THE SPYDER LEFT US STRANDED AGAIN

[Questions]

Can you get the dealer to write down the codes for you? There are lots of people here who can tell you what they mean.
Have you tried swapping relays, if they have the same ID numbers, they are interchangable, and depending on the circuit, may not use the same contacts.
If your engine has been running a little hotter than normal, or the codes show a lean condition, it could be cracked vacuum lines.

john

Hopefully I'll get to speak with the dealer tomorrow--I'll see if he can give me the codes. I hope by tomorrow BRP will come up with a plan of action. If I wasnt so old I think my wife would send me to BRP Tech school so I can fix it Myself! :sour:

 

[ChasCS]

Download it today...

Hopefully I'll get to speak with the dealer tomorrow--I'll see if he can give me the codes. I hope by tomorrow BRP will come up with a plan of action. If I wasnt so old I think my wife would send me to BRP Tech school so I can fix it Myself! :sour:

Never too old...
Do you have the Spyder codes app, member Roger Wenzel created for us?
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/myspyder/id797958917?ls=1&mt=8

Chas

 

[PMK]

First easy step, in my opinion and this is not to override the dealer. Unplug the grips, probably not the problem, but it removes one item.

My guess is fuel pump. The machine is running fine and dies. The switch is basically static mode once running. The pump is dynamic, always moving.

ECM, sure, anything is possible.

As mentioned, ensure the relays are secure for that circuit. Then it may be some parts changing to sort it out.

I doubt they will do this, but if you do not need to "know" the cause, see if they will replace the switch and pump, leave the grips undone for a bit and go test.

Even the best troubleshooters, need to change a part on a whim sometimes. The trick is an educated guess and often what costs the least.

All the best with it.

PK

 

[KatLen0405]

Sounds like this to me....

Sounds like a terrible Road Gremlin - you need a Gremlin Bell ASAP! :clap:

If that doesn't work - I just call AAA Road Service.

So sorry for your troubles. There are Spyders out there that are performing worry-free. Don't give up on yours yet! :2thumbs:

 

[progt]

mine died too!!

For the third time since I purchased my new 2012 RT SM5 spsets and r in 3-22-14, it has left us stranded and had to be towed. It starts up normal, runs for about 2 minutes , dies and will not restart. The first time it did this in my garage at an idle, The second time a few weeks later it stalled in Baraboo, wi, and this past Sunday it stalled in Waupon , Wi. All three times it did the same thing. The first time there was no clear diagnosis, the second time the dealer said it was the ignitio relay and not to worry because it probably wouldnt go out again! This time they are scratching their heads trying to figure it out. I filed a complaint with BRP and asked them to call the dealer for tech support. Its a terrible feeling when you cant trust your ride. Anybody have this happen to them?

Mine only had 330 miles on it and it just shut off,no limp mode or nothing 2013 sts just sitting on the side of the road think in ???are you kiddin me. LoL. Turns out it was the fuel pump went bad. 330 miles. But now she's got 600 miles and she's running fine

 

[PMK]

Plugged fuel filter.

Maybe, but you expect that to show itself more at higher revs than at idle. But anything is possible.

PK

 

[Questions]

Maybe, but you expect that to show itself more at higher revs than at idle. But anything is possible.

PK

There was no news yesterday. Im trying to give a little space to the BRP tech who is trying to fill in for the service Mgr. this week and do his job. I hope that he has enough time to speak to BRP tech support and at least test out the ECM etc. Like I stated before since we purchased this spyder (3-22-14)it has been down now 5 weeks (intermittently) for repairs. We love our spyder but I think this is getting old real fast. Im calling dealer today to see if BRP has a fix. Thanks to all of you for your input which I have passed along to the BRP dealer tech. I will keep you posted.

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the update, and I'll continue to keep my fingers crossed for some good news for you! :thumbup:

 

[frankc]

fuel pick up

Plugged fuel filter.

blocked fuel pick up after it seats a while gas gets back to the pump then when it run, uses up what fuel it has then its out again. had a similar thing happen with a brand new vehicle not a spyder but I guess someone at the factory thought it would be funny so they stuffed a tee-shirt in the fuel tank. I thin it was towed maybe 5 time finaly someone decided to put it on a dyno and let it run. they then found the shirt in the fuel tank

 

[grumpybob]

I had, or have, a similar problem. With starting my 2014 RT Limited & keeping the battery charged. The engine would/will not turnover. Figured out that the emergency shut-off switch was not fully in the on position, although nobody messed with it, it may be vibrating enough so as to not be fully on. After I turn/turned it off then back on it would turn over and start right up.

In reference to the battery - I was having problems keeping the battery charged enough to start the same 2012 RT limited. Had the dealer replace the battery. The new battery was also discharging enough so as it would not turn the bike over & the starter would not give that clicking sound. went thru this for a week, checking the voltage every morning. started putting the emergency switch in the off/kill position every time I turned the spyder off. Checked the voltage every morning for about 5 days then started her up. She started up every day. My conclusion is that I have a drain on one of the circuits that in on the emergency shut-off switch. I have not taken it in to the dealer as of yet, cause I have not gotten stranded since. Oh yes, I carry a battery & jumper cables in the Frunk to ease my mind for the rest of the season. Rode about 1.5 hr. ride each way on Wed. & she started fine at all the stops.



I also have a confidence issue with the SpYder. Waiting to get an up close look at the new slingshot and it may be all over for the SpYder.

 

[Questions]

I had, or have, a similar problem. With starting my 2014 RT Limited & keeping the battery charged. The engine would/will not turnover. Figured out that the emergency shut-off switch was not fully in the on position, although nobody messed with it, it may be vibrating enough so as to not be fully on. After I turn/turned it off then back on it would turn over and start right up.

In reference to the battery - I was having problems keeping the battery charged enough to start the same 2012 RT limited. Had the dealer replace the battery. The new battery was also discharging enough so as it would not turn the bike over & the starter would not give that clicking sound. went thru this for a week, checking the voltage every morning. started putting the emergency switch in the off/kill position every time I turned the spyder off. Checked the voltage every morning for about 5 days then started her up. She started up every day. My conclusion is that I have a drain on one of the circuits that in on the emergency shut-off switch. I have not taken it in to the dealer as of yet, cause I have not gotten stranded since. Oh yes, I carry a battery & jumper cables in the Frunk to ease my mind for the rest of the season. Rode about 1.5 hr. ride each way on Wed. & she started fine at all the stops.



I also have a confidence issue with the SpYder. Waiting to get an up close look at the new slingshot and it may be all over for the SpYder.

I spoke with the BRP Tech at the dealership and he said that the BRP tech line was not much help to him today. He said that he is going to take a hard look at it tomorrow to find the problem. If he cant find a definitive cause we will have a real problem. THe GM at the dealership will have to get involved . If it happens again the Wisconsin Lemon law will prevail and we will get rid of the bike. I would hate to do that--fun machine when it runs.

 

[PMK]

I spoke with the BRP Tech at the dealership and he said that the BRP tech line was not much help to him today. He said that he is going to take a hard look at it tomorrow to find the problem. If he cant find a definitive cause we will have a real problem. THe GM at the dealership will have to get involved . If it happens again the Wisconsin Lemon law will prevail and we will get rid of the bike. I would hate to do that--fun machine when it runs.

Tough call on that one...Intermittent problems are some of the worst to sort out. The big question is will BRP cover the time for labor to troubleshoot and ALL parts tossed at the machine to troubleshoot?

If BRP is willing to pay, and verified so you don't get stuck with a bill. Ask the guy to start changing parts, fuel pump, maybe throttle body, ECM, and so on. Use the codes as a guide. If the replaced parts do not resolve it, then let them have it back.

Has the tech heard it quit running? That alone may help in diagnosing the trouble.

Regardless though, myself, I would replace the items that make sense to replace, and have minimal labor involved. Keep a well documented list of items replaced or inspected and verified good.

The flip side is, all the time it has already been in the shop and you want to ride. Whatever route you choose, make sure it does not keep the process bogged down.

It would be very cool if it died in the shop, and did not refire for the tech.

PK

 

[PMK]

The post about the right grip kill switch has me intrigued...I would disconnect that also and see if it changes. Or replace it.

The wording about id just dies, keeps makes me consider items that would kill the engine clean, no pops, no erratic then dies, just fine then dead.

The comments about the fuses and relays, I know they were in there before, I would also consider replacing, not checking the fuses on that systems or those systems. Again, cheap and easy.

PK

 

[jtoro1]

Had my kill SW go bad but the bike would not turn off

 

[PMK]

The kill switch is, like all user controls, on the can bus.
There isn't a convenient way to disconnect it.

The inconvenience is the connector from the right switch housing looks to have other systems wired into it.

As for the witch itself, being analog, I doubt the computer sees anything more than an open or closed circuit.

Hypothetically, with the switch assembly in the $400 range, and if "run" is an open position, depinning one wire would verify the the switch.

Honestly, I do not know the true fault, just considering items I would look at myself in sorting out the fault.

If the switch is wired into the CanBus with more than an open or closed selection, then it is way overcomplicated...Good info to know though.

PK

 

[Questions]

The inconvenience is the connector from the right switch housing looks to have other systems wired into it.

As for the witch itself, being analog, I doubt the computer sees anything more than an open or closed circuit.

Hypothetically, with the switch assembly in the $400 range, and if "run" is an open position, depinning one wire would verify the the switch.

Honestly, I do not know the true fault, just considering items I would look at myself in sorting out the fault.

If the switch is wired into the CanBus with more than an open or closed selection, then it is way overcomplicated...Good info to know though.

PK

I stopped at the dealers today and spoke with the Service Mgr.. The spyder tech had worked on it all morning and could only find that there were 4 faults (he didnt know which ones and tech was at lunch) and these faults blew the ignition switch fuse. He had to use BUDS to reset system to reinstall fuse because it kept blowing. After that everything checks out fine. The service mgr said now the General Mgr is going to call BRP and sent this bike up to some BRP Tech location in Wausaw,Wi. I told him I didnt want the bike back until they can prove to me that they found the problem. This becomes a safety issue when you stall in the street like we did. I also told him that I expect some type of compensation because now the bike has been down 5 weeks and counting since I purchased it 0n 3-22-14. This has been a nightmare for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The kill switch is, like all user controls, on the can bus.
There isn't a convenient way to disconnect it.

I don't think so RR. Looking at the wiring diagram for my bike the kill switch (stop switch on the diagram) is connected in line with a single lead going from the DESS module to ground.

That makes me wonder if bikeman has a malfunctioning DESS module.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The inconvenience is the connector from the right switch housing looks to have other systems wired into it.

I haven't followed all the circuits from the right multi switch, but the cruise control switch wires go to the left headlight switch which, as I read it, has a CAN Bus processor in it. As I note above the kill switch connects the DESS to ground.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I stopped at the dealers today and spoke with the Service Mgr.. The spyder tech had worked on it all morning and could only find that there were 4 faults (he didnt know which ones and tech was at lunch) and these faults blew the ignition switch fuse. He had to use BUDS to reset system to reinstall fuse because it kept blowing. After that everything checks out fine. The service mgr said now the General Mgr is going to call BRP and sent this bike up to some BRP Tech location in Wausaw,Wi. I told him I didnt want the bike back until they can prove to me that they found the problem. This becomes a safety issue when you stall in the street like we did. I also told him that I expect some type of compensation because now the bike has been down 5 weeks and counting since I purchased it 0n 3-22-14. This has been a nightmare for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have them check out the DESS module and wiring, and the ECM. It's one of the items fed through the 10 amp fuse to the ignition, and since the kill switch is connected to it that makes me think a fault in it or its wiring might send a shutdown signal to the ECM. Also, the ECM is fed by that same fuse, as well as the SAS, YRS, VCM, PRS, and MSR. I think that between the DESS and ECM an internal fault caused the shutdown and high current draw, which is why the tech had to reset the system with BUDS.

This is based on looking at the 2013 RT wiring diagram, but I think it's pretty much the same for 2012.

 

[PMK]

I stopped at the dealers today and spoke with the Service Mgr.. The spyder tech had worked on it all morning and could only find that there were 4 faults (he didnt know which ones and tech was at lunch) and these faults blew the ignition switch fuse. He had to use BUDS to reset system to reinstall fuse because it kept blowing. After that everything checks out fine. The service mgr said now the General Mgr is going to call BRP and sent this bike up to some BRP Tech location in Wausaw,Wi. I told him I didnt want the bike back until they can prove to me that they found the problem. This becomes a safety issue when you stall in the street like we did. I also told him that I expect some type of compensation because now the bike has been down 5 weeks and counting since I purchased it 0n 3-22-14. This has been a nightmare for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In my opinion, the tech made a big mistake. Just as others here are reading a wiring diagram, the tech should have also. He should not have reset the system with Buds if possible since the problem was "live". Seeing the diagram, he would have disconnected all items on that circuit. Then one by one he would have reconnected each item until it blew the fuse.

If the system has been reset, and the fault temporarily cleared, it will be tough to inspect the items mentioned and find a fault. At that point it becomes a parts changing game.

On the flip side, I could be totally out of line and the above may not be possible, but I suspect it is.

PK