To Choose a Blind Spot Mirror or a Blind Spot Detector - or Both?

[BertRemington]

I received my Innovv ThirdEYE today then engaged with them on adding the BSD/LCA/RCW disambiguation capabilities I wanted. Dialog got a bit testy with me concluding their device's firmware can be upgraded with those capabilities or else their website needs an improvement in accuracy.

It's a good device, better than KiWAV alternative, but not good enough for me. Still thinking through decision but will probably continue building my LiDAR-based alternative, now redesigned to incorporate RCW and better LCA and Paul will be getting a ThirdEYE at a discount.

 

[BertRemington]

I've got some good news on the radar-based blind spot detector marketplace: low cost.

But first a technical detail. The radar-based detectors operate in one of two frequency bands: 24GHz and 77-79GHz. The primary differences are detection distance: 30m/98ft for 24GHz and 50m/164ft for 77-79GHz, and price: 24GHz is cheaper that 77-79GHz.

Here's a typical 24GHz detector for $89 on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/404490017086/ That's from happylife8. Same thing from smartcity541 including the description. I really like the user interface. There are four warning lights, Yellow and Red on the left and Yellow and Red on the right. Yellow lights for adjacent lane LCA and and Red lights for current lane RCW. Read the description carefully -- not all 24GHz detectors have this user interface.

Here's a typical 77-79GHz detector for $152 on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/364493912095/ Same user interface and capabilities as the Innovv ThirdEYE for $100 cheaper. Unfortunately the user interface doesn't include the Red light feature of the 24GHz detectors. I will ask Innovv why the cheap 24GHz detectors have an RCW light and their expensive 77-79GHz detector doesn't.

!!!!!!!!!

Some 77-79GHz detectors have two indicating modes: Left and/or Right indicator Steady for LCA/BSD and both indicators Flashing for RCW. The descriptions take careful reading. The 77-79GHz eBay detector cited above has this capability.

The OEM website for these detectors is https://www.blindspotmonitor.com/product/motorcycle-blind-spot-monitor-77g/

 

[Peacekeeper6]

Choose a Blind Spot Mirror or a Blind Spot Detector or Both?

BLUF: a Blind Spot Mirror is a Seeing mechanism and a Blind Spot Detector is a Cueing mechanism.

In a response to a post about the Innovv ThirdEYE Blind Spot Detector, Mikey said:


A Blind Spot Mirror is a mechanical device with convex reflective surface supplementing the Spyder's mirrors to provide additional visual range without significant head or eye movement. The device may be stick-on to the Spyder mirrors (eg, Autozone "spot" mirrors or TricLED Wide-Vu mirrors) or the device may be additional mirrors (eg, handlebar mirrors or SAENG mirrors). Your "road watch" visual field must be adjusted to view the mirror (in my specific case it takes about 0.25sec for my eyes to turn and focus on the mirror). In all cases, the device is something you SEE with.

A Blind Spot Detector is an electronic device based on radar supplementing your visual field with a rearward scan and analysis of the behavior of vehicles behind you which is then presented in your forward visual field. The scope of presentation is typically three lanes: left, current, and right. The presentation is preferably located within your "road watch" field of view with no head or eye movement required. The purpose of the presentation is generally to CUE your attention towards one-side or both-sides mirrors.

Two separate devices, both useful for maintaining "road watch" situational awareness.

Thanks Mikey, for serving up this opportunity to pontificate.

This is a bit of an overkill, no ??

I mean, what's so difficult about turning your head ?? The Spyder isn't THAT big, lol.

Just drive defensively and be aware of your position amongst the other vehicles ....

(But I suppose if you've had a cervical fusion and have limited range of motion, these devices would be a life-saver).

 

[Isopedella]

This is a bit of an overkill, no ??

I mean, what's so difficult about turning your head ?? The Spyder isn't THAT big, lol.

Just drive defensively and be aware of your position amongst the other vehicles ....

Yeah nah - not overkill really. No way..... Not saying you shouldn't do 'a head check' look.

But you should consider..... just for a moment even..... do you have rear view mirrors in your car or rely on turning your head?

Whatsa the difference no matter what you ride or drive?

 

[Peacekeeper6]

Yeah nah - not overkill really. No way..... Not saying you shouldn't do 'a head check' look.

But you should consider..... just for a moment even..... do you have rear view mirrors in your car or rely on turning your head?

Whatsa the difference no matter what you ride or drive?

The difference is the SIZE of the vehicle. You can easily cover the blind spot on a trike A LOT easier than if you were driving a car.

 

[wmjweber45]

My blind spot detector sits on top of my shoulders. It works together with my forward visual detector to make sure I'm keeping a safe distance from upcoming obstacles. It has the unique ability to keep me safe and out of danger if I pay attention and follow its recommendations.

Some of us have very limited neck movement and cannot look over the shoulder so easily. I use a 2 inch round blind spot mirror stuck to the upper outside corner of each mirror. Not sure if I would trust a proximity detector.

 

[Northofthesix]

Some of us have very limited neck movement and cannot look over the shoulder so easily. I use a 2 inch round blind spot mirror stuck to the upper outside corner of each mirror. Not sure if I would trust a proximity detector.

I have done the same thing, but I added my BSM's to the bottom inside corner of each regular mirror and then angled them wide.... I find this gives me great ability to scan both near and far at a glance, although I am still able to turn my head for passing etc. I try to scan behind me every 10 seconds or so on the highway given how fast people fly up behind me!

 

[BertRemington]

You can easily cover the blind spot on a trike A LOT easier than if you were driving a car.

I have a 2020 Ford Transit Connect with a visibility range similar to most passenger vehicles. My 2014 RT-S with TricLED Wide-Vu BSMs has better side blind spot range but worse rear blind spot range than the TC.

Again, BSDs are for CUEing not for SEEing.

Later this month I will be installing the already-delivered Innovv ThirdEYE on the TC and, when I receive it, the newly-discovered OYI MT-04 on the RT-S.

Let me explain.

The TC has the usual short-range ultrasonic-based BLIS sensors on the rear bumper with indicators on the outside mirrors. The ThirdEYE provides an extended range (150+ feet) 77GHz radar sensor on the rear liftgate with indicators directly in front of me on the dashboard. Originally I hadn't planned on a supplemental BSD for the TC but the ThirdEYE was already delivered so I'm kinda making lemonade.

The MT-04 on the RT-S provides an extended range (150+ feet) 77GHZ radar sensor on the license plate bracket with indicators directly in front of me on the dashboard.

The ThirdEYE has an ambiguity when concurrent left and right lane LCA steadily illuminates both indicators as does RCW. In the TC a quick glance (0.25 seconds) at the central inside mirror disambiguates the RCW alert from the concurrent LCA alerts.

The MT-04 does not have this ambiguity. An RCW alert is flashing indicators while concurrent LCA alerts are steady indicators (RCW takes precedence). Seeing behind me requires shifting my body as well as my eyes to assess if there is a dangerous (less than 3 seconds time-to-collision) vehicle approaching in my lane. In heavy traffic situations this shifting is a significant time and attention commitment (about 0.5 seconds). The RCW alert cues me to make this commitment, especially since it provides a more accurate TTC than I could calculate in real-time.

For this reason I recommend the MT-04 over the ThirdEYE and a BSD on your Spyder for CUEing rather than no BSD even though I haven't installed either of them.

 

[Motorcycledave]

Blind spot mirror

This is by far the very best mirror on the world market

 

[Pirate]

I check my mirrors first then turn my head to confirm.

 

[broderp]

A lot to digest in this thread. I always (and I mean ALWAYS) do this sequence when changing lanes on my Motorcycle:

*Blinker on
*Mirror check
*Head check

I'm also getting older, can no longer turn my head as far as I use to, I wear full gear that can limit movement and have had a back surgery that limits my flexibility. I am at times apprehensive about missing a vehicle in my blind spot.

Nothing can replace taking responsibility for your own safety, but there is nothing wrong with having some help either. So many new cars have BSD these days, why shouldn't a motorcycle or Trike?

I was not aware of cheaper alternatives to the INNOVV ThirdEYE prior to buying mine. (my delivery is scheduled for this Wednesday :yes: ) I still may still pick up the cheaper one from the eBay listing, unless someone knows its junk.

I'll admit I was uneducated on what these are. I thought they were just BSD devices and that was my expectation. If some one is near me in my blind spot - it lights up. I was not thinking of LCA or RCW so my expectation for any device is much less than others. I just want a simple and reliable device.

Its a fine line at times to leverage technology vs. rely on it. :riding:


:cheers:

 

[Steve W.]

So many new cars have BSD these days, why shouldn't a motorcycle or Trike?

My van has BSD, but I only notice it when I turn my head to look into my mirror. :shocked:

When I do that, I might see the icon in the mirror lit up if someone is actually there. I certainly don't rely on the icon, I just happen to notice it on occasion.

Fortunately, it is silent. There have been discussions on the van forums where members are commenting that it should beep when it lights up, but most of the replies say that the constant beeping on the freeway would be even more annoying.

Fortunately, even though I am aging and getting a bit less-agile, I am still able to move my head enough to check my mirrors and even turn far enough to actually verify whether it's safe to change positions. Not sure I would want to monitor another flashing light in front of me, when the same amount of time that it takes to check the light could be spent in a head-turning visual check.

.

 

[broderp]

My van has BSD, but I only notice it when I turn my head to look into my mirror. :shocked:

When I do that, I might see the icon in the mirror lit up if someone is actually there. I certainly don't rely on the icon, I just happen to notice it on occasion.

Fortunately, it is silent. There have been discussions on the van forums where members are commenting that it should beep when it lights up, but most of the replies say that the constant beeping on the freeway would be even more annoying.

Fortunately, even though I am aging and getting a bit less-agile, I am still able to move my head enough to check my mirrors and even turn far enough to actually verify whether it's safe to change positions. Not sure I would want to monitor another flashing light in front of me, when the same amount of time that it takes to check the light could be spent in a head-turning visual check.

.

Great points. Seeing the monitor LED when looking at the mirror would be optimal IMO. When looking at the mirror, and not able to see the blind spot, it will trigger you to be more careful when moving on to visual scanning. To me it would just say "better double check".

I agree with the beeping, but would welcome a system that would beep and alert if a collision was possible. I don't own a car with this tech in it but my daughters CRV I believe does. Aside from turning on the mirror icon as cars passed, once it beeped while her turn signal was on warning her to not switch lanes. THAT would be nice integration for a bike and fairly easy to add if the device had the ability to trigger the beep based off a turn signal.

 

[2dogs]

A lot to digest in this thread. I always (and I mean ALWAYS) do this sequence when changing lanes on my Motorcycle:
*Blinker on
*Mirror check
*Head check
....

Great!! But I do it in a different order. Very simple and safe, Mirror check, Head check then Blinker on. Whichever way you want but all together is the safest way to stay healthy. Then sometimes I do it all again just to make doubly sure. You can never be too careful.

 

[BertRemington]

This BSD https://www.ebay.com/itm/225722972751 claims to provide the two-stage LCA you want. Steady LCA on approach with beeping when you engage your turn signal for that lane. However the documentation is conflicted about the RCW function. It's complicated but I believe this is the MT-05 which is derived from the automotive version which doesn't have RCW.

Regarding placement of the indicators, while the manufacturers highlight putting on the mirrors a UK ThirdEYE reviewer moved them into his normal field-of-view. Which is exactly what I intend to do.

Again I distinguish between Seeing (blind spot mirrors) and Cueing (blind spot detectors).

 

[pegasus1300]

Hi Bert, have you received your MT-04 yet and been able to install it? I am looking forward to your review of this BSD. And how did the installation go?