Spyder running bad (Confused)

[CaptRalph]

Ok, I rode back from work paying real good attention to evrything going on as much as I could. The :spyder:bike ran fine for a couple of miles until I hit 4 bars in the temp. Then at a steady speed of 50 then later on at 60, it started sputtering, missing, hesitating, and ran rough for the rest of the ride home (another 6 miles).

My :spyder2: has always backfired when decelerating (I have a Hindle), but now is really marked, really loud, and a lot of it. I'm not a mechanic, but I'm thinking that this can not be good for the engine.

I contacted BRP's Customer Service and also my dealer to document it. Tomorrow I will try to reset by disconnecting the battery and idling for 15 mins. I'll let you all know if it makes a difference. Other than that, if you are not having a problem with your steering now, and your :f_spider: is running OK, I would seriously consider holding off on the recall, until more is known.

 

[bone crusher]

I'm not sure the purpose of the idle for 15 minutes ? That was a procedure dealing with installing the Hindle pipe - I don't think it had anything to do with the ecu - but more with the Hindle warming up and cooling down for the first run after install.

No, the 15 minutes for the hindle is to reset the mapping for the change in exhaust...nothing to do with warming it up and cooling it down...it is a brain change for the bike...

 

[bone crusher]

. . . . . and if I had the update applied with the JB on and was having some of the troubles that are being posted, I would take it back and have it re-applied - with the JB off. Something that should be done ANYTIME that the Spyder is hooked up to the computer.

I do not have the Juice Box, but given the issues being reported, I would not turn it back on until I heard back from the manufacturer and got their recommendations on new mappings.

There may be other issues for some riders that are effecting how the engine is running. But, you will never get to the bottom of it if there are countless variables "in the loop".

Excellent advice, Bonecrusher!

My 2 cents.
Tom

Thank you...it makes sense to me as the JB changes the fuel injection...if the software is doing the same (apparently it is), then this could create some havoc. There is a setting on the JB to 'shut it off'...likely put in there for this type of reason...can always play with it after the bike is acclimated to the new software....

 

[bjt]

I just got back from having the update and 3K mile service done. I have the same set up, JB, Hindle, and green filter, and have the same problem with the surging when trying to hold a constant speed. I will try to reset ECU and let it idle.
Also, when they brought the bike around for me to leave, I started it and the check engine light came on and "CHECK DPS" started scrolling across the screen. I shut it off and went back inside to tell them. They came out, started it and everything was fine. They pulled it back in, hooked it up to the computer and said everything checked out. I leave, drive 120 miles and stop for gas on my way back to work. When I start it at the gas station the same thing happened again. I try turning it off for a couple of minutes and restarting it but it is still there. I am 10 miles from work so I drive it like that with NO powersteering. I call the dealer when I get to work he tells me to take the key out and walk away from the spyder more than ten feet so it will lose connection with key. Stay away for at least 1 minute and that will reset the codes in the cluster. I do what he says and it works. The message is gone and powersteering is working, for now.
I didn't have any problems before I took it in. :gaah:

I would be prepared to eventually have your DPS replaced. Mine behaved similarly before the steering update (power steering worked on and off and finally just quit working) and they ended up replacing the DPS module.

 

[Batmobile]

I would be prepared to eventually have your DPS replaced. Mine behaved similarly before the steering update (power steering worked on and off and finally just quit working) and they ended up replacing the DPS module.

Ok, Thanks. I will mention that to them.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

JB Tweaking

I have been doing a little more tweaking on the JB since the software upgrade and I think i've about got this thing running like a thoroughbred. nojokeThere is no doubt that it runs better. Don't know if the upgrade had anything to do with it or not, or just could be some better JB settings to enhance the upgrade. Whatever it is, it's working. Was pretty sick for a while though.:f_spider:

 

[jedd]

Ok I still have yet to have update done, however as bonecrusher stated theJB should be disabled any time ECU is disconnected or re-programmed then run machine the 15 minutes + maybe 100 miles or so then reset JB to your settings. If the ECU is in its learn mode (1st 15 minutes) and JB is also trying to do its thing the ECU will try to compensate the JB out of the loop. I would also add any mods you do, filters, pipes, air box, or JB , disconnect battery for the 20 minutes then idle for 15 minutes. Then adjust JB. Let the ECU learn all it can 1st then add the enhancments of the JB. I've re-done all mods this way and all irratic sputtering is gone. My problems were very similar to alot of these in this thread, I refer to them as electrical Gremlins:thumbup:

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

JB

Ok I still have yet to have update done, however as bonecrusher stated theJB should be disabled any time ECU is disconnected or re-programmed then run machine the 15 minutes + maybe 100 miles or so then reset JB to your settings. If the ECU is in its learn mode (1st 15 minutes) and JB is also trying to do its thing the ECU will try to compensate the JB out of the loop. I would also add any mods you do, filters, pipes, air box, or JB , disconnect battery for the 20 minutes then idle for 15 minutes. Then adjust JB. Let the ECU learn all it can 1st then add the enhancments of the JB. I've re-done all mods this way and all irratic sputtering is gone. My problems were very similar to alot of these in this thread, I refer to them as electrical Gremlins:thumbup:

Bonecrusher may be giving the right advice. I didn't take my JB off or anything else and I did have problems for a while. All I did was do some quick temporary adjustments to the JB to get it home (which was 300 miles) and I just drove the hell out of it for those 300 miles. Now I have refined my settings on the JB and the thing has never ran better.

 

[Firefly]

No, the 15 minutes for the hindle is to reset the mapping for the change in exhaust...nothing to do with warming it up and cooling it down...it is a brain change for the bike...

Good to know....

I have not had any of the problems you JB users have been having - of course my fuel pressure mod is mechanical---which would explain the ECU not having such problems as you have.

 

[Capt John]

Bonecrusher may be giving the right advice. I didn't take my JB off or anything else and I did have problems for a while. All I did was do some quick temporary adjustments to the JB to get it home (which was 300 miles) and I just drove the hell out of it for those 300 miles. Now I have refined my settings on the JB and the thing has never ran better.

What settings are you running on the JB? I'm still trying to dial mine in.

 

[effgjamis]

After the upgrade, I disconnected the battery due to the surge at steady throttle speeds... It seemed much better and hardly detectable..BUT Yesterday on a ride to Cresent City, Fl ( 80 miles one way ) the surge returned.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Anyone aware of a BRP fix for this??????? or fix by anyone????

 

[krb1945]

SM5 not missing any more after this...

The SM5 had a little miss every now and again on really rough roads. I had not driven it many miles yet... but the miss was enough that I heard and felt it.

Sooooo... I decided adding the extra coil ground helped her SE5 with shifting and a slight miss on rough pavement I would add it to the SM5. Low and Behold... the SM5 does not miss now on rough pavement after adding that extra coil ground. It appears that the coil mount must have enough movement that there is an intermittent ground interruption when it is being shaken and not stirred.

Who knows it might help you too! But it seems each spyder is an entity unto itself.

 

[bone crusher]

What settings are you running on the JB? I'm still trying to dial mine in.

For those who have the JB....the 'off' settings are modes 1,2, and 3 all set to 0.5...that will take the JB offline so that the stock configuration is running.

I won't tweak my settings until I get the update done...

For now (and I know you were asking black widow), I'm at 3,4,5,3,3.

 

[Capt John]

For those who have the JB....the 'off' settings are modes 1,2, and 3 all set to 0.5...that will take the JB offline so that the stock configuration is running.

I won't tweak my settings until I get the update done...

For now (and I know you were asking black widow), I'm at 3,4,5,3,3.

I set my JB to the same settings. At 1st there seems to be a few incidences of low speed sputtering and still some surging in the 3800-4200 RPM range. After a good conversation with Black Widow. I decided to take his advice and run the :spyder2: at these settings for about 300 miles and see how it works out. I have noticed less and less as I put more miles on it. He running different settings, but is in a dryer climate and I right in the middle of humidity central.

I thought the gas mileage was getting better. Only 28.39 on this last fill up, but the last 70 miles I push it harder than ever before. So this may be a little deceiving. I'll try not to do this on the next tank. To try and get a better idea on MPG.

 

[ptoemmes]

Thanks for being one of the pioneers in this recall-update. As someone with a high flow air filer (not the Race Air Flow) and high-flow aftermarket exhaust - with Evoluzione's O2 elim - I have a keen interest in this.

Here's my recollection/understanding of what Ken of Evoluzione has generally said about the stock (before the update) ECM and" fuel look up tables". Please correct me if I am wrong - info like this should always be corroborated.

In open loop mode where the sensors - O2 sensor in particular - is ignored (WOT is an example) I believe Ken has stated that the air-fuel look up tables had enough headroom in them to deal with the tendency of a high-flow air filter and/or high flow exhaust to lean out the bike.

Closed loop where the sensors - again in particular the O2 sensor - is used to derive the fuel needs was always on the lean side for stock and especially for aftermarket high-flow air filter and/or high flow exhaust which, again, tend to lean out the bike. In particular it is the O2 elim that helps to richen the mixture under these conditions.

If, as excellently described here by observation, this update leans the bike out even more than before - that suggests to me they have done that probably in the "fuel look up tables" which means that the headroom for adding after market high flow air filter and/or high-flow exhaust may be less or even non existent any more.

I'd be curious as to anyone's thoughts if this makes sense or might even be true.

If true then short or putting the stock exhaust back on - and maybe even the original air filter - a solution would be something like a Juice Box.

And those already with a JB would be looking at some fine tuning, but I'd think that would mean adding more fuel in probably most of of the modes the JB supports.

All speculation...

Pete

 

[Capt John]

Yes, you're description is accurate.......Thing is, without having any AFR run files to look at and compare before/after it's all speculation. If folks are seeing increased post update mpg, it could be leaner mixtures, or advanced ignition timing, or a combination of both. I had the update done on Kim's bike last week-Green filter, 2 Bros. pipe, and Evo o2 mod- and performance has not degraded. No surging, stuttering, afterfiring, etc.....BTW, we only run 93 octane......Not seeing the need for a JB yet........

The JB was something I was looking into before the "fix" because of low speed sputtering and the surging I was getting in the 3800-4200 RPM range. I had the recall done before JB was installed.
Now I'm just trying to get it dialed in with the changes BRP has implemented with the "fix". Does anyone know for sure if you disconnect the battery for 30 min and then let it idle will this reset the bike? Or does the computer learn as you put more miles on it? If resetting does work? Does the JB settings effect this learning cycle? Someone with more knowledge please chime in... maybe Scotty, bjt, HDXBONES, firefly, BoneCrusher, BajaRon or Lamont

 

[ptoemmes]

Not stating it as fact, but it is believed that disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes or so clears the Block Learn Tables which may be the same tables you refer to as being updated constantly.

If so then it might logically follow - but still speculation - that clearing the tables permits a faster - or maybe cleaner - re-learn period than just idling or putting around.

No too long ago there was quite a bit of controversy on all this and I have no desire to re-visit that except when dead-nut someone knows what is going on which probably means "cracking" the ECU.

BTW - I recently had some custom exhaust work done and the shop is a (small) PowerCommander dealer. They called Dynojet and were told that nothing is in the works for the Spyder. Could be disinformation...thank goodness the JB seems to work - once properly set or now reset. The JB is inline with the O2 sensor circuit - I dunno but I'll bet it isn't jist passing an unmodified signal through.

On a more pedestrian note I am about to go do battle with the 3" ESI risers.

Pete

 

[dave01]

Just had the update done this morning and my Spyder is doing the same as some others. Surging, backfiring, rough running at constant speed, etc. I'll try the battery unhook reset to see if that helps, but I wish BRP would have only fixed the steering problem instead of messing with other stuff that was working just fine......BRP, ARE YOU READING ANY OF THESE!!!!!:gaah::gaah::gaah:

 

[bjt]

My Spyder is running better all around since having the update done. The engine runs smoother and I think I'm getting better gas mileage too.