To kill or not to kill (switch), that is the question

[Woodenfish]

Yes! Which is exactly the point being made regarding unnecessary failure points. If you've worked in the auto or electronics field, you understand why so many choose not to mess with known weak spots.

I’m a retired professional auto technician with decades of experience but I don’t take that as knowledge on Can Am motorcycles. I have read many schematics and am an expert in electronics only on the line of vehicles I serviced at new car dealerships throughout my career at both foreign and domestic. If I were to see a schematic drawing I might have a differing opinion. Knowing that I don’t I made certain assumptions.

I assume the wiring to the kill switch and ignition switch are all thin gauge low current carriers. When I hit the kill switch the engine ignition system circuit is broken. When I turn the ignition key switch a lot more current drawing devices is interrupted. My next assumption is that the ignition is on one relay while the other circuits I shut down with the key switch have their individual relays.

My final assumption is that I ease the current draw interruption by hitting the kill switch first breaking a load and then use the key switch to finish the shutdown process. Therefore I don’t understand how hitting the kill switch is going to increase wear on a low current switch. If there was a prior failure rate with the kill switch at one point I am at the mercy of the BRP engineers to remedy the problem. At the end of the day you it’s a personal choice where in an ideal world makes no difference. I guess I just like to make the job of stealing the motorcycle a little more different. Haha!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Woodenfish,

You might want to get a service manual for your RT. Go to www.canammanuals.com. I think you'll surprised how some of your assumptions don't jibe with the real world! :hun:

The kill switch takes one input of the Engine Control Module and takes it to ground to enable engine operation and breaks it so the input goes high to kill the engine.

The ignition switch makes/breaks three circuits. One is a 15 amp circuit that feeds all the various running lights, except head lights and fog lights. The second is a 10 amp circuit that feeds power to some modules such as the DESS, and on/off signal power to other modules such as the ECM and VCM. The third circuit is an off position circuit that takes the power input to the modules down to ground.

All of the heavy loads such as headlights are fed through relays directly from power fuses. The relays are activated by the ECM taking the coil negative sides to ground.

Almost all electrical devices on the Spyder are controlled by making/breaking the ground side, not the power side.

 

[Woodenfish]

So again, what is the problem in using the kill switch? By your description IdahoMtnSpder I’m not seeing it. I’m new to motorcycles, Spyders and this forum. Is there a well known manufactured gremlin lurking inside the kill switch ready to cause mayhem on my new $30K motorcycle that I need to know about?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Woodenfish,
......
Almost all electrical devices on the Spyder are controlled by making/breaking the ground side, not the power side.

And there have been a number of owners here on the Forum reporting (& lamenting :banghead: ) failures in their Kill Switches! . Nothing else, just the Kill Switch - but that means it's a case of 'Spyder no go' until it's fixed, usually involving a bit of a wait while the dealer orders in a RH Control Module (usually one of those long & expensive waits.... ) & then eventually finds time to fit it & check everything works again! :gaah:

So again, what is the problem in using the kill switch? By your description IdahoMtnSpder I’m not seeing it. I’m new to motorcycles, Spyders and this forum. Is there a well known manufactured gremlin lurking inside the kill switch ready to cause mayhem on my new $30K motorcycle that I need to know about?

Basically, YES - this Kill Switch failure appears to be more of problem on Spyders than for most other motorcycles, but going by the threads posted here, it's mainly if you always use the Kill Switch to shut your Spyder down....

Just Sayin'

 

[Woodenfish]

Thanks Peter, I’ll add the kill switch to this growing list of dubious parts on my new purchase. :banghead:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks Peter, I’ll add the kill switch to this growing list of dubious parts on my new purchase. :banghead:

There's no denying they are can provide Wonderful Ryding & be a real blast when they're working properly, with lotsa great concepts & devices included... it's just a shame that the execution of some of those concepts/devices & the quality of some of the inclusions hasn't quite been up to the standard that most expect from machines (or tires ) that cost as much as they do?! :dontknow:

Definitely not gonna give it back or stop ryding, but it's a shame they just don't seem to listen....

 

[Isopedella]

Last time I used the kill switch was on our local 42nd traverse.

I crawled back and shut it down.




Damit double up. Still getting the hang of this site. :yikes:

 

[jerrydonna]

ok I found it......... Now I understand what it is... I thought it was like a ejector seat for the rear rider

 

[Peter Aawen]

....

Dam double up. Still getting the hang of this site. :yikes:

Fixed it for you! :thumbup:

 

[cptjam]

I’ll put my MSF Safety Instructor hat on; use the engine cut off switch EVERY TIME you turn off the Spyder. This creates muscle memory. If you are about to crash, are on fire, going off the road……you are only going to do what you have trained to do. Do not remove your hand from the grip to turn off the vehicle! You are in a state of panic if one of those examples happen. We don’t think properly in a state of panic. If you have made it a habit to turn it off with the engine cut off switch, you will do just that, even if you are in a state of panic.
Now to put on my Spyder Tech hat: I have never (in thousands of customers) seen an engine cut off switch failure. Ever. I have read about one or two on here in over 12 years, and my suspicion is that someone used a pressure washer or something on that switch and damaged it. Don’t do that.
Use it like you are supposed to. Take a class, see what the professionals teach. Read the manual; see what the engineers and designers recommend.
SpyderAnn had a Thermal incident. When it happened, she promptly got off the road, and used the engine cut off switch. She escaped unharmed. The Spyder was incinerated.

 

[Isopedella]

I wondered where the kill switch turn off came from.
Muscle memory you say, great if you are on fire, about to crash of about to run off the road.

Really????.

Reckon if I were about to crash, on fire, going off the road the last thing I would be thinking of was to turn the bike off.

 

[cptjam]

Really. That’s where training comes in. Emergency procedures. Practice. Take the class. Learn. Practice more.
I guess shutting your eyes, swearing, and hoping for the best is a technique; just not a good one!

 

[Isopedella]

I guess our courses differ from yours .

The kill switch is not discussed.
Nor is if on fire, I will mention that on my next course.

I agree with the comment of shutting your eyes, swearing, and hoping for the best is a technique.
Along with of other counterproductive things.

Some of the things discussed at my last course I attended.
Lost or broken down.
Stop signs.
No passing lines.
Safe following distances.
Pressure and riding at your own pace.
Cornering.
Overtaking.
Braking.
MILO. mirrors indicate look move
Scanning at lights and intersections
Indicating
Tiredness
Hydration.


I have completed a couple of courses. I have done our Bronze - Silver twice. Once with my son. And about a dozen Gold courses.
Been legally riding since 1979 and ya know I learn something from every course.

 

[ButterSmooth]

The potential consequence of one poorly timed bump of that switch outweighs any dogmatic insistence on its use. I've considered using a drop of epoxy to disable it -- guess I can be overly dogmatic too. But, my decisions only effect me...

 

[Isopedella]

Ha. Reminds me of a situation I got into a few years back. Riding 2 up with the wife. 2009 Triumph America. Going downhill to a right hand sweeper. Just prior to tipping in for the corner I lost traction with both tyres. Something slippery on the road. Big wobble. Crikey! Its still upright. Great. Doing about 50mph now. Used my riding skills and a lot of luck I reckon to keep it upright with gentle steering left and right while sliding sideways and forwards. Kinda feathering the throttle now, hoping to pick up some traction. Trying to get a little forward momentum going and less of the sideways stuff. Now sliding in a curve with a small amount of forward motion. No real traction. There was a farm fence. A driveway. And a letterbox on a pole about 5m out from the fence. There was a drainage ditch along the road but a culvert where the driveway was. I was thinking this is really going to hurt, but hell im upright. I focused on the gap between the fence and the letterbox on the pole. Maybe I can do this. Give it a crack. Sliding towards the fence. A little more throttle. Forward curve type progress. Managed to get enough control to holeshot between the fence and the letterbox at about 30 or so. The wife bless her just sat still and quiet. Later on they said they saw us sliding and cut right and avoided that bit of road. I was the 2nd rider of about a dozen bikes. Awesome skills was mentioned when we stopped for a coffee ½ an hr later. Blokes shaking their heads. Hardly believing what they say. Awesome skills… and the like. I said I was lucky. Then I reflected on what had occurred and jumped on the phone and made a phone call about the substance on the road.

 

[FrogmanDave]

This thread has strayed a bunch.

 

[Isopedella]

Yeah Nah not really

Reflecting on the advice about you are on fire, about to crash of about to run off the road - hit the switch.

If I did hit the switch when I thought I may crash, before I decided to attempt to ride it out.
I would have crashed.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I guess our courses differ from yours .

The kill switch is not discussed.
......


I have completed a couple of courses. ..... and ya know I learn something from every course.

Same thing with our courses here in Oz, Isopedella, those I've taken & also those I've helped develop &/or deliver - been like that since the early/mid 80's when EFI engines became the norm rather than the exception. :thumbup:

As for how often these failures occur, a simple search here on 'Kill Switch' brings back 3 pages of results... on the first page alone, more than 8 of those are 'Kill Switch failures' that aren't purely operator error &/or someone toggling it as a gag. The Oz Forums I'm a regular reader of also report similar if not higher failure rates... :dontknow:

Admittedly, people do tend to come to Forums like this to report &/or resolve any problems they may be having with their particular machine, so we might tend to see more of the problems reported than most will ever encounter, but even so, it's clear that amongst those that use them, Kill Switch Failures on modern motorcycles are not an isolated or even an all that infrequent event.

Still, as with so many things, it's YOUR machine so it's YOUR choice what you do/how you shut it down; but personally, I choose not to get caught out, especially not somewhere remote or late at night, by anything as simple to avoid as an unnecessarily (over-)used Kill Switch failure ever again! :thumbup:

 

[Isopedella]

No longer a lone voice.

 

[rjinaz86323]

Kill switch

How many use the kill switch to shut the bike down?