oldguyinTX
New member
Maybe this is why BRP has no sprockets.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/austrian-engines-south-korean-malaysian-134000362.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/austrian-engines-south-korean-malaysian-134000362.html
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This is disturbing
- Thread starter oldguyinTX
- Start date
I don't think so. Seems to be direct drive aircraft engine.
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ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
Don't go political. Very easy to do here. :bowdown:
I agree with "it's all about the money."
I agree with "it's all about the money."
:agree: The photo shows that it's likely a direct drive and whatever the front pully is driving, that belt appears to be a simple "V" belt. But who really knows who makes our front sprockets?
PMK
Active member
As far as it being all about the money, my opinion differs. To the folks selling it may be about the money, but to the bad guys needing these items, cost is no object.
In a perfectly executed following of ITAR rules, all the way to the top folks at Rotax and BRP, can and should be charged for these crimes. Not saying those folks truly deserve it, but it is how the rules have been written and their companies agreed to comply with.
So many audits, traceability, and paper trails to charge them all, but should be done.
In a perfectly executed following of ITAR rules, all the way to the top folks at Rotax and BRP, can and should be charged for these crimes. Not saying those folks truly deserve it, but it is how the rules have been written and their companies agreed to comply with.
So many audits, traceability, and paper trails to charge them all, but should be done.
PMK
Active member
Honestly, when I got training in regards to ITAR, it was while employed at a Berkshire Hathaway company that dealt with US military products. Once you have a grasp of the intentions AND the list of items, whether in compliance or not is pretty obvious. Berkshire Hathaway wanted no blemish on them, and no doubt no huge fines.
While ITAR lacks the common sense to understand that bad dudes in foreign militaries will get what they need by circumventing the direct path. Those countries will do whatever it takes to obtain what they desire.
Hopefully for BRP and Rotax, they have a very good paper trail, and audit system to fully disclose the path these engines travelled.
When I dealt with ITAR items, I recall learning that simple video gaming consoles, like XBox contained processor electronics inside them that made them desirable to foreign countries. They could not directly purchase the processor chips, but someone here in the US could buy many video game consoles, disassemble them and remove the chips. Then send them by mail to another country, then another until ultimately they would arrive in the hands of the bad guys. Downside in all this, on paper it was legal and effectively skirted the intentions of ITAR, and allowed the bad guys to easily obtain what they needed.
oldguyinTX
New member
Well, I hope that this thread is not political, and I certainly did not mean it as such. Just information for anyone who wants it, form ones own opinion.
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Your originating post, the one that started the thread, & your post above are both fine oldguy, as are the rest of the individual posts in the thread - so far! :thumbup:
AR was just giving everyone a gentle reminder not to stray over the 'Political posts are NOT allowed on the site' boundary. :lecturef_smilie:
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Lew, I guess we'll never know who knew what about the destination of those engines. But in any case I think we can be confident it has no bearing on the shortage of replacent parts for our Spyder engines since they have a different drive train, right?
bikerbillone
Well-known member
Bottom line, BRP should test the parts used to build these machines. I know, it's about the money, filling the orders, and other factors, but shouldn't quality control be in there somewhere? Maybe I'm just whistling in the wind thinking that any big company cares about QC these days, I dunno.
PMK
Active member
My opinion and others will differ, the truth behind these failures of front sprockets is not poor quality of the sprocket, nor the shaft, rather it is a lubrication and maintenance interval issue. Simply, the splines require proper and adequate lubricant, correctly applied, and then reapplied after spline cleaning, accomplished at realistic specified intervals. Similar to getting an oil change. Contending with the splines, the task is not difficult, requires minimal time and material costs for cleaning solvent and lubricant are small. The true fault is that someone expected this to be a non wear item, and consumers now insist upon that. I will be very surprised if the permanent fix corrects the issue. As it stands, each one inspected, now has a published requirement for reinspections. If Can Am revises the bulletin to require removal of the pulley for inspections, once assembled wet, the issue will subside. Again, my opinion based on decades of working with high performance spline drives.
bikerbillone
Well-known member
Good comment, so how is this preventive maintenance done, I had no idea. Thanks for your comment.
BajaRon
Well-known member
It is naïve to think that Iran can't get pretty much whatever they can afford. And with the large infusion of cash they received when the worldwide bank holds were released to them. They now have a lot of cash. Nor can you necessarily blame Rotax or the semi-conductor manufacturer's in South Korea and elsewhere.
Laws are made for the honest. Find an ordinance anywhere in the world that isn't being violated on a regular basis. Why? Because many times they are getting away with it.
All Iran needs to do is set up proxy buyers in Germany, India, whatever. They set up a business front and purchase from a legitimate Rotax, Computer Chip or other vendor. They mislabel the product so it gets past inspectors (or pay them off). Then find a round-about way to get the goods to Iran so that it's hard to know how they were acquired. I'm sure it's not easy, considering all the restrictions. But it is doable. It's as simple as that.
I'm not saying that there aren't some rats in the cargo bay along the way. But I doubt that Rotax had any idea that, #1, Iran had acquired their engines. And certainly had no idea what they were weaponizing them.
Iran wasn't supposed to get uranium centrifuges capable of producing weapons grade fuel either. But they have them. They say they aren't making weapon grade fuel. Just fuel for power plants. But the quality of fuel needed for that is much lower than for weapons. And the machines and processes needed are much less demanding and way cheaper. No one really believes that Iran isn't making weapons with their nuclear fuel program. Though there are some who believe they don't intend to use it.
Laws are made for the honest. Find an ordinance anywhere in the world that isn't being violated on a regular basis. Why? Because many times they are getting away with it.
All Iran needs to do is set up proxy buyers in Germany, India, whatever. They set up a business front and purchase from a legitimate Rotax, Computer Chip or other vendor. They mislabel the product so it gets past inspectors (or pay them off). Then find a round-about way to get the goods to Iran so that it's hard to know how they were acquired. I'm sure it's not easy, considering all the restrictions. But it is doable. It's as simple as that.
I'm not saying that there aren't some rats in the cargo bay along the way. But I doubt that Rotax had any idea that, #1, Iran had acquired their engines. And certainly had no idea what they were weaponizing them.
Iran wasn't supposed to get uranium centrifuges capable of producing weapons grade fuel either. But they have them. They say they aren't making weapon grade fuel. Just fuel for power plants. But the quality of fuel needed for that is much lower than for weapons. And the machines and processes needed are much less demanding and way cheaper. No one really believes that Iran isn't making weapons with their nuclear fuel program. Though there are some who believe they don't intend to use it.
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If manufacturers tested every part in every machine they would be unaffordable.
Fatcycledaddy
Active member
I couldn't agree more!
I remember when some playstation parts were used in wepons.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/20-years-later-how-concerns-about-weaponized-consoles-almost-sunk-the-ps2
An honest manufacture could sell its products to an honest vender, the item can me hijacked during shipping. An honest vender may sell them off a few at a time to severl small venders who are purchesing them that he thinks are honest, and they could all be set up by a goverment like Iran just for the purpose of requiring them.
Bad guys allways get the wepons they want while the good people follow the laws to the best of their ability. Then each time the bad guys fugure out a way around it, the laws on the good guys get strickter. They don't affect the bad guy because he doesn't follow them anyway.
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