Something Is Rotten in the Spyder engine

[bone crusher]

There are lots of mod's between LED's and Turbo: where is the official (in writing)demarcation line? Green filter? Performance air intake? Juice Box?

Hah...I think it's easy to make a determination that an LED light won't destroy your engine whereas a turbo might just do that....

Regardless, this is why manufacturers have their fine print...they have to protect themselves somehow...

I wonder if they'll ever have their own turbo or supercharged spyder sooner or later...

 

[Bob Denman]

They're a great company that sells high-quality components... But they're still gonna say whatever they can to get you to buy!! :shocked:
The only thing that can sell a bad product is good marketing... In this case, and in defense of Aerocharger; Maybe it wasn't their product but the application that was being attempted??? :dontknow:

 

[Firefly]

Although a turbo addition is a fairly big change, does ANYONE know ( facts only) what modifications void the warranty on our Spyders? I have never seen anything in print from BRP officials as to what we can/can not do. JB Pro's, Power Commanders, Green filters, Evoluzion intakes, different than BRP oil usage, 02 Modifiers, exhaust changes? Just curious in case I have issues later down the line.

You won't see anything specific listed on warranties like this. Fact of the matter is that they cannot just 'void' a warranty because of a 3rd party add-on - we have specific laws in the USA about this--- Now--- that being said---- if the 3rd party modification is directly related to the failure---- then they very well may void coverage of that damage. It's on a case by case situation.

Can they void an engine warranty because you added HID's ??? NO.
Could they void the warranty on the ECU or other electronics for adding HID's ??? YES

Would using a green filter or Kewlmetal intake void engine warranty? Doubtful but possible.

Would I expect them to cover my engine even if I'm using my Evo intake and HMF pipe --- yes-- for the most part... but a Turbo is really a different beast as it interacts mechanically (moving parts) with the Spyder-- something my intake and exhaust do not do. Now if they could show one of my mods did cause the damage and explain how it did-- okay--

With a turbo I don't think I'd even try to have them cover it under warranty.

As far as covering due to low oil--- depends on what caused the oil to be low. If a defect in the factory system, drain plug, oil sensor, etc. was found to be the cause of leaking 3 quarts in a short period of time--- then yes-- they should cover it.

I have worn splines on my main shaft. Do I expect them to cover it? YES - because they had belt tension too high for first 1.5 years. I put new sprocket on at my cost -- didn't worry about a $50 part-- but the main shaft is much more expensive to have fixed. Now-- if I had run a 3rd party sprocket and then had shaft spline wear---- I would expect they may NOT cover it.

The damage has to occur first before determining what is and is not going to be covered.

 

[docdoru]

And now, the question: what's the difference between a turbo and a naturally aspirated Rotaxengine piston melt down? opcorn:

 

[ARtraveler]

I have been reading this thread with interest. I'm not mechanically inclined when it comes to engines, turbos and such--so will stay out of the fine points on that.

When I read the initial posting yesterday--there were no replies yet--and I did not want to be the first.

Its very obvious that you are a revered person on S/L. You have done a lot to promote Spyder and have performance tested your vehicles to the max.

I agree with those that say overdoing it can shorten the life of an engine. I believe they overhaul race vehicles after every race--and some of them are $1,000,000 items.

IMO, Spyder was not concieved to be a racing machine--although some have used them for that purpose.

I hope you get your problems solved to your satisfaction.

 

[Firefly]

And now, the question: what's the difference between a turbo and a naturally aspirated Rotaxengine piston melt down? opcorn:

One gets covered under warranty and the other doesn't? :shocked::joke:

 

[docdoru]

Its very obvious that you are a revered person on S/L. You have done a lot to promote Spyder and have performance tested your vehicles to the max.

I am nothing but a Spyder owner concerned about the roadster feasibility. :thumbup:

 

[bjt]

IMO, a warranty is in place to cover the customer from a bad part or design flaw. Anytime you add something other than stock, the potential is there to damage an otherwise perfectly good piece of equipment. Thats why manufacturers aren't willing to warranty things with a bunch of aftermarket parts. The person has taken a potentially long lasting machine (or at least out of the warranty period) and put something on it that can reduce the life of the machine. The same goes for doing maintenance on your own. The warranty is based on an expected level of competence and an untrained mechanic / owner may or may not have the skills to do the work.

 

[NancysToy]

And now, the question: what's the difference between a turbo and a naturally aspirated Rotaxengine piston melt down?

There can be a lot of difference. The results are the same, but the root causes can be far apart. Insufficient fuel system capacity, a non-adjustable ignition/fuel system, and a limited heat capacity are just a few of the engineering reasons that the same engine can survive naturally aspirated, but may die if it is blown...especially under long, full-throttle operation. Without knowing exactly how close the stock engine operates to these engineered design limitations, nobody can predict the effects of the added needs or load. I doubt anyone outside of the factory is intimate enough with the design calculations to say with any certainty what will happen when you add more oomph. Back in the old days, with the nitro motors, we always figured you had to blown up a few along the way to find out just what you could, and couldn't do. Engines always tell you about their limitations...but they do it at the funeral.

 

[docdoru]

I appreciate the replies and comments, both sincere and BRP damaged control generated. :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

:yikes: I guess I'd say the difference is if they knew that you had a "hairdryer" on top of the engine... They of course would need to find the "cause of the meltdown, so give them a leak in the intake system somewhere that's due to a busted part that they supplied...

NOT that I'm suggesting that anybody do any lying here... :shocked:

 

[MouthPiece]

Point/Couterpoint

Most, if not all, responses have merit. However, I'm not sure I would kill the goose that layed the golden egg. Doc has been a tremendous ambassador for all of "spyderdom". Perhaps some kind of give and take would have been not only appropriate, but certainly beneficial to all concerned?

Chris

 

[docdoru]

Most, if not all, responses have merit. However, I'm not sure I would kill the goose that layed the golden egg. Doc has been a tremendous ambassador for all of "spyderdom". Perhaps some kind of give and take would have been not only appropriate, but certainly beneficial to all concerned?

Chris,
Thank you but no thank you. The moment I'll accept any favors (financials and/or preferred service) from BRP means I'll lost integrity and spine in front of the Spyder community and myself. My Spyder and her mileage are not for sale. Neither am I.

 

[boborgera]

I appreciate the replies and comments, both sincere and BRP damaged control generated. :thumbup:

Careful, you don't want to end up on the ignore list.:roflblack:

 

[SpydeRider2010]

anytime you modify the input... the output will change; and it'll change what is in the middle also.

the question to ask is... can you REALLY afford the end result? if it's more than you are currently willing to absorb... ya need to leave well enough... A LONE.

otherwise... have the winning lottery ticket and don't worry about it.

and working for one of the Big Three auto makers... BRP is NO different.

if you change it... and it screws up, as a result. get a knife and fork. because... you just ate it. companies are no longer willing to eat a bad meal... that you cooked.

any way they can cut costs... they will !!!

recently... our manufacturer voided someone's basic engine warranty, due to going 9,200 miles between oil changes; when a "knocking noise" developed in the engine. the customer couldn't provide proof of oil changes; and oil pick-up tubes DO NOT pick-up sludge in an oil pan. go... figure...

 

[bill pitman]

Good one, Bob !!


Bill

 

[bone crusher]

anytime you modify the input... the output will change; and it'll change what is in the middle also.

the question to ask is... can you REALLY afford the end result? if it's more than you are currently willing to absorb... ya need to leave well enough... A LONE.

otherwise... have the winning lottery ticket and don't worry about it.

and working for one of the Big Three auto makers... BRP is NO different.

if you change it... and it screws up, as a result. get a knife and fork. because... you just ate it. companies are no longer willing to eat a bad meal... that you cooked.

any way they can cut costs... they will !!!

recently... our manufacturer voided someone's basic engine warranty, due to going 9,200 miles between oil changes; when a "knocking noise" developed in the engine. the customer couldn't provide proof of oil changes; and oil pick-up tubes DO NOT pick-up sludge in an oil pan. go... figure...

Agree but all this talk about food and cooking has made me hungry! :shocked:

 

[spydee owner]

rotax engine

The spyder engine is a well proven powerplant (many years in the Aprillia motorcycle). Major engine mods and driving an engine hard, and it"s BRP's fault because ??? When you start turboing and other crazy s:cus:t, you need a purpose built engine.

 

[effgjamis]

The spyder engine is a well proven powerplant (many years in the Aprillia motorcycle). Major engine mods and driving an engine hard, and it"s BRP's fault because ??? When you start turboing and other crazy s:cus:t, you need a purpose built engine.

I am not sure I understand your point..

Doc and the Spyderdom relationship is most outstanding in my book.

I just have a bungie cord that just keeps on working.

 

[docdoru]

The spyder engine is a well proven powerplant (many years in the Aprillia motorcycle). Major engine mods and driving an engine hard, and it"s BRP's fault because ??? When you start turboing and other crazy s:cus:t, you need a purpose built engine.

Did you tell the same think for the failed "power plant" non-turbo Spyders?