Spyder RT & RTS Steering Tuning Tips

[IdleUp]

RT-S Tuning

I’ve had my Spyder RS for almost 2 years now and never had a problem with the steering, (other than the steering quits every now and then) it’s always been predictable and easy to steer even in bad weather or in strong winds.

However, If you happen to have a RT or RTS you might have a common problem where the bike steering is over-sensitive.

Below I’ve provided a few tips that will help the problem considerably. The problem with most (not all) of the RT and RTS models is they tend to over-steer sometimes in both directions, yet others tend to over-steer in just one direction. Mine happens to over-steer when making a right turn. It’s to the point that it can be dangerous, expressly on wet roads or when making an unexpected move to avoid a car or object in the road. Normally when you make a lane change or corner around a turn, it takes a fair amount of pressure on the steering before the power steering unit begins to assist. With some RT and RTS models as you move the steering, nothing much really happens then all of a sudden the DPS kicks in and you find yourself turning more than expected. While the following is not a fix for the problem, it definitely helps until BRP gets with the program and re-designs a DPS system that works.

Shock Springs

First off – forget everything you’ve heard about setting the shock and all that good ride and handling garb. Adjust the tension so the shock spring is compressed all the way to hardest setting. This in itself will prevent “some” the dreaded roll syndrome the RT and RTS has where for some reason, BRP decided make the ride softer, which causes the RT and RTS to constantly roll with each dip in the road and or wind gust which results in the rider having to steer the bike almost 100% of the time. Of course, the more you steer the bike to correct these movements, the more it compounds the problem. Tight shock springs will make an instant improvement without the loss of any riding comfort.

Air Pressure

Bottom line - the more air pressure you run in the front tires the better the bike will handle for the simple fact that the less contact area you have, the less grip you have to the road and of course the less over-steer you’ll have as well.

It’s simple equation - if the tires are only pumped up to the (BRP recommended pressure) of 16-17 lbs you will have 6+ inches of contact area contacting the road as well as the outside edge of the tire digging in on a heavy turn. In contrast, If you pump up the tires to 25-30 lbs. I use 30 lbs. ( don’t panic - this is what they are rated for) you now ride on the center of the tire thereby reducing over 50% of the contact area and also reducing the steering ability considerable. I’m running 30 lbs in my front tires and I can truly say it has improved the handing of the bike an easy 50%.
There’s also another bonus to running higher air pressure, and that is less roll between the rim (the bike) and the thread commonly know as side-wall flex. As you grab your handlebars and pull the bike side to side, watch the rim and the ground and you’ll see with low pressure the bike easily rolls right and left because with low pressure there is very little resistance to prevent this from happening. With 25-30 lbs of air pressure, you’ll see very little side-wall flex which dramatically helps improve the dreaded roll syndrome the RT and RTS now have.

I know this is not a fix but I’ll tell you this improves the handling of the Spyder considerably.

Ride Safe - Mike Mas

 

[sinkhole]

RT-S Tuning


Air Pressure

In contrast, If you pump up the tires to 25-30 lbs. I use 30 lbs. ( don’t panic - this is what they are rated for) you now ride on the center of the tire thereby reducing over 50% of the contact area and also reducing the steering ability considerable. I’m running 30 lbs in my front tires and I can truly say it has improved the handing of the bike an easy 50%.

Sounds like a plan! :2thumbs: I've been running 18# in my front tires and after returning from an 80 mile run on Saturday up the "twisties" to Monteagle, Tn., I notices some scrubbing on the edge of the tread. I think I'll start at 25psi and see how that works.

 

[fastfraser]

Won't you wear the center of the tire down quicker with 30 PSI ?:dontknow:

 

[IdleUp]

Won't you wear the center of the tire down quicker with 30 PSI ?:dontknow:

No more so than and other tire with 30 lbs to include the rear tire.

 

[NancysToy]

Everyone has their own handling desires and needs. I agree that reducing the tendency to wallow and oversteer is desireable. I have set my front spring preload to the maximum, and it has helped reduce the body roll in a corner and the tendency for sudden oversteer as the suspension bottoms out, immensely. Heavier or more aggressive riders may not have enough adjustment available with the stock springs.

The tires are another matter. Like the RS, they do seem to need more than the recommended 13-17 psi (15-17 psi in the US). Be aware that there is a trade-off here, however. I have found that 17-18 psi is about all my RTS can accept, without trading the tendency to dive into the corners and oversteer, for a tendency to squirm and hunt while going straight down the road. Hot temperatures increase this tendency. I have been unable to run the 20 psi I use on Nancy's RS, successfully on my RTS.

I recommend that each ryder adjust both the spring tension and the front tire pressure to suit his/her own needs. Do only one at a time, and go in small, one step or one pound increments. Remember that tire pressures are best checked cold. If you adjust them hot, try to make it under the same conditions each time (ride the same stretch of road, let it rest the same amount of time, etc.) for accuracy. When you find what suits you, check the cold pressure in the morning, to get the true inflation pressure.

I'll add one more adjustment that may help. Raising the rear of the Spyder reduces the castor slightly, thus increasing steering sensitivity. This amplifies the tendency to oversteer, and makes for more nervous straight-line handling. I recommend running the rear suspension setting no higher than the settings BRP has recommended in the manual. If you want to run higher, and stiffen up the back to your liking, make sure you have your dealer adjust the height sensor to the revised settings, using the new procedure provided in a recent service bulletin. Failure to do so could result in a blown shock absorber when the suspension tops out. This will seriously degrade your handling.

Remember that there is no set formula for these adjustments. Rider weight, riding habits, road conditions, carrying a passenger frequently, towing a trailer, or the type of riding each of us does, varies. Our settings may need to vary accordingly. Do what works best for you.

 

[canam9]

Nice write up!

Everyone has their own handling desires and needs. I agree that reducing the tendency to wallow and oversteer is desireable. I have set my front spring preload to the maximum, and it has helped reduce the body roll in a corner and the tendency for sudden oversteer as the suspension bottoms out, immensely. Heavier or more aggressive riders may not have enough adjustment available with the stock springs.

The tires are another matter. Like the RS, they do seem to need more than the recommended 13-17 psi (15-17 psi in the US). Be aware that there is a trade-off here, however. I have found that 17-18 psi is about all my RTS can accept, without trading the tendency to dive into the corners and oversteer, for a tendency to squirm and hunt while going straight down the road. Hot temperatures increase this tendency. I have been unable to run the 20 psi I use on Nancy's RS, successfully on my RTS.

I recommend that each ryder adjust both the spring tension and the front tire pressure to suit his/her own needs. Do only one at a time, and go in small, one step or one pound increments. Remember that tire pressures are best checked cold. If you adjust them hot, try to make it under the same conditions each time (ride the same stretch of road, let it rest the same amount of time, etc.) for accuracy. When you find what suits you, check the cold pressure in the morning, to get the true inflation pressure.

I'll add one more adjustment that may help. Raising the rear of the Spyder reduces the castor slightly, thus increasing steering sensitivity. This amplifies the tendency to oversteer, and makes for more nervous straight-line handling. I recommend running the rear suspension setting no higher than the settings BRP has recommended in the manual. If you want to run higher, and stiffen up the back to your liking, make sure you have your dealer adjust the height sensor to the revised settings, using the new procedure provided in a recent service bulletin. Failure to do so could result in a blown shock absorber when the suspension tops out. This will seriously degrade your handling.

Remember that there is no set formula for these adjustments. Rider weight, riding habits, road conditions, carrying a passenger frequently, towing a trailer, or the type of riding each of us does, varies. Our settings may need to vary accordingly. Do what works best for you.

What works best for you. Nail on the head.:ani29:

 

[IdleUp]

Bottom line is; these tuning tips were posted to help out guys with over-steer or over reactive handling problems. If your bike suffers from this problem, if you follow the instructions, you'll have a major improvement in the both safety and handling of your bike.

If your bike handles fine, then just follow your own feeling of what works best for you.

I might also note that on at least my bike, the rear suspension adjustment has no effect what-so-ever on my bike. Another note is; if you are heavy or if you carry a passenger or luggage, it will also worsen the handling since it raises the center of gravity of the bike as it leans into or out of a turn.

Thanks

 

[TicketBait]

RT-S Tuning

Shock Springs

Air Pressure

Bottom line - the more air pressure you run in the front tires the better the bike will handle for the simple fact that the less contact area you have, the less grip you have to the road and of course the less over-steer you’ll have as well.

:wrong:

It’s simple equation - if the tires are only pumped up to the (BRP recommended pressure) of 16-17 lbs you will have 6+ inches of contact area contacting the road as well as the outside edge of the tire digging in on a heavy turn. In contrast, If you pump up the tires to 25-30 lbs. I use 30 lbs. ( don’t panic - this is what they are rated for) you now ride on the center of the tire thereby reducing over 50% of the contact area and also reducing the steering ability considerable. I’m running 30 lbs in my front tires and I can truly say it has improved the handing of the bike an easy 50%.
There’s also another bonus to running higher air pressure, and that is less roll between the rim (the bike) and the thread commonly know as side-wall flex. As you grab your handlebars and pull the bike side to side, watch the rim and the ground and you’ll see with low pressure the bike easily rolls right and left because with low pressure there is very little resistance to prevent this from happening. With 25-30 lbs of air pressure, you’ll see very little side-wall flex which dramatically helps improve the dreaded roll syndrome the RT and RTS now have.

I know this is not a fix but I’ll tell you this improves the handling of the Spyder considerably.

Ride Safe - Mike Mas

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but

when we are talking about the safety of the

ride, I feel that the BRP engineers had to of

taken into account a tremendous amount of

scientific study. And to just toss that out the

window,with no preface other than your own

experience not being what you desired, could

be detrimental to some.


BRP had to come up with some guidelines that

they put their manufactures liability policy behind

for all the various type of humans that would get

on this machine.


I would imagine that most had an expectation

of how the ride was to feel before getting on.


And this is where the danger can lie.


We have different expectations from our

previous experiences. If you learn the

expectation that BRP wanted you to have

you would not need to make any alterations

to the bike outside of the parameters they have

given. How does a company orientate the

general public to give them a safe experience?


Which in many cases needing to change

someones expectation of how the ride is to

feel if they might be comparing it to an

altogether different animal. Namely a motorcycle.

how many read this everytime they get on their
Spyder , if you answered yes, then at the next
Owners event, maybe Bombardier will have a
contest to see who can recite it from memory
word for word ok easier question, how many
know where this is or for that matter what it is.

BRP offered Demo rides and a video and even

10 pages of instructions to practice.But still is

that enough. It could be quite an expensive

endeavor for a Co. to take on , but maybe an

optional choice for some that are not seeing

progress in their experience with the rewarding

potential this Spyder has to offer might well be

worth an additional cost of a few hundred dollars

for additional instruction to become proficient

of learning a new way to ride. After typing this,

I don't believe this would work as too many

peoples egos would be involved.



Everything I have previously stated in no way

should be confused with the Bikes that were built

with incorrect or faulty alignment or steering

issues like some have expressed on this forum.

No excuse that a bike should leave the factory not being 100%

and some of these issues are created by the dealership
network. BRP does monitor our feedback in surveys,
so be honest. Maybe we can get the bad ones weeded
out and keep the value of our bikes up.

On a side note yesterday I rode a friends brand

new RT from the dealership back to my house

with all the same settings I have on mine, to

see if there were any troubles or issues with

alignment etc. Would you like to know how it

compared to mine? It felt Identical to mine. Identical

and I didn't get them confuse cuz one was orbital

blue and one was timeless black





The general consensus from all those here is that

they would like a more firm ride. Hence the beefier sway

bars stiffer shocks, (for myself the stock components

are adequate) but when you get into the dynamics

of how you want the bike to feel under you, I don't

agree with the approach you suggest. My experience

when the tire pressure was increased just an additional

five pounds, the bike became noticeably less stable.

Could I have adapted , probably yes. But it just

felt weird, so I have gone through the same sense

probably that you have when the bike is set at the

factory settings and just not feeling right.



When I took my bike in for the 6k miles service, the

mechanic's helpers on his own increased the tire

pressure from 16 to 21 on the front tires thinking

they were helping. They are new at servicing the RT's

and probably haven't read the manuals as extensively

as we have.


Do you know that after I rode her the

12 miles home I knew something was wrong

and feared the worst. The bike steered just slightly

different and I was not liking it at all. Thank

goodness I then re checked the tire pressure the next

morning and corrected theissue. After re test riding

everything was back tonormal. I called up the dealership

and asked them to put in my profile "check but don't

change Tire & shock settings from these."



For myself this was an easy transition as I had no

previous motorcycle experience other than 2 days

on a motorcycle to get my MC license and learning

about counter steering.

The two days didn't have a chance to sink in enough and

as such I had to learn the feel of this 3 wheel bike from practice

practice practice on the dealers demo while I waited for delivery

I downloaded the manual and printed an extra copy of the

practice pages to study and do during my practice sessions

the seat of my pants. I use body english shifting my weight

in a turn and now after 7 months it comes naturally.

However I have read of many on this forum not

able to get use to the feel, and some have gone

back to there two wheelers.

What possibly helped my adaptation to this

was high performance driving in a cage car.



Too bad we can't get some spokesperson to

address the challenges and benefits you could

incur with these air pressure changes. There

is not the feeling of counter steering a turn

like a motorcycle. If you have 5yrs or 20

years or even 40 years of 2 wheel riding

you could be at a disadvantage with the

expectation that it doesn't feel like your

Harley or Goldwing.




Not sure if you saw the episode on SpeedTV

a few months back where they had 2 motorcycle

racing champions ride down from Lake Tahoe

to Malibu California on an RS, but they really

over emphasized the amount of body lean.

At first I thought it was for show, but now I

think they just weren't comfortable with how

radically different this machine is in a turn

compared to what they had previously ridden.





There is one other issue that we haven't faced

and is probably why BRP monitors but never

responds to our threads here, unless things get

too way out of hand. The hardest thing to do is

to say to self, " I don't know how to ride you."

Instead we say , "they did it all wrong, I am gonna

have to change the bikes parts out or I came

up with this tire pressure thing, put twice the

recommended pressure! "as long as it's under the

tires warning limit ...who knows maybe 90 lbs

is better, thats what Ive got in my bicycle

Below are listed my settings on a trouble free bike.

Be my guest to use these, but here is the

underlying criteria, and I don't know if it will be

the same for you. I ride on very good roads in

Southern California in very good climate since

I got the Bike on Jan 28th I have only been in

rain on 5 occasions and looked forward to the

experience, to gain experience in how the bike

would handle. Only once was the rain so furious

that my Nolan helmet told me to get under

cover, which I did

I am 6'2 and weigh 230lbs and ride solo 95%

of time, I pull trailer now that I got her 10%

of time with half load. My wife is 5'9 and weighs

150lbs and only goes on 3 day trips with

me maybe once a month. My dog rides with

me 38% of the time and weighs in at 5 1/2 lbs

my settings are front stock tires each at 16 to 16.5 lbs

rear stock tire at 26-28

stock front shocks at #5

rear shock at 70 lbs

just a note that when putting the rear
shock air in each time you check it you
will loose 5 lbs, so we put in 75 and then
check knowing it has dropped to 70

I wish everyone a safe and enjoyable ride most of the time with no tickets!

I just went to post and read your add on, this would have been great to insert in your original post, but over steer or under steer can be corrected if it is a mechanical issue, if it is inherent with the rider I still think they should fix themselves rather than alter the bikes physics, just change the psych And no I am not a psychiatrist

Bottom line is; these tuning tips were posted to help out guys with over-steer or over reactive handling problems. If your bike suffers from this problem, if you follow the instructions, you'll have a major improvement in the both safety and handling of your bike.

If your bike handles fine, then just follow your own feeling of what works best for you.

I might also note that on at least my bike, the rear suspension adjustment has no effect what-so-ever on my bike. Another note is; if you are heavy or if you carry a passenger or luggage, it will also worsen the handling since it raises the center of gravity of the bike as it leans into or out of a turn.

Thanks
__________________
R/C Helicopter Technician /Pilot

just scratching the surface.

 

[ScottyB]

Thank you

TicketBait,
Excellent and informant write up. Even though this is day three of riding my new Spyder RT, I am probable not the expert yet to do a commentary on my experiences. However, everything you shared, educate and most important your ride adventure is for sure the reason I finally got my Spyder RT. One thing I do know in the short time that I have had mine is this silly grin I can’t seem to get off my face from not only experiencing the ride but all the fun it has been. There goes looking like Mr. Cool! The Spyder seems to do all the work in that department, which just leaves me enjoying the ride of a lifetime.
Thank you as well as all the members here at Spyderlovers.com for all you do for us "Newbies" which has first made me a fan and now an owner.

ScottyB

 

[retired1]

New member

:congrats: scottyb and welcome.

 

[bikeguy]

I have 5500 miles on my RT. For the first 3000 miles I did everything the way BRP recommended with the exception of setting the front shock pre-load at the stiffest setting and running slightly less air pressure in the rear suspension. I had no previous experience with any type of 3 wheeler and I didn't feel qualified to make changes until I felt like I had learned to ride the thing.

Once I had 3000 miles I began experimenting with front tire pressures. In intervals of one pound, as close as my tire gauges will measure, I increased front tire pressure up to 22 psi, riding at least 100 miles at each setting to be sure I knew what I was feeling. At 22 psi, my own feeling was that the body roll had actually increased rather than decreased. I wasn't comfortable at the higher pressure so I gradually decreased the pressure and now I'm running 18 psi in the fronts.

I wonder if the sidewall flex is actually a good thing and what BRP intended when they put special motorcycle tires and recommended such low air pressure. Could it be that the sidewall flexes before the body rolls and a stiffer sidewall forces the body to roll more?

I have increased the rear tire pressure to 32 psi and it feels good.

My wife and I together weigh about 300 pounds and we run between 35 and 40 psi in the rear suspension. I find it nearly impossible to adjust the air pressure to the pound since, with such a small volume of air, I lose several pounds just checking it.

Once I felt like I knew how to ride it, my RT has always tracked straight and true with no wiggling, squirming, seeking, etc. on any type of paved surface. Even in pretty strong crosswinds it is easy to ride. The body roll is still more than I like and I plan to change the swaybar to a stiffer one to see what effect that will have. I've had the "nanny" kick in on several occasions but I have never felt like the tires ran out of grip at any pressure.

It's fun to ride and fun to play with different settings. I learn something every day.

Cotton

 

[zeebill]

RT-S Tuning

I’ve had my Spyder RS for almost 2 years now and never had a problem with the steering, (other than the steering quits every now and then) it’s always been predictable and easy to steer even in bad weather or in strong winds.

However, If you happen to have a RT or RTS you might have a common problem where the bike steering is over-sensitive.

Below I’ve provided a few tips that will help the problem considerably. The problem with most (not all) of the RT and RTS models is they tend to over-steer sometimes in both directions, yet others tend to over-steer in just one direction. Mine happens to over-steer when making a right turn. It’s to the point that it can be dangerous, expressly on wet roads or when making an unexpected move to avoid a car or object in the road. Normally when you make a lane change or corner around a turn, it takes a fair amount of pressure on the steering before the power steering unit begins to assist. With some RT and RTS models as you move the steering, nothing much really happens then all of a sudden the DPS kicks in and you find yourself turning more than expected. While the following is not a fix for the problem, it definitely helps until BRP gets with the program and re-designs a DPS system that works.

Shock Springs

First off – forget everything you’ve heard about setting the shock and all that good ride and handling garb. Adjust the tension so the shock spring is compressed all the way to hardest setting. This in itself will prevent “some” the dreaded roll syndrome the RT and RTS has where for some reason, BRP decided make the ride softer, which causes the RT and RTS to constantly roll with each dip in the road and or wind gust which results in the rider having to steer the bike almost 100% of the time. Of course, the more you steer the bike to correct these movements, the more it compounds the problem. Tight shock springs will make an instant improvement without the loss of any riding comfort.

Air Pressure

Bottom line - the more air pressure you run in the front tires the better the bike will handle for the simple fact that the less contact area you have, the less grip you have to the road and of course the less over-steer you’ll have as well.

It’s simple equation - if the tires are only pumped up to the (BRP recommended pressure) of 16-17 lbs you will have 6+ inches of contact area contacting the road as well as the outside edge of the tire digging in on a heavy turn. In contrast, If you pump up the tires to 25-30 lbs. I use 30 lbs. ( don’t panic - this is what they are rated for) you now ride on the center of the tire thereby reducing over 50% of the contact area and also reducing the steering ability considerable. I’m running 30 lbs in my front tires and I can truly say it has improved the handing of the bike an easy 50%.
There’s also another bonus to running higher air pressure, and that is less roll between the rim (the bike) and the thread commonly know as side-wall flex. As you grab your handlebars and pull the bike side to side, watch the rim and the ground and you’ll see with low pressure the bike easily rolls right and left because with low pressure there is very little resistance to prevent this from happening. With 25-30 lbs of air pressure, you’ll see very little side-wall flex which dramatically helps improve the dreaded roll syndrome the RT and RTS now have.

I know this is not a fix but I’ll tell you this improves the handling of the Spyder considerably.

Ride Safe - Mike Mas

I did not comment even though I felt your comments were counter productive and maybe even dangerous until I saw you repeating your suggestions on other forums but after seeing them elsewhere I feel I must comment.

First off anything that reduces the tire contact patch in anyway will not help and maybe make a dangerous situation to boot period! If you raise the tire pressuures as high as you recommend then as mentioned in another post you are completely removing the designed in compliance roll of the tire and increasing tendency to slide or drift the front end of the trike. It will increase the violence and quickness of the front end to break loose and maybe make a bad handling vehicle now dangerous. It will also add to the oversteer resulting in the above situation.

Second off the front of the Spyder tends to be a trailing throttle understeering component which when pushed tended to dart and not turn in hence the tendency for us as drivers to try and over correct. Pumping air into the front tires raises the front end (center of gravity goes up) and actually raises the spring rates too. This contributes to sliding the front end and makes it track even worse. Oversteer when simply stated is when the rear end tries to lead us into the corner and a spin usually results. These front ends all tend to not want to track through the corner making us try and correct constantly with steering input and that is classic understeering and classic driver input into the steering to correct it.

Thirdly you are dealing with a completely different animal with the RS versus the RTS. The RS has a smaller frontal area, a lighter weight, a smaller front track, smaller handle bars, and a supposed sports trike not a supposed touring trike. To even suggest that the answers for your RS are what we should be running and doing is ludicrous and down right dangerous.

The fourth point some of you are missing including the poster we are adjusting the spring preload and not the shock absorber as some people insist on refering to. We change nothing in the shock absorber at all when we twist more spring into the front end. The fact that we also try and put more air into the front tires mearly points out grafically how BuRP has missed the proper rate by quite a bit but to go super high is not the safest answer for sure.

Finally I also mention that yes this should completely wear the center of the tire out at a higher rate than normal. This was mentioned on another forum and I am bringing it up here too. Frankly I don't care if you take this in a personal way because it is more important to me that people realise you are way off base and using a test vehicle completely foreign to the RTS. I also want to restate these suggestions will result in a vehicle that could be downright dangerous and hurt someone. I surely hope people have enough sense to read thoroughly through this whole post and get a true picture of the Spyder's problems. Bill

 

[Jornie1]

Chicken Or the Egg...??

What's the old saying about opions & B-holes?? Everybody has one. I would never be so presumptious to wade off into that swamp. I will take exception with one point "IdleUp" made.

Some of you members out there, may recall that I had a very serious transmission/clutch problem with my RT SM5 at 621 miles. I never once contacted BRP about my problem, only my dealer and lots of queries here on SL.com. Carlo saw my posts on this site concerning my one of a kind problem and from the information gleaned from my posts, he called me not once but twice.. So, I know for a fact that BRP, especially Carlo reads posts on this site and responds to "Some"..."Not All"... concerns chronicled here. He was extremely helpful in the final resolution of my problem and I am happily back on the road on a two month long Spyder trip, culminating at the Spyder in the Smokies rally in Sept.

Hang in there all you engineers..all points well taken.. I spent nearly 40 years flying large commercial jet aircraft. I often wondered if the design engineers ever set foot in a real cockpit. However, other than ergonomics, the sliderule/cad dudes and dudettes were generally right-on when it came to the running gear...

I'll cast my vote with "What ever works best for you crowd"....Len..:2thumbs:

 

[zeebill]

What's the old saying about opions & B-holes?? Everybody has one. I would never be so presumptious to wade off into that swamp. I will take exception with one point "IdleUp" made.

My opinion comes after 11,000 miles on an RS and 2500 on the new RT-S which is why I am taking exception and making comment on the fact that idleup's recomendations are only in relation to his experience on the RS. They are two completely different animals and meant by design to be that way. One is supposed to be a sport trike and the other is a touring trike. Bill

Hang in there all you engineers..all points well taken.. I spent nearly 40 years flying large commercial jet aircraft. I often wondered if the design engineers ever set foot in a real cockpit. However, other than ergonomics, the sliderule/cad dudes and dudettes were generally right-on when it came to the running gear...

Your point on design engineers is well taken and I agree 100% but a lot of what is designed into the RT is marginal and judging by many people comments not working well to begin with! Throwing wild theories at a problem rarely works and in this case may be dangerous so I felt compelled to comment and point out what I think the dangers are. I am not an engineer in anyway but I survived almost 30 years of racing wheel to wheel and many more setting up many different types of cars. No one or myself was ever seriously hurt or killed in anything I had to do with while winning my share and a couple of track championships along the way. I must have learned something I would guess and among them I would hope when something is downright dangerous and might get someone hurt. I tend to agree with the comments below too but there is supposed to be an edge where it gets dangerous in every move you make in life and these tips cross them in my eyes. Bill
I'll cast my vote with "What ever works best for you crowd"....Len..:2thumbs:

Crossing the line can be dangerous! Bill