Dudley
New member
A "fix" would be to give us back the old mapping.
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Software Update Poll- Please vote
- Thread starter Lamonster
- Start date
A "fix" would be to give us back the old mapping.
DragonSpyder
New member
If the problem is truly a leaner mapping why would those of us that have the o2 modifier experience the problem? I thought the modifier bypassed the mapping of the idle circuit.
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
The problem is not leaner mapping. The problem is most likely the purge valve is staying open too long or is getting stuck. If you pinch off the hose going to the purge valve that will tell you if that's it.
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
Since this was a recall done in agreement with NHTSA, done to address a possible safety issue, I'm sure BRP's lawyers and the government watchdogs would not be willing to remove it after it was installed. BRP's problem was doing a variety of updates in one package. Can't separate the safety stuff from the miscellaneous "improvements".
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
I just found out you can but it's not recommended. I should have some more information tomorrow.
SpyderRider2492
New member
Runs hot now
My spyder was running good anyway, however since the upgrade it runs hotter, and extra bar and that concerns me.
My spyder was running good anyway, however since the upgrade it runs hotter, and extra bar and that concerns me.
W
widowmaker2011
Guest
The poll is a great idea, but not knowing specifics on each spyder as far as mods prior won't give it an completely accurate sampling, but 42% of us are running worse so it appears its not just a couple spyders here and there.
Couple things-
1) The remap that has leaned out the steering has NOTHING to do with the recall ,it was just released in conjunction with the steering recall.. Think of it as a bundle. I will let Lamont update you on the ability to undue this when as we are most likely getting the same info and I do not want to hijack his post. The word I have is that undoing may be available at some point and / or they will release a subsequent patch.
2) As for the 02 modifier , there are several opinions on this right now-, but Fact are facts , we know the new mapping leaned us out, really affecting spyders that were already lean that have more air flow via exhaust or intake mods.. Those of you with juice boxes for the most part have been able to get rich enough to be fine. I am NOT speaking for Ken , but Kens 02 sensor is a static piece (ie it tricks the computer into thinking the exhaust flow is lean and in turn the ecm richens up the mixture to compensate) His piece was designed based on the original fuel map and when I say it is static, it does not have the ability to compensate for changes to the fuel map. So in laymans terms if it were richening up the fuel map by say 15% , it STILL does its job , it richens it up 15%. BUT its richening it up from a much leaner starting point and in theory will not deliver as much fuel as before because the starting point is leaner.
Couple things-
1) The remap that has leaned out the steering has NOTHING to do with the recall ,it was just released in conjunction with the steering recall.. Think of it as a bundle. I will let Lamont update you on the ability to undue this when as we are most likely getting the same info and I do not want to hijack his post. The word I have is that undoing may be available at some point and / or they will release a subsequent patch.
2) As for the 02 modifier , there are several opinions on this right now-, but Fact are facts , we know the new mapping leaned us out, really affecting spyders that were already lean that have more air flow via exhaust or intake mods.. Those of you with juice boxes for the most part have been able to get rich enough to be fine. I am NOT speaking for Ken , but Kens 02 sensor is a static piece (ie it tricks the computer into thinking the exhaust flow is lean and in turn the ecm richens up the mixture to compensate) His piece was designed based on the original fuel map and when I say it is static, it does not have the ability to compensate for changes to the fuel map. So in laymans terms if it were richening up the fuel map by say 15% , it STILL does its job , it richens it up 15%. BUT its richening it up from a much leaner starting point and in theory will not deliver as much fuel as before because the starting point is leaner.
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fred
New member
Lamont... you wrote"If you pinch off the hose going to the purge valve that will tell you if that's it."
the purge valve is found on the hose from the engine to the evap cannister ... right ?
if this is the case... my hose was clamped by the dealer upon advice from BRP
is changing the purge valve the fix ?
dealer and BRP still have no answers for me today.. still doing a lot of head scratching .. why have they not picked up on this ?
has anyone else clamped this hose or had it clamped by the dealer ?
the Spyder is not hesitating any more.. although the engine still seems stressed thru the rpm range
the purge valve is found on the hose from the engine to the evap cannister ... right ?
if this is the case... my hose was clamped by the dealer upon advice from BRP
is changing the purge valve the fix ?
dealer and BRP still have no answers for me today.. still doing a lot of head scratching .. why have they not picked up on this ?
has anyone else clamped this hose or had it clamped by the dealer ?
the Spyder is not hesitating any more.. although the engine still seems stressed thru the rpm range
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
Changing the purge valve should fix the problem. A non BRP recommended fix would be to remove the evap can and plug off the purge valve. BRP will not and can not tell you to do that but that's what I did.
NEXUS
Member
I totally agree with Lamonster,
Anybody who has this problem after DPS download needs to contact your dealer and call the number
1-866-767-0707 and explained to them the problem.
Just got off the phone with a BRP representative and he explained to me this is the first he heard of it.
The more people that complain about this the sooner they can put together and download a patch that the dealer
can download to fix this problem.
NEXUS
jwfranklin
New member
I just got off the phone with BRP. the guy I talked with seemed to not know what I was talking about, and said they had no complaints on the updated. To make a long story short all I got was the run-around, when I told him about all the bad running posts on Spyderlovers, Said again he had heard of no complaints, and they wouldn't pay any attention to this anyway. Needless to say I lost my cool. I told him that I had spent my hard earned money on a machine that was barely driveable, and wanted to know what he could do for me. He seemed to care less. All he could suggest was to take it back to dealer. My question does BRP even know what is going on. I got the impression if it was reported by a dealer, it wasn't reported. I am now a very very UNHAPPY Spyder owner. and I was thinking about purchasing another.
Wayne
Wayne
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BajaRon
Well-known member
It is a shame this isn't going more smoothly.
Peacing together what seems to be coming from BRP I'd say widowmaker2011 makes a lot of sense. At least in regards to Ken's static O2 sensor as opposed the the JB, which is adjustable.
Who would have guessed BRP would be changing the fuel map?
I does not sound like BRP has leaned out the entire map. Sounds like the main area of change is in the cruise function. That is where you're going to get a mileage improvment.
If Lamont's info about the purge valve staying open too long or sticking open is correct, that would definitely play havoc with the entire system and give a very lean mix. At least that is an easy possiblity to confirm or eliminate by blocking or pinching off the purge hose.
I rode again today. I've got 120+ on the update and I am sure my Spyder is running better and steering better than before the update. I wish everyone could say the same.
Peacing together what seems to be coming from BRP I'd say widowmaker2011 makes a lot of sense. At least in regards to Ken's static O2 sensor as opposed the the JB, which is adjustable.
Who would have guessed BRP would be changing the fuel map?
I does not sound like BRP has leaned out the entire map. Sounds like the main area of change is in the cruise function. That is where you're going to get a mileage improvment.
If Lamont's info about the purge valve staying open too long or sticking open is correct, that would definitely play havoc with the entire system and give a very lean mix. At least that is an easy possiblity to confirm or eliminate by blocking or pinching off the purge hose.
I rode again today. I've got 120+ on the update and I am sure my Spyder is running better and steering better than before the update. I wish everyone could say the same.
Don in E Texas
New member
I've already mentioned that my bike is really horrible to ride now after the "fix". (I did the high dollar fuel route - 3 tanks full - no difference) I rode to the dealer this morning to let him know about it -- I've put about 500 miles after the 'fix' - bike has no mod's (08 SE5). Dealer said to ride their demo bike and see how it performs. I had ridden it before and it is one, sweet, machine!!! After just a few blocks I could tell something has really trashed this machine!! A 09 SE5 with Hindle exhaust. Dealer agreed with me - he was not at all happy with the 'fix'.
I'm sure there will be a solution to the problem and we'll all be out there on the highway smiling again.
don
I'm sure there will be a solution to the problem and we'll all be out there on the highway smiling again.
don
So So
Like the steering, but runs rough now and gas mileage worse. I'm a worried owner of a 08 and seems like we have to always put money into the unit to make it better or to fix an issue. I love the bike and I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I'm worried about my pocket book. If the 2010 model is better and these issues corrected, I'd trade mine in for a newer model. Hope everyone don't think I'm bit----g, I ride a lot and enjoy every minute on it, but when you have to worry something small might break you down and you need to carry a fire extinguisher with you, I guess I'm a worry wart. Thanks you for all the great help you give us.
Like the steering, but runs rough now and gas mileage worse. I'm a worried owner of a 08 and seems like we have to always put money into the unit to make it better or to fix an issue. I love the bike and I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I'm worried about my pocket book. If the 2010 model is better and these issues corrected, I'd trade mine in for a newer model. Hope everyone don't think I'm bit----g, I ride a lot and enjoy every minute on it, but when you have to worry something small might break you down and you need to carry a fire extinguisher with you, I guess I'm a worry wart. Thanks you for all the great help you give us.
Dudley
New member
For what it's worth, I just sent this letter to BRP:
Just want to add my regrets and disappointment about the steering update. You guys really choked us on that one. My steering is a lot improved, but the engine running like a spastic rabbit at low RPMs in first gear is not what I brought it in for. I am a very disappointed owner, as are many others. My Spyder was almost a flawless performer until now. Apparently, you guys read a few posts about people wanting better gas mileage and threw that in for a bonus without doing enough testing in the field. Anyone spending that much money on a great machine, then gripes about the gas mileage, should never have bought a Spyder. If getting 3-4 more MPG is that important, sell it.
We completed a 13,624 mile journey last Wednesday. I had the update done in Worthington, MN. Ran really well until about 500 miles later. Then, we call you guys and are told you never heard about the problem, and don't pay attention to SpyderLovers.com posts! Frankly, someone needs to start heeding legitimate complaints. I, as many other owners, have over 300,000 miles on various motorcycles, and I am not a complainer. But, if something is wrong, then I would like to have it corrected. I don't appreciate BRP doing something to my Spyder that was not requested, which is what you did.
Sincerely,
Dudley J. Stelly
Just want to add my regrets and disappointment about the steering update. You guys really choked us on that one. My steering is a lot improved, but the engine running like a spastic rabbit at low RPMs in first gear is not what I brought it in for. I am a very disappointed owner, as are many others. My Spyder was almost a flawless performer until now. Apparently, you guys read a few posts about people wanting better gas mileage and threw that in for a bonus without doing enough testing in the field. Anyone spending that much money on a great machine, then gripes about the gas mileage, should never have bought a Spyder. If getting 3-4 more MPG is that important, sell it.
We completed a 13,624 mile journey last Wednesday. I had the update done in Worthington, MN. Ran really well until about 500 miles later. Then, we call you guys and are told you never heard about the problem, and don't pay attention to SpyderLovers.com posts! Frankly, someone needs to start heeding legitimate complaints. I, as many other owners, have over 300,000 miles on various motorcycles, and I am not a complainer. But, if something is wrong, then I would like to have it corrected. I don't appreciate BRP doing something to my Spyder that was not requested, which is what you did.
Sincerely,
Dudley J. Stelly
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NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
I am wondering if the owners that have seen good running and better gas mileage are the ones that had the really poor mileage before. There is a lot of variation reported here on SpyderLovers, with many folks claiming 33-35 mpg or more, while our Spyder has averaged less than 30 over a year and a half. If a Spyder was running a bit rich previously, the leaner mapping could indeed help, but if it was already on the money, the new mapping could put it into a dismal area. This is worrisome, because detonation, and burned pistons and valves could follow in time. This all could be resolved if BRP would loosen up on the mapping, and let the dealers tweak it a bit and alter the timing. They could still have limits on it, and wouldn't have to give away any state secrets, since anything done through B.U.D.S. has been pretty much inpenetrable thus far. Just let the dealers do a bit of fine tuning. Another goofy idea on my part, but one can dream, can't one?
I do agree with Dudley, BTW, if you have to ask about the mileage, you can't afford it, so to speak.
I do agree with Dudley, BTW, if you have to ask about the mileage, you can't afford it, so to speak.
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fred
New member
i just sent the following to BRP... btw .. i'll be calling them as well
"I had the BRP steering recall performed on Aug 3. at St Marie Sport, St Hubert QC.
Directly following, my Spyder Roadster had a "hesitation" in the mid-RPM range. It was very consistent and noticeable, as though it is being starved for fuel or spark.
On 14 August; the dealer, in consultation with the BRP Tech line changed the spark plugs, and the evap canister. The problem still persisted.
Following another call to the Tech Line, the vacuum line from engine to evap canister was clamped ; the hesitation had stopped. I was asked to ride the Spyder and call in on Monday(the 18th)
Today, 18 August, after speaking with the dealer, BRP again recommended to change the evap canister, I reminded them that this had already been done... we have not heard further from St Marie Sport or BRP.
Clamping the vacuum hose may well be a band-aid for the rough running.. it by no means is a fix
I would appreciate your prompt recommendation so St Marie may fix my Spyder satisfactorily.
I will call tomorrow to confirm receipt of this email and to discuss the issue"
lets keep those emails flowing
"I had the BRP steering recall performed on Aug 3. at St Marie Sport, St Hubert QC.
Directly following, my Spyder Roadster had a "hesitation" in the mid-RPM range. It was very consistent and noticeable, as though it is being starved for fuel or spark.
On 14 August; the dealer, in consultation with the BRP Tech line changed the spark plugs, and the evap canister. The problem still persisted.
Following another call to the Tech Line, the vacuum line from engine to evap canister was clamped ; the hesitation had stopped. I was asked to ride the Spyder and call in on Monday(the 18th)
Today, 18 August, after speaking with the dealer, BRP again recommended to change the evap canister, I reminded them that this had already been done... we have not heard further from St Marie Sport or BRP.
Clamping the vacuum hose may well be a band-aid for the rough running.. it by no means is a fix
I would appreciate your prompt recommendation so St Marie may fix my Spyder satisfactorily.
I will call tomorrow to confirm receipt of this email and to discuss the issue"
lets keep those emails flowing
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