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Spyder Pricing and possible competiton
- Thread starter OldDog
- Start date
Dan_Ashley
New member
I looked at all 3
The Goldwing is BIG. It is a monster large machine. It costs a lot more, it has no dealer network, but it does have a bigger motor. If bigger motors are important, why not just get a VW trike? I've experienced no shortage of power with my Rotax engine. The Goldwing 1500 has 100 horsepower, the 1200 has 94. Um. The Spyder has what 106? So bigger is better only if you think in terms of displacement, not power output.
The only Harley trike I looked at was brand new at the dealer. It had a drip pan under it with kitty litter in it. 'Nuff said....Given the HIGH price of the Harley's I just regailed from buying a brand new dripper. The HD has 103 horsepower. It seemed to me to have less storage. It didn't have a nanny, and as irritating the nanny can be, it does provide a large margin of safety.
The Goldwing has a bigger owners group which is nice.
The HD has some really fine leathers you can buy.
The Goldwing sometimes has front end--head wobble.
The HD sometimes has differential lockups.
So, the best made machine really is the Can Am. It is not perfect.
Moreover, since it is a reverse trike, it is a lot safer. It has a dealer network, it has quality throughout, and its performance matches both HD and Goldwing. I suppose if I wanted insane performance i could have purchased a Boss Hoss--but I really don't think a Boss Hoss dealer network would support me in a cross country trip. I'm too much of a stuffed shirt for insane performance anyway.
By the way, my wife bought HD leathers anyway.
dan
The Goldwing is BIG. It is a monster large machine. It costs a lot more, it has no dealer network, but it does have a bigger motor. If bigger motors are important, why not just get a VW trike? I've experienced no shortage of power with my Rotax engine. The Goldwing 1500 has 100 horsepower, the 1200 has 94. Um. The Spyder has what 106? So bigger is better only if you think in terms of displacement, not power output.
The only Harley trike I looked at was brand new at the dealer. It had a drip pan under it with kitty litter in it. 'Nuff said....Given the HIGH price of the Harley's I just regailed from buying a brand new dripper. The HD has 103 horsepower. It seemed to me to have less storage. It didn't have a nanny, and as irritating the nanny can be, it does provide a large margin of safety.
The Goldwing has a bigger owners group which is nice.
The HD has some really fine leathers you can buy.
The Goldwing sometimes has front end--head wobble.
The HD sometimes has differential lockups.
So, the best made machine really is the Can Am. It is not perfect.
Moreover, since it is a reverse trike, it is a lot safer. It has a dealer network, it has quality throughout, and its performance matches both HD and Goldwing. I suppose if I wanted insane performance i could have purchased a Boss Hoss--but I really don't think a Boss Hoss dealer network would support me in a cross country trip. I'm too much of a stuffed shirt for insane performance anyway.
By the way, my wife bought HD leathers anyway.
dan
DoggyDaddy
New member
Why Buy An Unproven Product?
Assuming for a moment that there will factory competitors on the market in the near future, why would you buy one? Let's see, you will be dealing with new technology which could translate into reliability issues (just ask BRP!). Of course when you are out on the open road and have a problem what are your chances of finding a qualified mechanic AND parts to fix the new machine? Oh, let's not forget the lack of accessories for any new model....let the "farkleing" begin...not!
O.K. maybe I am being a bit too harsh. However, let's face it, unless someone is going to come out with a Spyder-like configuration (two wheels up front) you are going to have stability and handling issues just as you do on any of the current crop of trike conversions. After a recent trip through the Sonora pass here in CA I am quite certain that it would be no fun making the ride on a Lehman, Champion or Motor trike. All of those machines can easily cost $10k more than a comparable Spyder with no advantages whatsoever.
If there is competition, great....we should all welcome it! What we should not expect is BRP to lower the prices on the Spyders. What I would hope to see is BRP step-up its game with tweaks and improvements to existing products. :doorag:
Assuming for a moment that there will factory competitors on the market in the near future, why would you buy one? Let's see, you will be dealing with new technology which could translate into reliability issues (just ask BRP!). Of course when you are out on the open road and have a problem what are your chances of finding a qualified mechanic AND parts to fix the new machine? Oh, let's not forget the lack of accessories for any new model....let the "farkleing" begin...not!
O.K. maybe I am being a bit too harsh. However, let's face it, unless someone is going to come out with a Spyder-like configuration (two wheels up front) you are going to have stability and handling issues just as you do on any of the current crop of trike conversions. After a recent trip through the Sonora pass here in CA I am quite certain that it would be no fun making the ride on a Lehman, Champion or Motor trike. All of those machines can easily cost $10k more than a comparable Spyder with no advantages whatsoever.
If there is competition, great....we should all welcome it! What we should not expect is BRP to lower the prices on the Spyders. What I would hope to see is BRP step-up its game with tweaks and improvements to existing products. :doorag:
durango kid
New member
BRP, Arctic Cat, Polaris,& Yamaha all make snowmobiles. In the same engine classes and use areas ie: sport, touring,and big bump the pricing is close to each other.
HedonismBot
New member
A new Harley & Goldwing trike were both more expensive than the Spyder when we looked by a significant margin. When compared to those, I think you get a great value considering the features.
daveinva
New member
I think the only potential area for price competition is in the "sport" model segment. The RS has a lot of features that bring you close already to the ST & RT; one can figure that a competitor could design a less-complex "stripper" model to undercut RS sales.
But in the ST and RT market? No way in heck is the pricing coming down, they'll all synch within $1000 of each other. And at these price points, I know I'm not basing my decisions on a mere thousand dollars (yes, it's real money, especially in tough times, but over the life of owning a $20K-$30K+ farkle monster, a grand ain't bupkus).
No, the best thing about competition, if it occurs, will be competition in quality, features, and service. I think BRP has already demonstrated pretty well what the market will *pay* for reverse trikes; the question from here on out is whether people will pay the same for a competitor with (theoretically) better quality and more appealing features.
But in the ST and RT market? No way in heck is the pricing coming down, they'll all synch within $1000 of each other. And at these price points, I know I'm not basing my decisions on a mere thousand dollars (yes, it's real money, especially in tough times, but over the life of owning a $20K-$30K+ farkle monster, a grand ain't bupkus).
No, the best thing about competition, if it occurs, will be competition in quality, features, and service. I think BRP has already demonstrated pretty well what the market will *pay* for reverse trikes; the question from here on out is whether people will pay the same for a competitor with (theoretically) better quality and more appealing features.
There lies the problem with BRP and the Spyders. Too complex vs the Harley Davidson whatever model. Do you think simple might be better when it comes to work on them? Also they are less likely to break down with idiot codes.:doorag:
OldDog
New member
Elio vs Spyder
I can't really compare an Elio to a Spyder other than they both have a reverse three wheeled stance. An Elio, to me, is more of a cool commuter (ie car) vehicle. A spyder has more of of an open air motorcycle feel to it, which appeals to me more.
Regarding the the pricing question of a Spyder, my broken record whine is that my wife simply thinks it's too much money for a toy, period. :banghead: :roflblack:
On the other hand, I'm not real keen on buying a used one. Oh well, I'm blessed in many other ways and I love stirring the pot in fun on SL. :thumbup:
It gives Bob something to razz me about. :joke:
I can't really compare an Elio to a Spyder other than they both have a reverse three wheeled stance. An Elio, to me, is more of a cool commuter (ie car) vehicle. A spyder has more of of an open air motorcycle feel to it, which appeals to me more.
Regarding the the pricing question of a Spyder, my broken record whine is that my wife simply thinks it's too much money for a toy, period. :banghead: :roflblack:
On the other hand, I'm not real keen on buying a used one. Oh well, I'm blessed in many other ways and I love stirring the pot in fun on SL. :thumbup:
It gives Bob something to razz me about. :joke:
Bob Denman
New member
Tell her it's not a toy... :gaah:
It's "Wind Therapy"... :thumbup:
And you'll save money on fuel by not running the family cage around for errands... :2thumbs:
AND you'll be accepted fully into the Family of Spyderers... (
You'll learn the secret handshake!)
AND AND; there's always SpyderFest in April... :clap:
It's "Wind Therapy"... :thumbup:
And you'll save money on fuel by not running the family cage around for errands... :2thumbs:
AND you'll be accepted fully into the Family of Spyderers... (
AND AND; there's always SpyderFest in April... :clap:
Bob Denman
New member
While I'm not real keen on how you put it; I've got a story to tell...
My RT was maybe a Month old; Sonny-Boy and I took it for a spin on a Saturday. As we were refueling it, an older gentleman approached us with a BIG smile on his face, and asked us how we liked our Spyder.
This guy had the look of someone who was "in the know", so we started talking with him...
It turns out that he worked for the subcontractor who figured out the front suspension design... He said that it was a real :cus: getting ti to handle the same with the trunk empty, or full...
He also told us that BRP was REAL close to pulling the plug on numerous occasions; it took getting Bosch on board to make it possible to bring the Spyder to market. :shocked:
mxz600
Free Thinking Member
I disagree. I don't have a nanny in my sled and I don't need one in my Spyder. The Spyder would be more fun without it.
The nanny was developed to help keep the stupid people from hurting themselves.
I wish BRP offered a RS without the nanny.
I think that an inherently unsafe configuration would be one that can't stay upright on it's own.
Bob Denman
New member
They wouldn't even begin to try and market it :shocked:...
The liability issues would be overwhelming! :gaah:
But I agree with your assessment as to what "inherently unsafe" means! :thumbup:
The liability issues would be overwhelming! :gaah:
But I agree with your assessment as to what "inherently unsafe" means! :thumbup:
OldDog
New member
Tell her it's not a toy... :gaah:
It's "Wind Therapy"... :thumbup:
And you'll save money on fuel by not running the family cage around for errands... :2thumbs:
AND you'll be accepted fully into the Family of Spyderers... (You'll learn the secret handshake!)
AND AND; there's always SpyderFest in April... :clap:
You forgot the secret code ring!
Bob Denman
New member
I'm not sure that they still give them out :shocked:...
I'll send you mine!
I'll send you mine!
OldDog
New member
Maturing as a product line
I believe the Spyder line will be the benchmark for coming competition. Spyders ARE getting better. BRP is going through the same developmental pains with the Spyder as Honda did with the Wing. The Wing has been in production since 75. They have had 38+ years to refine it into the touring platform it is today. Improvements in the dealer network, standardization of service training across the board, improvement in spare parts logistics, continued improvement in engineering and manufacturing methods will bring BRP into the world class realm.
The bottom line is "It don't come cheap"
Just my rambling.
Olddog :thumbup:
I believe the Spyder line will be the benchmark for coming competition. Spyders ARE getting better. BRP is going through the same developmental pains with the Spyder as Honda did with the Wing. The Wing has been in production since 75. They have had 38+ years to refine it into the touring platform it is today. Improvements in the dealer network, standardization of service training across the board, improvement in spare parts logistics, continued improvement in engineering and manufacturing methods will bring BRP into the world class realm.
The bottom line is "It don't come cheap"
Just my rambling.
Olddog :thumbup:
Bob Denman
New member
"Good", never does!
:thumbup:
Dan_Ashley
New member
More detail needed....
What evidence do you have supporting this claim? If the claim is only opinion, what engineering and/or research credentials does the originator of the claim really have?
I'll bet that I don't get any answers to this query...:dontknow:
Dan
What evidence do you have supporting this claim? If the claim is only opinion, what engineering and/or research credentials does the originator of the claim really have?
I'll bet that I don't get any answers to this query...:dontknow:
Dan
daveinva
New member
I always enjoy the internet bravura of those who bemoan the Nanny, as if it *really* takes away from our enjoyment.
For one, anyone can "trick" the Nanny by adding the stiffer anti-sway bar, better shocks, better tires, etc. I did, and as a result my RS trips the Nanny far later than a stock RS.
But, and here's where I disagree with the complaints, I can't recall a single situation where I hit the Nanny where my dumba$$ *didn't* need it. Meaning, when the Nanny's engaged on me, it's because I was really risking matters going pear-shaped: hot in a corner, inside wheel lifting, the limits of traction approaching. Nanny kicked in, adjusts speed and traction, and returns me to a safe planted stance.
Now, if I was racing my Spyder on a track, then maybe I'd be expert enough to want to go beyond that limit.
But I'm not on a track, I'm on a public road. And while I ride as spiritedly as any of the most spirited riders here (I guarantee that-- come ride with me, we'll have fun!), I still don't want to tempt fate on the Spyder.
The design of any trike is INHERENTLY unstable in extreme cornering situations. A reverse trike is better than a forward trike, but it's *still* a trike. The BRP engineers discovered that for themselves, and realized that at real-world cornering speeds, they could apply technology to help safeguard against this instability... and, as a result, make the Spyder BETTER performing than other trike.
People who believe the Nanny limits the Spyder's performance have it all wrong-- without the Nanny, you wouldn't be able to push the Spyder as far as you do! Ask anyone whose ridden a conventional forward trike how much "fun" it is not having traction and stability control in the twisties, and compare that experience to the Spyder.
Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:
For one, anyone can "trick" the Nanny by adding the stiffer anti-sway bar, better shocks, better tires, etc. I did, and as a result my RS trips the Nanny far later than a stock RS.
But, and here's where I disagree with the complaints, I can't recall a single situation where I hit the Nanny where my dumba$$ *didn't* need it. Meaning, when the Nanny's engaged on me, it's because I was really risking matters going pear-shaped: hot in a corner, inside wheel lifting, the limits of traction approaching. Nanny kicked in, adjusts speed and traction, and returns me to a safe planted stance.
Now, if I was racing my Spyder on a track, then maybe I'd be expert enough to want to go beyond that limit.
But I'm not on a track, I'm on a public road. And while I ride as spiritedly as any of the most spirited riders here (I guarantee that-- come ride with me, we'll have fun!), I still don't want to tempt fate on the Spyder.
The design of any trike is INHERENTLY unstable in extreme cornering situations. A reverse trike is better than a forward trike, but it's *still* a trike. The BRP engineers discovered that for themselves, and realized that at real-world cornering speeds, they could apply technology to help safeguard against this instability... and, as a result, make the Spyder BETTER performing than other trike.
People who believe the Nanny limits the Spyder's performance have it all wrong-- without the Nanny, you wouldn't be able to push the Spyder as far as you do! Ask anyone whose ridden a conventional forward trike how much "fun" it is not having traction and stability control in the twisties, and compare that experience to the Spyder.
Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:
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