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Sonic Tension Question.
- Thread starter h0gr1der
- Start date
h0gr1der
New member
Mr. Cruzr Joe,
Possibly the wrong thread? I learning about sonic testing the belt tension here.
Cruzr Joe
New member
Sorry first line said out of warranty limbo and i guess i misunderstood what you meant.
Cruzr Joe
Spyderlass
New member
Ms Spyderlass has an RTL.
You can test the frequency of belt vibration easily enough if you have an Android device. Go to the Google play store and download an app for tuning an instrument, I use one called... Wait for it... Instrument tuner. I then use the guitar tuner function to listen to my belt and it gives a reading of the frequency in Hz when I pluck the belt. Surroundings need to be quiet because the belt isn't loud. If you have difficulty getting your device to hear the belt, pluck it and sing the frequency you are hearing and your device should hear that - Bob's yer uncle, it works for me!
Yeh, sing to your bike.
You can test the frequency of belt vibration easily enough if you have an Android device. Go to the Google play store and download an app for tuning an instrument, I use one called... Wait for it... Instrument tuner. I then use the guitar tuner function to listen to my belt and it gives a reading of the frequency in Hz when I pluck the belt. Surroundings need to be quiet because the belt isn't loud. If you have difficulty getting your device to hear the belt, pluck it and sing the frequency you are hearing and your device should hear that - Bob's yer uncle, it works for me!
Yeh, sing to your bike.
BoilerAnimal
New member
You've obviously never heard me sing! You're lucky. If I sang to my Spyder, it would leave the garage for parts unknown by itself!!!:joke:
Last edited:
h0gr1der
New member
Ms Spyderlass has an RTL.
You can test the frequency of belt vibration easily enough if you have an Android device. Go to the Google play store and download an app for tuning an instrument, I use one called... Wait for it... Instrument tuner. I then use the guitar tuner function to listen to my belt and it gives a reading of the frequency in Hz when I pluck the belt. Surroundings need to be quiet because the belt isn't loud. If you have difficulty getting your device to hear the belt, pluck it and sing the frequency you are hearing and your device should hear that - Bob's yer uncle, it works for me!
Yeh, sing to your bike.
Ms Spyderlass,
I'm with Boileranimal. I reckon the 3 parameters that have to be input into the Gates unit is so that it can make the frequency to force conversion. I fear that if I tried to croak a tune I may irreparably scar the cylinders or cause the bearings to seize. Yes, it's that bad. But I do sound good drunk in the shower!
So I'm guessing the 950 Hz was supposed to read 950 Newtons, which is still way above the TSB from 2015 and the new specs in the service manual specifications section. Why do dealers continue to do this?
h0gr1der
New member
Mr. Cruzr Joe,
My bad, I missed a word. Should have read warranty repair limbo. Please accept my apology for not being as concise as normal. The good thing is at all times I know what I mean, even if the rest of the world isn't in sync!:helpsmilie:
Cruzr Joe
New member
h0gr1der
New member
All,Many thanks to Mr EdMat for posting the link to the Gates Sonic Tester. Looks like we should be setting our belts in the 28-30 hz range.
https://assets.gates.com/content/da...TensionMeter_Manual_Mar2018_HIRES_NOBLEED.pdf
In that manual I found the formula to convert Hz to Newtons. I built a spreadsheet, but can't post it here, so I'll improvise.
Please verify my math, I'm can be a dumb-ass with math!
Formula: T = 4 x M x W x S2 x f 2 x 10-9
Where:
T = Belt span tension (Newtons)
M* = Belt mass constant (g/m)
W = Belt width (mm) or number of belt strands
S = Length of the span to be measured (mm)
f = Natural frequency of the belt (Hz)
The below is hacked from my spreadsheet, and uses Frequency to solve for tension;
The first 3 constants are from the service manual on setting tension with the sonic meter. My RTL has a 353mm sprocket.
Mass g/m 8.4
Width mm/R 28
Span mm 980 960400 (Span squared)
Frequency 28 784 (Frequency Squared)
Tension N 708.4 (Formula =4 x 8.4 x 28 x 960400 x 784 x 0.000000001)
Tension Lb 159.2 (Formula =Newtons*0.2248089)
https://assets.gates.com/content/da...TensionMeter_Manual_Mar2018_HIRES_NOBLEED.pdf
In that manual I found the formula to convert Hz to Newtons. I built a spreadsheet, but can't post it here, so I'll improvise.
Please verify my math, I'm can be a dumb-ass with math!
Formula: T = 4 x M x W x S2 x f 2 x 10-9
Where:
T = Belt span tension (Newtons)
M* = Belt mass constant (g/m)
W = Belt width (mm) or number of belt strands
S = Length of the span to be measured (mm)
f = Natural frequency of the belt (Hz)
The below is hacked from my spreadsheet, and uses Frequency to solve for tension;
The first 3 constants are from the service manual on setting tension with the sonic meter. My RTL has a 353mm sprocket.
Mass g/m 8.4
Width mm/R 28
Span mm 980 960400 (Span squared)
Frequency 28 784 (Frequency Squared)
Tension N 708.4 (Formula =4 x 8.4 x 28 x 960400 x 784 x 0.000000001)
Tension Lb 159.2 (Formula =Newtons*0.2248089)
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
Found this and thought you would like to see it.
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...lt-tension-APP-for-Iphone-Ipad-and-Ipod-touch
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...lt-tension-APP-for-Iphone-Ipad-and-Ipod-touch
h0gr1der
New member
Mr Jeriatric,
You're the man! My search MoJo must be lacking, that is exactly what I was looking for. The tech left my belt "at the lower end" at 950 Hz! Good lord, that thing must be tight!
I spent all day yesterday going over the bike, lowering the tension back to a reasonable number and aligning the wheel. The tech is working with outdated manuals or information, his specs for lowest at 200 lbs (what I found it at) is the old 1050N one. Vibrated like crazy. I figured with the formula provided by Mr EdMat that for the true lower end of around 160 lbs we'd be in the 28 Hz range, so the tech writing 950 Hz must be a typo of 950N.
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
All credit goes to Doc Riverside & Roger. I just got lucky and stumbled across their work.
PinkRosePetal
New member
Howdya like to report back re. the vibration at that low belt frequency?
h0gr1der
New member
I spent yesterday adjusting the belt and pulling the plastic off looking for broke tabs after the service. I set the belt tension at about 150 on the ground with a Krikit II. Just put about 50 miles of interstate at various speeds, amazingly, no vibration.
The whole question stemmed from the service department over tightening my belt to the old spec, and then reporting that they left it at 950 Hz. I had to understand the Hz/Force correlation before I can provide them constructive criticism. 950 Hz would be 815449 Newtons. If they typo'd and meant 950 Newtons, that's still way above the new spec.
PinkRosePetal
New member
Ta. :thumbup:
greybeard
New member
when the tec changed my front belt pulley I asked him to not make it so tight. He doesn't know anything about a cricket, but said the sonic reading was supposed to be 700 plus or minus. He told me he set it at 400, when I checked with the cricket it was 210 lbs. 2000 miles ago he put a new rear tire on and left the belt tight as a banjo string. Was this the reason the front pulley destroyed itself?
h0gr1der
New member
I'm not sure. I've been in communication with someone who uses a sonic tester, and his is set to return Newtons. 700 Newtons is around 157 Lbs of Krikit force, and if taken with wheel off the ground (as the dealerships do) may very well result in tensions close to 180-200 lbs. 400 Newtons is 89 Lbs, and is likely to result in about 120-130 Lbs with the wheel on the ground.
After all the experimentation I've done regarding belt vibrations, I'm firmly in the less is better camp, as long as it doesn't cause the belt to ride up and damage the teeth. I know I've read the F3 models have more pulley failures, the RT's less so. F3's run less tension than RT's, but also have shorter belts. Can't say one way or the other. Could be riding style, F3's are sportier, RT's are cruisers. May be riding style.
trikermutha
New member
OK..what is the new pec for the 1330 RT for tension on the belt? I see all kinds of numbers on this thread not sure what the real newton number is suppose to be :gaah:
I know there was a bulletin posted awhile back.
I know there was a bulletin posted awhile back.
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
trikermutha
New member
That is showing the original recommended spec, needed the new recommneded bulletin tension spec . This would be for the 2014 Models on up. (1050N plus or minus is the book spec. )
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