Steering almost got me killed!

[tatt2r]

Sure glad you're ok.
Riding it with the power steering disconnected isn't bad at all. In fact, when I bought mine, the DPS was out and the new part was on order, so I drove it for the 1st 4 weeks with no power steering. You'll notice the difference in slow speeds, parking, etc. that it takes muscle to turn, but at higher speeds, it's not much different.

:thumbup:

 

[Extracool]

Steering problems

We had the exact same thing happen with our power steering, had the update, no help, had the powersteering replaced, no help, had the S.A.S. the sensor under the powersteering replaced at the suggestion of a BRP technician, that cured it, no more problems.:2thumbs:

 

[baldev]

We had the exact same thing happen with our power steering, had the update, no help, had the powersteering replaced, no help, had the S.A.S. the sensor under the powersteering replaced at the suggestion of a BRP technician, that cured it, no more problems.:2thumbs:

Get a superb attorney and sue the hell out of BRP.:gaah:

 

[Putt-Putt]

Well this certainly is a serious problem. And I believe people should certainly be allowed to state thier concerns without some 0ne jumping on them. As in previous posts. You'll never see a post from some one who its been fatal for; just a thought. Mine is in the shop right now for the second DPS upgrade. Wich I hope will cure the first upgrade. But this is deffinately more concerning than Backfiring--Surging--and Heating problems. :gaah:

 

[smokster]

There's a big difference between showing concern and just bashing and complaining like many are doing.

Is the steering a big issue - yes-- and as one of the original owners that had such problems - and filed the proper reports -- I fully understand the concern. But rather than just bash BRP like many are doing - why not offer some help.

Comments like "I wish I hadn't bought this" or "the Spyder is a maintenance nightmare" are not helping anything.

There isn't a Spyder on the road that isn't under warranty - so while these few issues might be 'big' - the expense isn't --- as these problems are 100% covered under warranty.

That would be an opinion that should be able to have been spoken.
At what point was that taken away?

Hearing her problems after the 2nd update, concerns me as well. And I have said those very words when I heard this, again, an opinion !

Sure it is under warranty, but how much time and effort has been wasted. Not to mention the confidence to go on a long leisurly ride without the fear of something happening on a nice twisty mountain road.

I just wish BRP would have figured out the problem with the first generation Spyders before they went into the RT series.

I just wonder if her update went through completely. I wish her the best on finding a solution and hope she can find the condidence that we all once had in our machine before is was "messed" with with these crazy updates.
That would be my opinion.

 

[Way2Fast]

Many here are trying to pinpoint what is causing the potentially fatal steering abnormalties experienced by some Spyder owners. This is 100% BRP's responsibility and not that of fustrated owners trying to figure it out by themselves. BRP manufactures the product and is expected to make it available for use on public roads ONLY after it is thoroughly tested and deemed safe. Apparently this is not the case. Even after "fix" on top of "fix" the vehicle is still not always roadworthy. If the problem is with incorrectly trained dealer tecs who do not know how to perform the updates, the problem still legally rests in the lap of BRP, the manufacturer. Dealerships should not be franchised unless they employ factory trained technicians who are qualified to correctly make repairs mandated under safety recalls. I will be giving BRP a choice....either refund my full purchase price now for a vehicle that I am "afraid" to continue using, or be prepared to face a lawsuit. I don't intend to be the guinea pig who puts his life on the line after every consecutive "update" waiting to see if it will fix the problem or cause worse ones !!!!

 

[Firefly]

I'm all for sharing various opinions - and contrary to what at least 3 out here think--- I'm not trying to moderate anything. You have strong opinions that are currently very negative - and I'm of the opinion that it's not constructive at all. So be it.

If you have problems - by all means - post about them - but stating generic things like 'the Spyder is a maintenance nightmare' without really telling your reasons behind that opinion doesn't really help anyone.

Sorry if SMY, RD and HDX (does he own a Spyder?) have actually had such problems--- but without you actually stating what you have personally had happen - those problems and what was or was not done - you just come across as chronic complainers.

ALL opinions should be shared --- good and bad --- but why not give some credence to your statements with some history of why you feel the way you do?

Just seems the 3 of you are really anti-BRP right now - and maybe with good cause - but I don't see you doing much to help things with such negative generalized statements.

How many people have you scared away from getting a Spyder this week?

Funny how Brian and Deb are the two actually being affected right now with two Spyders in the shop - but you don't hear them complaining as loud as some out here that are still on the road.

Even with the problems I've had (which have all been fixed) - I love the Spyder and will recommend it to people. Anything I had issues with was covered under the warranty. My longest shop visit was 7 days.

 

[Way2Fast]

_____________________________________________________________

Firefly;
You may as well lengthen your personal list of anti-BRP people to 4....by including myself.
I think that the more people are made aware of the severity of the problems plaguing many Spyder owners the better. Maybe if enough people are "scared away" from purchasing this POS, BRP will find it financially wise to provide more than a half-ass fix to the problems. I'd like to see how the WARRANTY would cover issues such as the grief, pain and suffering resulting from a serious injury or death caused by malfunctions, computer or otherwise, while operating a Spyder !!!!:gaah:

 

[Putt-Putt]

What's his name Marck Lacroix or how ever it is spelled. From BRP said that the spyder was in development for 10 yrs. and several generation bikes later is what they released for production to the public. My Question is with all that time none of the problems that we are having showed up hard to believe! Some of them minor but very irritating brake squeal just as an example.

 

[Tom in NM]

congenitally stupid . . . . and ignorant too! (me, that is)

Don't get me wrong... I luv my spyder, but what happened yesterday could have ended up really bad, not only for me but for the poor soul that I could have hit... not to mention my poor husband who would have watched it all. However, now that I have calmed down and put some thought into it I realize that I actually felt this starting Tuesday while I was on my way to the dealer for the second update, however it was very windy when I went that day and since it was just a brief glitch I just thought it was wind blowing me around... now I realize it was this problem just starting. This was before my second update.
..............
God has a way of looking out for us crazy people... that's why I have survived for so long LOL. This problem will be fixed and life will go on. I am just very happy no one got hurt... this time.

Pitmon, You did good! in a truly scary situation. My hat is off to you not only for your skill, but your attitude as well.

I had a very odd thing happen with my steering today as well.
............
In layman's terms, the bike's computer was reading that the steering was running off-center and was trying to correct it by pulling it to the left. The graphic was like looking at a clock. The hour hand should have been reading 12 o'clock, but it was displaying 1 o'clock.
That was reset to the 12 o'clock position, and my Spyder seems to be rolling along OK.

And thank you PhantomLady for sharing your experience and results - clear, concise and helpful ( to my understanding, at least )

I was told by a former BRP test rider that the power steering is an active part of the Stability Control System. It is designed to prevent the rider from turning the bars too sharply at higher speeds. This is to prevent the rider from possibly loosing control and flipping the vehicle from turning too much. . . . . . . .
During normal riding the operator makes many subconscience "corrections" with the bars to keep the vehicle going straight. BRP thinks that the steering is "locking" and there by hindering these small "corrections" causing the driver to force the handle bars too far in either direction and "oversteering" , resulting in a loss of control situation.

Way2Fast, I think the information you are relaying is correct, the steering is probably an integral part of the VSS. I also agree that the problems should be reported, though I would do it in this order: Dealer, BRP, NHTSA. The owner should use their own judgement as to the time interval between those 3 parties, but it should be reported, even if it is fixed after the first call.

One of my areas of technical expertise is in control systems... Following is a simple Control Systems 101 discourse so as to explain what I think may be happening here.
.................
Regardless of whether my hypothesis of cause is or is not on point, it is obvious to me that the feedback control system driving the power steering motor is, indeed, generating some very spurious control signals.

QM, an excellent hypothesis. And given some of the comments and experiences mentioned above and in other threads, besides "programming" issues, failing power steering units and/or failing sensors make this a highly variable situation as far as solutions go.

I have had some experience with programming and tuning PID controls myself, and your explanation makes very good sense.
. . . . . . .
At those times operator experience and skill must take over. I'm very glad Pitmon had that experience and skill in this situation.

Scotty, I could not agree more.

Now, here is what I have to add. I did a stupid thing! From what I have read, I was am not alone.

After having the first update done (with my scheduled maintenance) I rode home and rode for the next few weeks as I alway had. As it became clear there were various results from the update ( no change, same but different, negative changes and positive changes ) I realized how stupid I had been since getting the update. I should have rode the Spyder like I did when I first bought it and was breaking it ( and me ) in. In effect, I had a "new" Spyder --- how it ran, how it handled, the parameters for conditions that would effect it were changed.
I have worked on integrating complex systems, including the type of automation that Quadmaniac and Scotty mentioned - like those in the Spyder. I should have known better and exercised better judgement. That was stupid on my part. Small changes can have major implications - some of them totally unintended. Even adding luggage ( additional weight ) or handlebar anti-vibration inserts, can and will change how the Spyder handles and performs - sometimes radically in specific conditions.
I do think BRP and the dealers performing the updates should have advised people to pay attention and to carefully test handling and performance in their everyday riding routines, in effect saying, "You should treat your Spyder like you did when you first started riding - it may react differently from what you have experienced in the past. You may have to adjust or relearn some skills." These updates are being done to improve the quality of the Spyder's safety and in some cases, performance. But things can go wrong - both with the update AND with the mechanical aspects of the Spyder, which could be interdependent or coincidental.

You may feel this makes things "too uncertain" or "unreliable" and that it is not "right" or is just "too complex" and "inconvenient". Please, make your own call and do what you think is right for you. For me, I like what Pitmon and Scotty said; "This problem will be fixed and life will go on." and "At those times operator experience and skill must take over." So, I am going to watch it, practice, and repeat my advice from above;

"You should treat your Spyder like you did when you first started riding - it may react differently from what you have experienced in the past. You may have to adjust or relearn some skills."

Tom
(still smiling)

 

[jwfranklin]

_____________________________________________________________

Firefly;
You may as well lengthen your personal list of anti-BRP people to 4....by including myself.
I think that the more people are made aware of the severity of the problems plaguing many Spyder owners the better. Maybe if enough people are "scared away" from purchasing this POS, BRP will find it financially wise to provide more than a half-ass fix to the problems. I'd like to see how the WARRANTY would cover issues such as the grief, pain and suffering resulting from a serious injury or death caused by malfunctions, computer or otherwise, while operating a Spyder !!!!:gaah:

Make that 5, when I am asked about the Spyder, I tell them it is a piece of Junk and to not waste their time or money. I missed enjoying almost all the riding season. First my Spyder would sometimes not start. Ran fine when it would start, but afraid to even stop for gas, afraid it would not start back up. Would eventually start most times, but had to be trailered home one time. Where it then started right up. After 2 different dealers working on it and almost a month in the shop, where the second dealer did the first update. Then it starts everytime, but runs like crap. Now it is getting cooler we get the second update. Warranty does nothing to compensate for lost of use of machine, loss of enjoyment for something I paid good money for, not to mention the pure fustration. Don't get me wrong I love the concept and even love the spyder when operating correctly. But that is only about half the time. I didn't pay half the money.

 

[krb1945]

Pitmon--- fuse is F4

I got lost in the post and I don't know if you ever got the fuse number.

it is F4 and it is a 5 amp on both the SE / SM models. I checked my 08 and 09 and they are the same.

I'm 50 miles south of Lake City FL and if push comes to shove I can hook to my trailer and come up and trailer you back.

Ken

 

[pitmon]

Thanks a lot KRB and all the others who have been so supportive. Hubby left this morning and got a truck and trailer, he should be back any minute now. We are going to trailer the bike and go and enjoy at least a day or two in the mountains (in the truck of course) and that way the vacation won't be a total loss. We will go back home in a day or two and take the bike to our dealer to get it fixed. I will keep you all posted as to what they say.

 

[NancysToy]

Thanks a lot KRB and all the others who have been so supportive. Hubby left this morning and got a truck and trailer, he should be back any minute now. We are going to trailer the bike and go and enjoy at least a day or two in the mountains (in the truck of course) and that way the vacation won't be a total loss. We will go back home in a day or two and take the bike to our dealer to get it fixed. I will keep you all posted as to what they say.

Glad you guys could salvage something out of this. You deserve a coiple of days off now. Enjoythe mountains.

 

[Smylinacha]

I'm all for sharing various opinions -

But you aren't all for listening to what others have to say

Sorry if SMY, RD and HDX (does he own a Spyder?) Yes, he owns one - he is my husband and what's mine is his.

have actually had such problems--- but without you actually stating what you have personally had happen - those problems and what was or was not done - you just come across as chronic complainers. I stated my problem about the steering that totally freaked me out and I ride with RD who's Spyder has been in the shop frequently - many of those days during prime riding season.

Just seems the 3 of you are really anti-BRP right now - and maybe with good cause - but I don't see you doing much to help things with such negative generalized statements.

What do you want me to do? Call Carlo :roflblack: Like what's he gonna do?

How many people have you scared away from getting a Spyder this week?

I do not advertise my Spyder. I don't tell people anything. When someone walks up to it, I walk away since I don't like getting bombarded w/ questions - I'm sick of it. I do not want to be a rock star.

Funny how Brian and Deb are the two actually being affected right now with two Spyders in the shop - but you don't hear them complaining as loud as some out here that are still on the road. They have lots of patience - I do not. I've owned several bikes before this - never seen such a "maintenance nightmare" before - not with any of my other bikes.
Even with the problems I've had (which have all been fixed) - I love the Spyder and will recommend it to people. Good you go right ahead - I'm not slamming you for doing so.

My longest shop visit was 7 days.

We can avoid the shop as HDX can fix pretty much anything but it still doesn't give me confidence that all is well. I'm not backing down on how I feel.

 

[sleepman]

How many people have you scared away from getting a Spyder this week?

I can guarantee that I cost BRP the sale of at least 1 Spyder for certain. It was a rider that I didn't know before I had my Spyder, but we had numerous conversations about my Spyder and he would often drop by my work to get my opinion and check out my Spyder. I set him up for a test ride through my dealer and he still was uncertain. I was up front and honest about my problems while still declaring it a fun machine to ride. Well he finally decided not to pull the trigger based off of my problems with my former Spyder.

 

[mrb]

Let me say straight up I have had no Spyder problems apart from squeeling brakes since new and rough running since the first update - I am about to have the second one done. I noticed no difference in the steering after update #1.

The local Australian TV stations have been running a story about an incident in a Qantas Airbus A330 (fly by wire) where it went into a dive and was only just recovered in time to save a tragedy. I admit I dont have the details but the media are reporting that it is "believed" to be incorrect data going to the flight computer and that pilots are relauctant to fly that aircraft now.

This, to my untrained mind, seems a likely scenario with the Spyder. I too am becoming relauctant to ride mine and short of some acceptance of the problem and effort by BRP I dont know what the answer is.

I spoke to one of the biggest dealers here a few weeks ago and his belief was these issues are "pilot error" and the steering issues were all internet hype. You may recall we had a mother and daughter leave the road on a corner here a month or two back, going down a 15mt drop. They both ended up in intensive care. This was a few days after update #1 and we have not heard anything back regarding that one yet. BRP Australia were trying to get the data off of the bike I am told.

 

[Firefly]

Thanks a lot KRB and all the others who have been so supportive. Hubby left this morning and got a truck and trailer, he should be back any minute now. We are going to trailer the bike and go and enjoy at least a day or two in the mountains (in the truck of course) and that way the vacation won't be a total loss. We will go back home in a day or two and take the bike to our dealer to get it fixed. I will keep you all posted as to what they say.

Glad you managed to find a solution and can still have some fun. I'm sure you'll get things fixed and enjoy your Spyder once again.

I had steering problems very early on - and after I got them fixed it took me awhile to feel 100% confident ----- but it's better than ever now.

Mine was the GPS (Gear Position Sensor or Angle Sensor). Never had problems after that--- also had the 1st software update before going to the Smokies--- and that made things a bit smoother overall.

Keep us posted.

 

[Firefly]

Let me say straight up I have had no Spyder problems apart from squeeling brakes since new and rough running since the first update - I am about to have the second one done. I noticed no difference in the steering after update #1.

The local Australian TV stations have been running a story about an incident in a Qantas Airbus A330 (fly by wire) where it went into a dive and was only just recovered in time to save a tragedy. I admit I dont have the details but the media are reporting that it is "believed" to be incorrect data going to the flight computer and that pilots are relauctant to fly that aircraft now.

This, to my untrained mind, seems a likely scenario with the Spyder. I too am becoming relauctant to ride mine and short of some acceptance of the problem and effort by BRP I dont know what the answer is.

I spoke to one of the biggest dealers here a few weeks ago and his belief was these issues are "pilot error" and the steering issues were all internet hype. You may recall we had a mother and daughter leave the road on a corner here a month or two back, going down a 15mt drop. They both ended up in intensive care. This was a few days after update #1 and we have not heard anything back regarding that one yet. BRP Australia were trying to get the data off of the bike I am told.

I do remember that accident --- wasn't the 15 year old daughter driving the bike with her mom on the back and they hit another vehicle? Pretty sure that one was pilot error.

After riding all over the Smokey mountains - I've never felt more confident in my Spyder. Ran like a champ - handles GREAT.

 

[Smylinacha]

Yes! I keep wondering about her - haven't seen her or her daughter post in a wihle - I am wondering if her steering went bonkers and caused her accident. How scary, huh? I wish she would post!

Let me say straight up I have had no Spyder problems apart from squeeling brakes since new and rough running since the first update - I am about to have the second one done. I noticed no difference in the steering after update #1.

The local Australian TV stations have been running a story about an incident in a Qantas Airbus A330 (fly by wire) where it went into a dive and was only just recovered in time to save a tragedy. I admit I dont have the details but the media are reporting that it is "believed" to be incorrect data going to the flight computer and that pilots are relauctant to fly that aircraft now.

This, to my untrained mind, seems a likely scenario with the Spyder. I too am becoming relauctant to ride mine and short of some acceptance of the problem and effort by BRP I dont know what the answer is.

I spoke to one of the biggest dealers here a few weeks ago and his belief was these issues are "pilot error" and the steering issues were all internet hype. You may recall we had a mother and daughter leave the road on a corner here a month or two back, going down a 15mt drop. They both ended up in intensive care. This was a few days after update #1 and we have not heard anything back regarding that one yet. BRP Australia were trying to get the data off of the bike I am told.