Threw lean code

[bluestratos]

I installed my power commander V with autotune a few weeks back and all was working fine. Last Wednesday it started fine and as I was cruising at 25 in town the engine light came on. When I checked there were two codes: front and rear cylinders too lean. Now I have Air fuel ratio Gauge on the bike and a second one for the Auto Tune which agree with each other so I can see that I am not running too lean. No matter what it will not go away. So first question, can I clear the code?

The average A/F ratio at most speeds is 13.2 or less which should be fine if not a bit rich. But the map that they have stored for the Can Am is strange with target values of 13.2 at 60% throttle or higher, nothing below until 7750 RPM at which point they are across the board except for zero % throttle which always 0 which I understand is normal.


Now, has anyone else installed the setup and what were you experiences. If yours is working can you share your map, I have free flowing exhaust and air filter.

 

[Chupaca]

Don't know..!!

for sure but I think BUDS is the only one who can erase stored codes. If you re-adjust your regulator or do the key walk it may clear from active. Then the engine light will go out. :thumbup:

 

[bluestratos]

Hmmm, the active codes went away but the trouble stays on even with the key out and in then house. I will call Dyna Tune on Monday to see apparently throwing a lean coded may require a long ride then accepting the trims

 

[NancysToy]

Are you sure you didn't end up running too rich with the fuel management system, and soot up or saturate the OEM sensors? After such an excursion, the OEM system often reads lean because the stock sensors are contaminated.

 

[DrewNJ]

Does the PCV modify/trick the stock o2 signal to the ecm?

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[bluestratos]

If the the O2 sensors are sooted up can I use a cleaner? From what I have read now this condition is not unusual for Spyders. I am waiting to hear back from the tech but they may be closed until after Christmas. I found two other posts on there where they had lean codes and apparently they fixed it by taking long rides then accepting the trims.

Yes the PCv changes the information the stock system sees to allow tuning outside of factor settings.

 

[DrewNJ]

I honestly don't know how a pretty consistent 13 AFR would goob up an o2 sensor. However, the beauty of having an AFR gauge is that at least you KNOW your not running lean.
It has to be something between the stock o2 readings, how that signal is modified, and how the ecu interprets that signal.
I can totally see how the o2 sensors getting goobed up could cause this. The PC5 doesn't change the mapping on the fly right? You have to accept the changes? So the adjustments are static adjustments?
So while the PC5 is keeping the adjustments the same, the stock ecu is trying to go richer and richer (it's sensing lean according to the o2). Makes the whole thing get worse and worse until the stock adjustments are maxed out.....check engine light...lean code, it's done.

Curious how this will change the PC5 autotune map though.....Let us know what your log files look like and how drastic the PC5 wants to change.

I REALLY dislike o2 sensors and tuning. It's 100 times worse on modded machines...:banghead:

Good Luck!

 

[DrewNJ]

You'll get mixed opinions on cleaning o2 sensors. Some say it's ok, others say no.

If the sensor is sooted up then it "may" be possible. Most that I've heard either soak the tip in gas for a bit to try to soften up the debris, or run the motor lean a bit to cook it off.

Others say doing any of this will damage the sensor. :sour:

 

[bluestratos]

I think the power commander is making real time changes but I may be wrong. As I understood it, you save the map to zero out the table again so it can continue fine tuning. Eventually the changes get so small there is not longer a need. I will know more when they get from Christmas but it sounds like its par for the course. I keep everyone posted...

The good news is I can always just go back to stock if necessary (may need new sensors but big deal). And I told the wife if I cannot get it to work I trading it in on a new one and she whatever as long as I pay cash and I get a reasonable trade for the old grey mare... lol. I just wish they had not played with the colors on the new ones, I like this silver and my trailer matches. lol.

 

[Omcge]

I installed my power commander V with autotune a few weeks back and all was working fine. Last Wednesday it started fine and as I was cruising at 25 in town the engine light came on. When I checked there were two codes: front and rear cylinders too lean. Now I have Air fuel ratio Gauge on the bike and a second one for the Auto Tune which agree with each other so I can see that I am not running too lean. No matter what it will not go away. So first question, can I clear the code?

The average A/F ratio at most speeds is 13.2 or less which should be fine if not a bit rich. But the map that they have stored for the Can Am is strange with target values of 13.2 at 60% throttle or higher, nothing below until 7750 RPM at which point they are across the board except for zero % throttle which always 0 which I understand is normal.


Now, has anyone else installed the setup and what were you experiences. If yours is working can you share your map, I have free flowing exhaust and air filter.

I had the same problem a couple weeks ago with lean code. It went away after about a 20 min ride.

What AFR meter are u using and can u see it in the sunlight. I have a digital from Glow Shift and can't see it in bright light.
I Have been adjusting mine manually and think that I have it pretty close but I am looking for a dyno shop to get it perfect. There a lot of shops for 2 wheelers but it needs to be also for Atv's UTV's etc

 

[NancysToy]

I had the same problem a couple weeks ago with lean code. It went away after about a 20 min ride.

What AFR meter are u using and can u see it in the sunlight. I have a digital from Glow Shift and can't see it in bright light.
I Have been adjusting mine manually and think that I have it pretty close but I am looking for a dyno shop to get it perfect. There a lot of shops for 2 wheelers but it needs to be also for Atv's UTV's etc

It needs to be more than that. The SM's can be run on a dyno if the rear wheel sensor(s) is removed so that Miss Nanny doesn't see a difference between front and rear wheel speeds. The SE's cannot, because the lack of a speed input interferes with the shifting logic and the system will go to limp mode or fail to shift out of first. If you don't have auto-tune, you wil have to just keep experimenting, if you have an SE.

 

[Omcge]

It needs to be more than that. The SM's can be run on a dyno if the rear wheel sensor(s) is removed so that Miss Nanny doesn't see a difference between front and rear wheel speeds. The SE's cannot, because the lack of a speed input interferes with the shifting logic and the system will go to limp mode or fail to shift out of first. If you don't have auto-tune, you wil have to just keep experimenting, if you have an SE.

There was a post Originally Posted by aka1004 that said that u get it up to 3rd or 4th gear and then disconnect the rear sensor. Sound possible???

Or would it be possible to send the signal from the rear sensor to the two front's while on the Dyno??

 

[Bob Denman]

Why not just hook all 3 sensors to the rear wheel? :dontknow:
The bike will be getting an indicaiton of velocity; the shifting won't be screwed up...
There won'ts be any front to rear differential either! :thumbup:

Or will this require more bracketry than the typical backyard mechanic can muster? :shocked:

 

[Omcge]

Why not just hook all 3 sensors to the rear wheel? :dontknow:
The bike will be getting an indicaiton of velocity; the shifting won't be screwed up...
There won'ts be any front to rear differential either! :thumbup:

Or will this require more bracketry than the typical backyard mechanic can muster? :shocked:

The bracketry to mount the front sensors on the rear would be too much even for a well seasoned machinist.:banghead:

But wouldn't taking the signal from the rear and sending to the 2 front signal wires accomplish the same thing?:dontknow:


Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Larry

 

[NancysToy]

The bracketry to mount the front sensors on the rear would be too much even for a well seasoned machinist.:banghead:

But wouldn't taking the signal from the rear and sending to the 2 front signal wires accomplish the same thing?:dontknow:


Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Larry

Not on a dyno...the front wheels don't move there.

 

[Bob Denman]

Could you simply cut the wires to the front sensors, and splice them into the wires going to the rear?
Or would THAT give nanny fits? :yikes:

 

[DrewNJ]

Adding extra sensors to the rear from what I am told is the way to go and not as difficult as you think. IIRC there is already a spot on the rear where one of the extra sensors mounts up with no mods. A small home brew bracket should be easy to fab up.
From there its just extending the wires.
All of this could be done pretty easily with two additional sensors and extra wire. Leave the stock harness alone

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[NancysToy]

Extending the wires may or may not be possible, depending on the sensor signal type and strength. Some circuits are very sensitive to changes in the wiring resistance.

 

[bluestratos]

I ran some cleaner through and took it for a 50 mile ride but so far no change. I cannot talk to the techs until they get back next week but I can see the numbers are safe, 12.8 to 13.2 average. The auto tune is working and I accepted the trims so I will continue to ride and watch. I am getting some popping on shifts but I believe it is from the muffler so just a bit rich. If any one has a map that is working on their bike I would really appreciated if I can get a copy to try with my setup. At the PCV there are only two maps available, stock and two brothers with green filter.

Thanks to all and a very Merry Christmas to you!

 

[bluestratos]

New Information

Well I might be getting somewhere now. The PCV comes with an O2 modifier, its sole purpose is to add fuel to the open loop portion of the map. It is a stand alone unit that plugs inline with O2 sensors so the PCV does not directly communicate with it. As it turns out I can actually fine tune this in the PCV software if I plug my usb into the modifier where I can then add or subtract. It is most likely that the modifier is set over lean and the ECM cannot deal with it as it should.

From what I understand, the O2 modifier tells the O2 sensors that they are seeing a lean condition. The ECM then adds fuel to get back into compliance, there by tricking the bike into adding fuel in the open loop portion. It may just be that the ECM cannot add enough fuel to make it happy so it sends a lean code. Since my A/F gauge is telling me I may be really a bit rich, is supports the theory as does the fact that it is still backfiring in the exhaust when I back off the throttle.

I also discovered that I did not save the map correctly, I accepted the trims but I did not send the map which then alters the base map. I doubt that would have any effect on the lean code since it only affects the areas outside of the open loop but it needs to be done non the less.

I will post again when I find out if this fixes the problem or not.

Happy New Year all