Understeering in curves

[triplethreat]

I guess I will just not mention the word "apex" as I see it can mean different things. I am a "late apex" type of driver. That graph shows exactly what I was trying to say. :bowdown:

I think where the misunderstanding in terminology is; you are saying enter from the inside of the curve. The entry is actually started at where you first turn (or on a 2 wheel motorcycle..where you start your lean in) and in the illustration, that would be when the bike is right next to the left black line and you transition from the bike going straight.....to starting the turn. The apex is obviously the center of the turn, and the ideal exit point is right back at the black line on the left. In a normal street scenario, that black line at the left would be the yellow or double yellow line that divides the two lanes of traffic. I'm pretty sure we are both thinking the same thing, but I just wanted to add some clarification so that no one thought that you should actually be at the inside part of the lane when they started their turn......on right hander like the one illustrated above.

 

[ARtraveler]

I think where the misunderstanding in terminology is; you are saying enter from the inside of the curve. The entry is actually started at where you first turn (or on a 2 wheel motorcycle..where you start your lean in) and in the illustration, that would be when the bike is right next to the left black line and you transition from the bike going straight.....to starting the turn. The apex is obviously the center of the turn, and the ideal exit point is right back at the black line on the left. In a normal street scenario, that black line at the left would be the yellow or double yellow line that divides the two lanes of traffic. I'm pretty sure we are both thinking the same thing, but I just wanted to add some clarification so that no one thought that you should actually be at the inside part of the lane when they started their turn......on right hander like the one illustrated above.

We are good. :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

[redrazor]

Thanks Flamewinger

:clap Flamewinger: FABULOUS Video!!! Really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing!:2thumbs:

 

[Revalden]

Time and experience........................

Look where you are going. Don't look down at the road. Look farther ahead. You will follow your eyes.

:agree: This was hard to do at first for me. Kind of like riding off road, if there are two rocks with just enough room between them for the tires LOOK EXACTLY AT THE SPACE, NOT AT EITHER ROCK. Look as far into the curve as you can see. Your brain knows what to do, let it.

 

[scorpion56]

Thanks everyone for all the good advice. This forum is so useful. I've spent time hunting down curves to practice on. I found that the postings about lane position and apex really made a huge difference into the effectiveness of my turns. And my confidence going thru them. I know that I learned all of that in moto school years ago (and it's in the Spyder manual), but the last many years on two wheels made me lazy I think.

 

[BajaRon]

The biggest problem for most people is looking a ways beyond the turn as soon as it is possible. Most people tend to look at the inside and outside lines in the road. It's called 'Target Fixation'. This approach turns you in to the arrow looking for something to hit. And will typically give you a bad line. The harder you concentrate on these 2 aspects (inside and outside painted lines/targets) the worse it will get. Looking down the road makes a big improvement, naturally. You don't have to force it.

Always practice at a speed that you're sure will be safe. Once you get good at the technical part, then you can start increasing speed. People also tend to do the opposite. They want to go for speed first, before they get a good grasp of the concept.

 

[PMK]

Ive got Vredsteins up front and I can definitely feel and hear them howling and sliding on hard turns.Its not much but more than my Kendas did.Im running my pressure at 18 up front and I think if I raised it a little it probably would help but since its only on very hard turns Ill leave it as is.BTW OP said its not possible to pick up indside tire but that's not true at all,Ive done it and seen many pics of guys with tire off ground,but nanny will kick in and bring it down.

Pretty certain the Vredsteins, while black, round and looking like tires are automotive all season tires, not performance tires. Typically performance tires are not as long lasting due to softer rubber compounds, but have more grip.

Our setup runs Federal Formosas AZ01 on the front, and a Yokohama s.Drive on the rear. Both are categorized by the tire manufacturer as high performance tires, not touring or all season. The Yokohama is a hot weather tire and even has a warning regarding not to use them in cold weather.

I would suspect, the Spyders being lighter than cars, they generate less weight on each tire and softer compounds will work well with reasonable mileage before worn out.

 

[Tideman]

I have a 2015 RT and 38,000 miles later it corners like a Buick, unless you upgrade your suspension. I have learned to live with it, and follow cornering speeds as posted, unless I know the curve. If I'm on the Eway and no ones around I may dive into the curve or float up from the bottom. There's alway the brake.

 

[triplethreat]

The biggest problem for most people is looking a ways beyond the turn as soon as it is possible. Most people tend to look at the inside and outside lines in the road. It's called 'Target Fixation'. This approach turns you in to the arrow looking for something to hit. And will typically give you a bad line. The harder you concentrate on these 2 aspects (inside and outside painted lines/targets) the worse it will get. Looking down the road makes a big improvement, naturally. You don't have to force it.

Always practice at a speed that you're sure will be safe. Once you get good at the technical part, then you can start increasing speed. People also tend to do the opposite. They want to go for speed first, before they get a good grasp of the concept.

Ron, lots of truth in that bit of info. When Peggy and I were instructing/coaching with STT, we always talked about "Target Fixation" in the classroom sessions in the Novice group. Lot's of folks think that Target Fixation is just a bad thing, but if you dissect it into "pieces", it can become a valuable asset for cornering. Target Fixation, when used in a bad way, will likely get you in trouble pretty quickly, as your very likely to go where you are looking and fixated on. So the way that it can become a good thing is to use it as a "connect the dots" type of getting through the corner. On the corner approach and as you are getting ready to start the turn into the corner, quickly move your point of focus towards finding the apex of the corner. as the bike starts heading on a good line towards the apex, you then quickly start focusing on the the exit of the corner....you'll hit the apex and now, since you are already looking for the corner exit, that becomes your point of concentration. And again, as the bike starts heading to the corner exit and you know you are on a good line to hit that point, you move your eyes beyond the exit point and on down the road. The thing is, lots of us do this naturally over time and with practice....and we just don't even think about it....it's just what we do. But looking at it this way, and breaking the corner down into "pieces", generally always helped some of the newer riders to understand, practice, and execute the corner by taking it one piece at a time. So in that regard, that type of Target Fixation is a good thing.....just don't dwell too long on any one piece of the total corner. And of course, it is always better to work at this somewhat slowly, and keep building your skills until at some point, it will just be "the way you ride all the time".