This officer needs some learnin'!

[PrairieSpyder]

Yes there are high/low beams. The bulb does not have separate filaments for the settings. The Spyder has a headlight "shutter" which drops down to obscure the "full" light from high beam position to "partial" light for low beam position. The "thunk" you hear when changing from high to low is the shutter kicking in.

Hi Patti!
You actually had just one beam (High), and a shutter system that would cut off the top of the beam, so that it could also be used as "Low" :thumbup:

Thanks to both of you for that. I didn't understand the mechanics of the modulator and took Pete's comment literally. I learn something at least every other day!! hyea:

 

[Bob Denman]

I learn something at least every other day!! hyea:

So do I!
But then :shocked:: I forget four other things! :banghead:

 

[Tazzel]

I only had one experience with police while riding. Me and my friend were on our 49cc scooters cutting through a neighborhood. We are both over fifty and both under 5foot 4 inches. Suddenly lights, sirens, the whole enchilada. This huge police guy gets out of squad car. Must have been 6 foot 5 inches tall, hand on gun. Pointed to my buddy and said "you did not fully stop at the stop sign and SHE (yelling) pointing at me) barely qualified for a full stop. Give me your license and registration" My buddy gets out his wallet and hands over his paperwork and said to the officer " I have not had a traffic ticket in over 30 years because I always follow the rules and I did come to a full stop". Next thing the cop says "off the "tricycle", do you have any weapons? I'm going to pat you down for weapons" Mean while he called for backup, lol 3 other police cars showed up and we were detained for more then an hour while they tried getting us on something and couldn't. The whole thing was pretty funny, great story to tell the grand kids that I use to ride with a dangerous crew, lol.

This is only one of the reasons I really don't trust cops and figured out a long time ago, they are not your friend. They can and will jack you up (financially or physically) if given the opportunity. I know I know many will defend the Police but different experience gives different perceptions. Unless something happens to you, your family or friend then its hard to know where I am coming from and I hope you never experience it, its not fun.

 

[classicvw]

:crackpipe:

 

[ARtraveler]

I only had one experience with police while riding. Me and my friend were on our 49cc scooters cutting through a neighborhood. We are both over fifty and both under 5foot 4 inches. Suddenly lights, sirens, the whole enchilada. This huge police guy gets out of squad car. Must have been 6 foot 5 inches tall, hand on gun. Pointed to my buddy and said "you did not fully stop at the stop sign and SHE (yelling) pointing at me) barely qualified for a full stop. Give me your license and registration" My buddy gets out his wallet and hands over his paperwork and said to the officer " I have not had a traffic ticket in over 30 years because I always follow the rules and I did come to a full stop". Next thing the cop says "off the "tricycle", do you have any weapons? I'm going to pat you down for weapons" Mean while he called for backup, lol 3 other police cars showed up and we were detained for more then an hour while they tried getting us on something and couldn't. The whole thing was pretty funny, great story to tell the grand kids that I use to ride with a dangerous crew, lol.

This is only one of the reasons I really don't trust cops and figured out a long time ago, they are not your friend. They can and will jack you up (financially or physically) if given the opportunity. I know I know many will defend the Police but different experience gives different perceptions. Unless something happens to you, your family or friend then its hard to know where I am coming from and I hope you never experience it, its not fun.

Ouch. Calling for back up seems a bit overkill in this situation. Say as little as you have to, and lots of Yes Sir's seem to be in order. :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Wow...

 

[KX5062]

The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Code rules. States may not pass laws related to aspects of vehicle safety that are covered by the FMVSS other than to quote the Federal reg. There actually is no conflict of laws here. The state law he cited specifically prohibits flashing lights, for good reason - to make it illegal to create the appearance of being an official emergency services or law enforcement vehicle. The requirements for a modulator are specifically written to avoid a modulated headlight from copying an emergency light. When it comes to vehicle safety, especially over the road trucks, a competent police officer had better have a pretty good working knowledge of the Federal Regs because that is what he needs to be enforcing.

My intention, if I follow through, with filing a citizen's complaint is to make the entire Department more aware of this issue. I'm certain no police agency likes to have its officers enforcing laws inconsistently. Yes, this is a minor aspect of the entire motor vehicle law enforcement business, but there are many hundreds of us using modulators. We need to be properly recognized.

:agree:



Idaho has a somewhat streamlined system for handling traffic infractions. Fines are fixed by the legislature and are not subject to change, even by a judge. You either plead guilty and pay the fine when you send the ticket in to the court, or you mark the not guilty box. In that case the court sets a date. If you show up the judge makes a determination. If you send additional info in with the ticket the PA, Prosecuting Attorney or County Prosecutor, will then handle the ticket. He can choose to take it to the court or drop the charges. In Nez Perce County the Prosecutor's office has an assistant prosecutor who handles traffic infractions.

This whole thread got me curious about the legalities of headlight modulators. I know Kisan Electronics say they're 100% legal under federal regulations. In fact they cite the specific section of the federal regulations as proof of their compliance. https://kisantech.com/mag/regulations Specifically, "49 CFR Part 571.108 S7.9.4". On their website, they further state, "Title 49 USC 30103(b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108. No State or Local ordinance shall usurp the authority and enforcement of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards".

There is a big however in all this. If you actually read the first section cited, it has nothing to do with any of it. It is a section of the federal regulations that specify the mounting height of license plate lamps.

The second section they reference doesn't say that at all. It seems to say what they say, but again with a however. It states, "When a motor vehicle safety standard is in effect under this chapter, a State or a political subdivision of a State may prescribe or continue in effect a standard applicable to the same aspect of performance of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment only if the standard is identical to the standard prescribed under this chapter. However, the United States Government, a State, or a political subdivision of a State may prescribe a standard for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment obtained for its own use that imposes a higher performance requirement than that required by the otherwise applicable standard under this chapter."

However, section b2 which roughly says states may enforce the regulations, which is legal jargon means they don't have to enforce them.

So, this led me (yes, I have too much free time today) to actually start reading the federal regulations regarding lights and lighting equipment. The correct and applicable section starts at 49 CFR 571.108 Section 10.17.5.1 ending at Section 10.17.5.2.2.

The long and the short of it is they are legal, but they have very strict regulations about how they're made and how they're implemented. Whether or not Kisan or any other manufacturer meet those standards I have no idea, but you'd think they would actually link to the correct federal regulations. :banghead:

And, again, we go back to whether or not a states wishes to enforce these regulation, which we now know they are not obligated to do.

Clear as mud. :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The long and the short of it is they are legal, but they have very strict regulations about how they're made and how they're implemented. Whether or not Kisan or any other manufacturer meet those standards I have no idea, but you'd think they would actually link to the correct federal regulations. :banghead:

The reg # they cite is what it used to be. As you discovered the CFR has changed. It took me awhile to find the correct section also, which BTW, is what is in the PDFs I attached in the OP. :thumbup:

I guess after going through all this I should contact Kisan and let them know they need to update their information!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Looks to be resolved!

Well, the issue looks like it is about to be fully resolved! :yes: Here is what the officer wrote me today in an email.

I called the court and it is too late to void the citation. I spoke to one of the Deputy Prosecutors and recommended dropping the citation. He took a note of it and stated he would drop the citation once you pled not guilty. He stated he is unable to access the citation until you enter a plea.

One thing I did not see was a definition of a motorcycle which included three wheeled vehicles such as yours.

The written copy of the citation, my explanation of why I deny the violation, and printed copies of the docs in my OP are in the mail to the court.

I responded to the officer with a copy of the Idaho Code section that defines motorcycle, which includes the Spyder. Just in case he wasn't already aware I also included the code definition of autocycle, which includes the Slingshot, and listed the code sections that discuss the differences in licensing, helmets, etc., between motorcycles and autocycles.

I happened to see the local police chief today and told him about the situation. He couldn't believe what happened. I asked his thought about submitting a Citizen Complaint to the HQ of Idaho State Police. He said do it. However, as KX5062 says above, and is stated on the ISP web site, a Citizen Complaint is intended to be used to report improper handling of a situation by an officer. Disagreements about the validity of a citation are to be addressed to the court. Because of that, and because the officer handled this in a timely fashion after I got the CFR copies to him, I've decided not to file one. But I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to send a letter to the ISP Director so he can make sure all ISP officers are aware of headlight modulators and the role they play in motorcycle safety.

Naturally, I'm a rather happy camper tonight! :yes:

 

[BajaRon]

I had high and low beams on my 14 RT.

As mentioned. You do not actually have a High Beam and a Low Beam. Instead you have 1 constant high beam bulb with a shutter that drops down and blocks the upper part of the beam. That is why the low beam has such a defined flat edge at the top of the beam.

At first I wondered why everyone was getting over when I followed them in the fast lane. Then I realized that the top edge of the shuttered low beam sat just below the mirror on the average car. So the slightest bump 'Flashed' the car in front of me.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Jcthorne, as I mentioned above the debate about modulators has gone on since they were introduced. I found it rather striking this morning how the local police chief reacted when I told him about this situation. He is totally on the opposite end of thinking from you. He was very adamant about how headlight modulators really enhance the safety of m/c riders.

There probably will never be agreement between the proponents and opponents of modulators. I'm sure there are law enforcement folks who agree with you, but this one certainly does not!

 

[blitzkreig]

At first I wondered why everyone was getting over when I followed them in the fast lane. Then I realized that the top edge of the shuttered low beam sat just below the mirror on the average car. So the slightest bump 'Flashed' the car in front of me.

so how does one adjust for that ... ? Mine is about the same as yours and it appears to some like I am flashing my headlight ...

 

[jcthorne]

so how does one adjust for that ... ? Mine is about the same as yours and it appears to some like I am flashing my headlight ...

High beam setting during the daytime.

 

[jcthorne]

Jcthorne, as I mentioned above the debate about modulators has gone on since they were introduced. I found it rather striking this morning how the local police chief reacted when I told him about this situation. He is totally on the opposite end of thinking from you. He was very adamant about how headlight modulators really enhance the safety of m/c riders.

There probably will never be agreement between the proponents and opponents of modulators. I'm sure there are law enforcement folks who agree with you, but this one certainly does not!

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Our riding club does require modulators to be turned off when riding in the group.

 

[UtahPete]

Well, the issue looks like it is about to be fully resolved! ... I've decided not to file one. But I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to send a letter to the ISP Director so he can make sure all ISP officers are aware of headlight modulators and the role they play in motorcycle safety.

Congratulations on a successful outcome.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The latest

Here's the latest in this saga. I got my Notice of Hearing last week from the court. I talked to the Deputy Prosecutor this morning and he had a Post-It note on his desk about this. He asked me to tell him about modulators. After I explained what they do he said, "That's why my motorcycle headlight does that! I thought there was something wrong with it!" He will dismiss the ticket when the hearing date comes up. I'll get an official notice a few weeks after that.

He strongly recommended I contact my legislator and have the modulator provision put back into the Idaho Code so there is no question the next time someone gets stopped. I'm soliciting the help of Idaho STAR, the motorcycle safety organization, and the Idaho District of GWRRA to help.

I sent an email to the Director of the Idaho State Police to make him aware of this particular case and asked him to make sure all officers around the state know about modulators. I just had a phone conversation with his assistant who said he got my email and would handle it. The final outcome? Who knows? But at least they know there is at least a little bit of lack of information within the ISP force.

So as they say, all's well that ends well!

 

[UtahPete]

Here's the latest in this saga. I got my Notice of Hearing last week from the court. I talked to the Deputy Prosecutor this morning and he had a Post-It note on his desk about this. He asked me to tell him about modulators. After I explained what they do he said, "That's why my motorcycle headlight does that! I thought there was something wrong with it!" He will dismiss the ticket when the hearing date comes up. I'll get an official notice a few weeks after that.

He strongly recommended I contact my legislator and have the modulator provision put back into the Idaho Code so there is no question the next time someone gets stopped. I'm soliciting the help of Idaho STAR, the motorcycle safety organization, and the Idaho District of GWRRA to help.

I sent an email to the Director of the Idaho State Police to make him aware of this particular case and asked him to make sure all officers around the state know about modulators. I just had a phone conversation with his assistant who said he got my email and would handle it. The final outcome? Who knows? But at least they know there is at least a little bit of lack of information within the ISP force.

It's nice to know the system works. The key I think was your determination to work within the system to not only resolve your own case but to fix what was broken if you could.

 

[Docster]

Only the PA can toss the ticket. When you call/send him the info, if he isn't a moron they will drop it. If not of course, you have a false arrest case.

I'm surprised that a state trouper would make that mistake, but then again another of your troupers (with a Napoleonic complex) stopped me for "passing on the right" on I84. After, bringing to his attention that I had been undercover for WA, and "I'm sure that you are correct, in ID, but not in WA", he decided to give me a firm warning and let me go.

He has to be arrested or detained to claim false arrest

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_arrest

 

[OKey]

How is it even possible to modulate the headlights on a 2014RT? There is no hi / low beam on those.

I have a High and Low beam on my 2010 RTS.

 

[jcthorne]

Here's the latest in this saga. I got my Notice of Hearing last week from the court. I talked to the Deputy Prosecutor this morning and he had a Post-It note on his desk about this. He asked me to tell him about modulators. After I explained what they do he said, "That's why my motorcycle headlight does that! I thought there was something wrong with it!" He will dismiss the ticket when the hearing date comes up. I'll get an official notice a few weeks after that.

He strongly recommended I contact my legislator and have the modulator provision put back into the Idaho Code so there is no question the next time someone gets stopped. I'm soliciting the help of Idaho STAR, the motorcycle safety organization, and the Idaho District of GWRRA to help.

I sent an email to the Director of the Idaho State Police to make him aware of this particular case and asked him to make sure all officers around the state know about modulators. I just had a phone conversation with his assistant who said he got my email and would handle it. The final outcome? Who knows? But at least they know there is at least a little bit of lack of information within the ISP force.

So as they say, all's well that ends well!

It may surprise you but I am glad to hear the law enforcement aspect of this got resolved in your favor. The law is the law, no mater if I agree with it or not.