) engine based on the age and mileage of the unit. Now if he was out of "factory" warranty and into the BEST protection then a reman engine would come into play. I read all kind's of posts on here about warranty and dealer service and it just blows me away that us (end user) have to put up with this crap. I can tell you for sure that these types of services are NOT normal for BRP at least from the Evinrude side of things but I can't see how the Can-am side would be that different? I had a customer with a 2008 Evinrude E-tec 225HO that was in his 3rd year of the factory warranty and we had a crazy problem with the engine "dropping out" at idle. I could confirm this by logging data however we tried replacing many parts, EMM, wiring harness and various sensors. End result BRP finally gave him a 2011 complete fully dressed powerhead! I never had one problem getting the help I needed to keep this customer happy, period! Food for thought.... A happy customer tells no complaints but a unhappy customer tells everybody he sees!

 

[spyder3]

You made it perfectly clear. It was new when you bought it, but had 4300 miles on it by the time it broke. I'm afraid that is used in anyone's dictionary. You really are getting an engine that is probably better mechanically than yours was before it broke. If the tech is thorough, and the rest of the oil system is thoroughly flushed and cleaned, you should not have any problems. This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly. It does not lower the vehicle's value in the least. I'd try to keep an open mind.

With the current dealer network horror stories and the fact that she just had the oil changed by this dealer prior to the catastrophe,.....That is two, to many if's for me to be comfortable with.