spyder is at Dynojet for power commander testing

[aka1004]

Thanks for the updates. So they're using your stock O2 sensor for it to read and adjust things-- or do they have their own sensors?

I'm becoming less thrilled with the JB every day.... had stumble when passing again today...JB cutting out in between modes--- getting it confused again.

I'm considering going back to just running higher fuel pressure and selling the JB. Some things are just better done mechanically than electronically.

wideband 2 has ability to set or adjust afr in closed loop, this is the part that was most important.


i had really good result from that ebay :cus: but it did use alot of gas.


so hold on and wait, way i see it, it will be worth the wait for pc or jbpro.

don't buy juicebox out of frustration

 

[aka1004]

Thanks for the updates. So they're using your stock O2 sensor for it to read and adjust things-- or do they have their own sensors?

I'm becoming less thrilled with the JB every day.... had stumble when passing again today...JB cutting out in between modes--- getting it confused again.

I'm considering going back to just running higher fuel pressure and selling the JB. Some things are just better done mechanically than electronically.

wideband2 has it's own o2 sensor and more accurate sensor at that and it is adjustable

 

[Firefly]

wideband 2 has ability to set or adjust afr in closed loop, this is the part that was most important.


i had really good result from that ebay :cus: but it did use alot of gas.


so hold on and wait, way i see it, it will be worth the wait for pc or jbpro.

don't buy juicebox out of frustration

I've been running a JB for a month or so now... doesn't run as good as just cranking up my fuel pressure... but I do get better MPG now.

 

[SpyderWolf]

so hold on and wait, way i see it, it will be worth the wait for pc or jbpro.

don't buy juicebox out of frustration

I think that is some good advice as well. I was tempted to buy just a regular JB, but then thought about it some more and did not pull the trigger. I figure since I have found replacement stock air filters for less than $10 each, I can just continue switching them out for a while until all of the bugs are worked out of the systems. Then I will probably pony up and go with one of them.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. :dontknow:

 

[aka1004]

warning: this can get loooooong

first of all, powercommander is ready for production and will go on production soon, like 2 weeks but bad news is spyder can not be calibrated for speed and gear. i thought it was because of mine is se5 but it's because spyder's speed sensor does not send out proper signal for power commander.
i am still learning things about pc and set up i have so let's see if i can make things a little clear on different set up.

1. power commander only
this will be basically same as juicebox pro but with expandability down the line if you decide to do so.(autotune, wideband 2 etc.) and you will also get a o2 sensor with selective afr for closed loop(not on jb pro. i was only told it's DIFFERENT).
i found out today that pc has function that will help with that hesitation i sometimes get when i am taking off from standing still but i don't know if jb pro has that function.

2. power commander + autotune
what's above plus self-tuning while ryding with pre-set afr at range of rpm, lcd not required but cool.

3. power commander + wideband2
all of the above including self-tuning plus better sensor and adjustable afr for closed loop from the lcd. lcd IS required for this purpose.

i swung by today to ask some questions and spent half of day testing the settings on the power commander. when i first went to dynojet, i was told that i just set autotune's pre-set afr and i am done was NOT completely true.

i can get rid of popping when decel by adding fuel at strategic rpm/throttle position. i take note of at what rpm and what percentage of throttle position popping happens and hook up my laptop and add little fuel at that range and popping is gone. this gets rid of leanness/popping without richening the whole clump of range. i am also trying different fuel table at different rpm/throttle position to get more out of spyder. spyder is running super but burning too much fuel so i am gonna have to find a good medium and have few different maps stored on lcd for performance to long freeway ryde and something in between.

accel-pump, i do not know a whole lot about this but this was supposed to help with hesitation when i take off from standing still by raising the delta throttle(no idea) and rev.(again no idea) and by adding little bit of fuel.
i set it today and hesitation has not happen so far so it's all good but we shall see:dontknow:
i was idling a bit lean when hesitation happens and i richen the idle a bit so that should have helped with hesitation also.

 

[SethO]

So what would be the difference between the JB pro and the PC? besides the laptop adjustment and full price with both add'ons?

Kind of a real let down. No real speed benifit then? getting it to dump more fuel on the top so you get 130mph instead of 120 I mean.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Thanks for the update. It sounds like they are getting a lot closer, but neither the PC or JB Pro is sounding like they will be plug and play right now. Quite a bit of tweaking, but at least you still have Dynojet to help you get yours tuned correctly. I wish you continued success with it.

 

[Firefly]

So the JB-pro is for sure made by Power Commander then? I was told the standard JB is made by Dobeck Performance (ex-cofounder of Dynojet/PC).

It's sounding like the auto-tune isn't as great as I thought it would be--- still a lot of tweaking by the user.

 

[aka1004]

yes the jb pro is made by dynojet. it is not going to be a carbon copy of power commander thou and isn't it a job of any fuel management product to dump more fuel, at the right spot of course. when i first got pc in my spyder, the thing that was most noticeable was better throttle response.

power commander can be a plug and play if you download a map and don't mess with it, especially if you get autotune or wideband2.
i like tweaking and any tweaking i do right now is on my own so it's a trial and error type of deal. my spyder did not have any popping until i added a whole lot of fuel to entire spectrum of rpm/throttle position. when you add that much fuel and 0 and 2 % thottle gets none, you are going to get popping at decel.

spyder was running good except for the lean idle and adding just a touch of fuel at lower rpm solved that but did i quit? NOPE. I added whole lot of fuel to other bands of rpm/throttle to see what happens. i got too much fuel now across the board so i will try remapping today.

even before all this, acceleration was very good with decent mpg, especially the 3rd gear acceleration. 1st and 2nd, i really don't have time to say wow because spyder redlines so quick and i am still late on shifting as i just can not shift fast enough, YET. 1st and 2nd is just a blur. in 3rd, i get a little longer but "hold on to your handlebar" kinda acceleration. did i squeeze a litttle more out by adding fuel? in some area but not all. i now have an option to delete added fuel and let wb2 handle it or more tweaking to get unnecessary fuel out. i think more tweaking.

i think if you don't want to tweak, getting a lcd probably is not a good investment. pc and autotune and "set it and forget it".:thumbup:

one advantage jb pro has is your final investment will be lower. jb pro may not be as tweakable and expandable but that can work in their favor. simpler, on the unit adjustment may work better for some.

i don't owe dynojet anything and don't have to make it look like i LOVE pc. i can only give my opinion with my experience with it. i did have to pay for lcd, with a big discount, but i am so glad i got it. after seeing exactly what's going on with fuel system in spyder, it would be tough to go back to being half blind.

 

[Firefly]

Excessive decel popping is usually a sign of a LEAN condition.

I think I'll just increase my fuel pressure a little more and call it good. JB is a bit too flaky to be reliable IMO. For sure recommend running the O2 mod if you're going to run the standard JB unit.

 

[DietitianBill]

Will pc have a wide arrange of maps? For instance the jb pro only has about 4 maps available all with their exhaust. I have a Leo Vince and would like to add Ken's performance air filter system but i'd like to have a map that would at least give me a good starting point. What's your opinion?

 

[aka1004]

Will pc have a wide arrange of maps? For instance the jb pro only has about 4 maps available all with their exhaust. I have a Leo Vince and would like to add Ken's performance air filter system but i'd like to have a map that would at least give me a good starting point. What's your opinion?

the map dynojet gave me was with two bros single and ken's filter so that should be a good starting point but funny thing is ken's filter did not make much of difference on dyno and anyone with ken's filter can tell you it does make a big difference in real life.:dontknow: i have a map saved with autotune made adjustment while i ryde so may be that will work better for you if you get the race air.
i had leo vince before the two bros and it seems two bros is a bit more free-er flowing but not by much.

 

[aka1004]

Excessive decel popping is usually a sign of a LEAN condition.

I think I'll just increase my fuel pressure a little more and call it good. JB is a bit too flaky to be reliable IMO. For sure recommend running the O2 mod if you're going to run the standard JB unit.

little fuel takes care of the popping.:thumbup:
if i already had fuel pressure mod, it would not be easy to justify the cost of complete pc setup neither.
i am going to play with it a little see if i can get better mpg with more performance. if not, i can always go back to dynojet's original map. i was getting good mpg with real good performance. i understand a bit more how accel-pump works now so that would help with taking off from the line or sudden acceleration also. i mapped a freeway map to save on fuel on a long run with high afr at range of rpm/throttle where i typically cruise at so that should help but we will find out this weekend when i go to palm springs but i am going to run around today trying different fuel map so stay tuned.

 

[DietitianBill]

Thanks AKA. Once the pc becomes available i'll buy it and Ken's filter at the same time. I'll bother you then for that map. Thanks again for your evaluation of the pc.

 

[Firefly]

little fuel takes care of the popping.:thumbup:
if i already had fuel pressure mod, it would not be easy to justify the cost of complete pc setup neither.
i am going to play with it a little see if i can get better mpg with more performance. if not, i can always go back to dynojet's original map. i was getting good mpg with real good performance. i understand a bit more how accel-pump works now so that would help with taking off from the line or sudden acceleration also. i mapped a freeway map to save on fuel on a long run with high afr at range of rpm/throttle where i typically cruise at so that should help but we will find out this weekend when i go to palm springs but i am going to run around today trying different fuel map so stay tuned.

Are you talking about Ken's drop-in filter or the Race air intake???

Big difference between these two mods.

 

[aka1004]

Are you talking about Ken's drop-in filter or the Race air intake???

Big difference between these two mods.

Race air, of course. You didn't think I would go thru all this with stock airbox?

 

[SpyderWolf]

Thanks again for your honest feedback, and posting your testing results as well. I am sure I will do something some day, just not sure which direction I am going to go in yet. For now I am happy to sit on the sidelines and watch all of you test the new products. :thumbup:

 

[aka1004]

Thanks AKA. Once the pc becomes available i'll buy it and Ken's filter at the same time. I'll bother you then for that map. Thanks again for your evaluation of the pc.

i think i've been going at this wrong. i added a lot of fuel and was waiting for wb2 to trim it but i was burning too much fuel and i never liked the map dynojet has made me so tried a approach from the opposite end.
i threw out the dynojet's map and set the fuel very low across the board except for high rpm/throttle(but still lower than what i had before) only adding 2% on low throttle and up to 6% on high throttle and mpg came back quite a bit without sacrificing performance much. i think i've been cruising with very high fuel thus the low mpg. i paid closer attention to what throttle position i am at also when i am accelerating at different speed and added just a tad more and surprisingly, i do not use more than 40-50% throttle and typical acceleration is around 15-20%.
i think one reason for that is i live in big city and there aren't whole lot of room for full throttle acceleration and my spyder has so much power in mid range i really don't feel the need to open it up that much. plus without better suspension i really can not put all the power to the pavement so i don't do much full throttle acceleration except on 3rd gear when i getting on the freeway (upper 3rd gear acceleration is especially sensational)
i lost just a little bit on top end but will be gradually adding fuel to make it feel just right without dumping fuel and wb2 is making little adjustment on lower end so if spyder needs more fuel at certain point it will get added.

with new lower fuel table i cruise with less fuel but i can still punch it and fly by slow poke cage drivers.

 

[aka1004]

it seems it was user error, again, why my spyder has been burning so much fuel.pps:
i been screwing around with power commander, blind basically and my mpg have slid down to like 18 and performance dwindled... i was burning more fuel but getting worse ooomph. original map that dynojet made me was good but i thought that spyder could do a little more, and thinking was my downfall.
i was looking thru maps i wrote and realized there was another back up map i did not know it was there.
it was a new map that dynojet made when they replaced the autotune with wideband2. when dynojet made first one i know they were concerned about burning too much fuel and therefore made it bit tight but when they made this one they opened it up a little more. they know i would rather have more performance than mpg.

i don't know why i thought i knew more than dynojet...pps:
i was basically dumping fuel all over place where it did not need and actually starving the engine where it did need fuel. wb2 can only do so much...

performance is back if not better with good mpg and two bros sounds good again with low toned brrrrrroom spyder is very happy again.
two bros slip on gets this bad high pitch tone when spyder is running lean.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Glad to hear you were able to sort out what the issue was with burning too much fuel. It is also interesting to note that you now realize the exhaust sounds different when you are running lean versus running rich. I am not sure my ears would be tuned in enough to hear that difference. :thumbup: