Should I use API SM Oil; & can low oil cause exhaust smoke?

[CLady]

Ok, I have a couple things going on here and I need some clarification before I try and figure out what the actual problem is. I am long winded and like to be thorough, sorry in advance.

I have a 2013 STL SE5. I bought it in 2015 and took it to my local dealer to do an oil change and a look over. They said the head gasket needed to be replaced. There was no smoke at the time but I had them replace it under warranty. It took forever and they ended up having to replace the drive belt (I think it's called) also because they damaged it while it was there. They also tore one of the spark plug boots so it was arcing and tried to blame bad gas for it idling so badly and dying at stops. I took it to a different dealer several hours away a few times and finally got the plug wires replaced on my dime once they figured out what the problem was.

A year after that I had a neck injury and haven't really been able to ride since. From 2016 through now it has only been ridden a handful of times. My neck is getting better and I wanted to see if I could wear a helmet and ride again. I got a new battery yesterday because the old one was completely dead. It started up just fine first try. I noticed smoke out the exhaust and waited a while giving it a few revs to warm it up and burn off the condensation. Still smoking. I don't know how long it needs to run before it's completely warmed up though. It was smoking when I did ride it two years ago to bring it to where I moved to. Was at least a 35 minute ride so it should have been warmed up enough then. I didn't notice the smoke when I was riding but my ex, that was following me, said it was smoking. I had to stop messing with it yesterday because it started raining and I keep it in a bike barn outside. I wasn't able to really tell if the smoke is white or gray so I don't know if it's from the head gasket going bad again or if it's burning oil.

After I turned it off I checked the oil and it wasn't even registering on the dipstick. Went back to the local dealer and go a couple quarts of oil since I'm not sure how low it is. The oil that they sold me is XPS 5W-40 4T synthetic blend with an API SM rating. I checked the operators manual and it says not to use API SM because it can cause clutch slippage/damage. I checked the BRP website and this is the oil they have available there. So, first question is, should I use this oil? I assume that since it's what is available on their website that it's ok to use? I didn't see anything else available there.

I just now checked the coolant and it's a little low. Bright green, not brown. I'll get some coolant to top it up.

I'm going to guess the answer to my second question is a no but I'll ask it anyways. Can having really low oil cause smoke from the exhaust?

Lastly, if it's burning oil how far can I ride it on the highway before it'll seriously damage the engine? I really don't want to take it to my local dealer after the fiasco of the first service there. If I can find someone to follow me so I can get back home I'll consider taking it where I did before to Lifestyles in Mt. Vernon instead of the 10 minute ride from me. It would be anywhere from 76 to 136 miles depending on the route I took (ferry or no ferry). I don't know anyone with a trailer that could take it there for me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[BajaRon]

You've got a lot to unpack here.

It would be good to know when the smoking issue began. That might point you back to an original source. I assume the smoke is coming from the exhaust. You could pull the spark plugs and check for fouling. That might point you to the offending cylinder (assuming it's only one that is passing oil). And assuming it's an oil burning issue. The exhaust smell can also give you clues. Burnt oil has a very different smell from coolant or unburned fuel. Volume and color of the exhaust smoke are also clues.

Being low on oil is not a good thing. How low would be a major question. Though with a dry sump system, I would think oil pressure has been maintained, which is the primary concern.

With all the known issues you had with the repairs. It is not out of the question that the head gasket fix went bad somehow. They could have dropped something into the cylinder or who knows what else.

You might want to have a compression test done on the cylinders to try and narrow down the possibilities. Also, check for error codes to see if the ECU has stored any clues.

Good luck...

 

[CLady]

Thank you for your response.

Yes, the smoke is coming from the exhaust. It started smoking 2 years ago after mostly sitting for 4 years. It was only ridden a few times during that 4 year period and to my knowledge was not smoking during that time. I know for sure it didn't smoke for about 8 months after the head gasket replacement as that was as long as I was able to ride it before my neck issue.

I just checked for error codes and nothing came up.

This is the oil that the dealer sold me that has the API SM on it which the manual says not to use oil with that rating. Is it ok to use to fill the oil?
https://can-am-shop.brp.com/on-road...c-blend-oil-4t-5w-40-synthetic-blend-oil.html

I'd like to get oil in it so I can try and look at the smoke after it's sufficiently warm and try to see the color.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You've got a lot to unpack here.

It would be good to know when the smoking issue began. That might point you back to an original source. I assume the smoke is coming from the exhaust. You could pull the spark plugs and check for fouling. That might point you to the offending cylinder (assuming it's only one that is passing oil). And assuming it's an oil burning issue. The exhaust smell can also give you clues. Burnt oil has a very different smell from coolant or unburned fuel. Volume and color of the exhaust smoke are also clues.

Being low on oil is not a good thing. How low would be a major question. Though with a dry sump system, I would think oil pressure has been maintained, which is the primary concern.

With all the known issues you had with the repairs. It is not out of the question that the head gasket fix went bad somehow. They could have dropped something into the cylinder or who knows what else.

You might want to have a compression test done on the cylinders to try and narrow down the possibilities. Also, check for error codes to see if the ECU has stored any clues.

Good luck...

:agree: .... as to the cause IMHO the Techs at that dealership have a lot to bedesired ./... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thank you for your response.

Yes, the smoke is coming from the exhaust. It started smoking 2 years ago after mostly sitting for 4 years. It was only ridden a few times during that 4 year period and to my knowledge was not smoking during that time. I know for sure it didn't smoke for about 8 months after the head gasket replacement as that was as long as I was able to ride it before my neck issue.

I just checked for error codes and nothing came up.

This is the oil that the dealer sold me that has the API SM on it which the manual says not to use oil with that rating. Is it ok to use to fill the oil?
https://can-am-shop.brp.com/on-road...c-blend-oil-4t-5w-40-synthetic-blend-oil.html

I'd like to get oil in it so I can try and look at the smoke after it's sufficiently warm and try to see the color.

This leads me to think " oil over-filled " is more likely than gasket failure or low oil ..... also BRP sells lots of different veh's which have different oil requirements .... You said the oil you bought at the dealership was labeled API - SM then The dealer sold you OIL that wasn't /isn't designed for the Spyder's .... I hope you have the receipts, I think the dealer is on the hook for your issues .... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[CLady]

This leads me to think " oil over-filled " is more likely than gasket failure or low oil ..... also BRP sells lots of different veh's which have different oil requirements .... You said the oil you bought at the dealership was labeled API - SM then The dealer sold you OIL that wasn't /isn't designed for the Spyder's .... I hope you have the receipts, I think the dealer is on the hook for your issues .... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

I have the receipt from the oil I just bought. Haven't put any in yet because I'm still trying to research it. I don't know where the receipt is from when the head gasket was replaced back in 2015.

The operators manual says to use P/N 293 600 121. The oil they sold me is P/N 779133. I found a couple references on some online stores noting that 779133 replaced 293600121. If that's the case then I would think that this oil is ok to use. They really should note when something has been updated because I'm completely confused.

That is the only oil that is shown on the BRP website in their on road section of their store.

I called all 3 local auto parts stores and none of them carry the right oil.

Guess I'll have to wait until Tuesday unless someone knows for sure if 779133 is really a replacement and ok to use. :banghead:

 

[CopperSpyder]

You can always run down to your local auto parts or Walmart store and get some motorcycle 4T oil that is JASO II rated on the back label to use now, until you can find out about that SM BRP oil. There are lot of different brands I use Mobil 1 but others here use some of the other brands with no problems also. The price will be from $6.00 to $11.00 a quart in Walmart. Good luck, I think your on the right track, put some oil in it and run a little. Than see what you got.

 

[CLady]

You can always run down to your local auto parts or Walmart store and get some motorcycle 4T oil that is JASO II rated on the back label to use now, until you can find out about that SM BRP oil. There are lot of different brands I use Mobil 1 but others here use some of the other brands with no problems also. The price will be from $6.00 to $11.00 a quart in Walmart. Good luck, I think your on the right track, put some oil in it and run a little. Than see what you got.

Thank you for the suggestion. I called them all and none of them have 5W40 synthetic blend with the right rating. I'm guessing putting in 10W40 and it being a different brand wouldn't be a good idea.

 

[CopperSpyder]

10-40 is good don't worry about brand or mixing with the 5-40 that is in there, it will all mix fine. When was the last time you change the oil? If 2015 was the last time it will be due when you get the bike running good again. You may have more of an old gas problem than anything else.

 

[CLady]

10-40 is good don't worry about brand or mixing with the 5-40 that is in there, it will all mix fine. When was the last time you change the oil? If 2015 was the last time it will be due when you get the bike running good again. You may have more of an old gas problem than anything else.

It was in 2015 so yes, I need to get it changed. I put stabilizer in the gas when I started having the problem with my neck and could no longer wear a helmet for extended periods. I'm sure it needs to be run through and new gas put in. I'll run to Walmart and see what they have after work tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[T.P.]

Do we have any members in Washington who could swing bye to check this out for another member?
CLady, you may need to give your location and a contact Number.
T.P.

If I remember corectly, The 2013 ST's had big over heating issues and had a panel replacement with more air scoops.

 

[CLady]

Do we have any members in Washington who could swing bye to check this out for another member?
CLady, you may need to give your location and a contact Number.
T.P.

If I remember corectly, The 2013 ST's had big over heating issues and had a panel replacement with more air scoops.

I haven't personally had any overheating issues.

I'm on the Olympic peninsula near Poulsbo. If someone knowledgeable can help me out I'd be happy to pm my number.

If I can get oil in it then I can run it long enough to see how much smoke there is, what it smells like and what color it is. Take it for a short ride, see how she runs and put some fresh gas in. I think it's at about half a tank. I'll have at least a little more info after that. I'll try and get some oil tomorrow after work.

I do appreciate the suggestions.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Any Motorcycle oil that is rated at JASO MA II or better will work fine providing there are no friction modifiers in the oil. The API rating is not the issue when it comes to the oil you should use. You should look for the JASO standard and/or the API donut with the lower half blank - see attached. The JASO standard is a good guide considering that some oil manufacturers/bottlers do not put an API donut on the labels. If the lower half of the API donut is not blank, do not use that oil. Manufacturers/bottlers use the lower half of the API donut to indicate if there are additives in the oil. Modern oils, synthetic/semi-synthetic/mineral, can be mixed without any issues, but you must ensure the oil does not have any friction modifiers. Good luck.

 

[Piratezz]

I am with Baja Ron, on this subject, also think that one sparkplug or lead is going bad, and causing the smoke, also a cylinder compression check, comes to mind..

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

CLady - First of all - XPS is the correct oil for Spyders. See, there's even a little picture of one on the front of my bottle. It’s another new bottle, same oil. 779133.


About this time 3 years ago, there was an uproar on here about the the SM rating showing up on the bottle after the first redesign of the bottle. Many emails and phone calls were made to BRP Care about this, both by dealers and owners. I'm a little shocked over the memory loss by some of your responders. It's the same oil it always was and as stated, not all SM additive packages are the same, even though they would meet the SM standards. BRP specs their oil from Castrol and it is safe for the wet clutch. They DID NOT sell you the wrong oil.

 

[BCNewell]

My first thought, before just adding “X” amount of oil, is: are you checking the oil correctly? According to the manual? I know many of these engines will read low if you check them cold. Just saying ...

 

[T.P.]

The dipstick for the ST is on top of the dry sump tank on these not the crankcase.
check the level when hot within a couple of minutes of shutdown.

T.P.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

CLady - First of all - XPS is the correct oil for Spyders. See, there's even a little picture of one on the front of my bottle. It’s another new bottle, same oil. 779133.


About this time 3 years ago, there was an uproar on here about the the SM rating showing up on the bottle after the first redesign of the bottle. Many emails and phone calls were made to BRP Care about this, both by dealers and owners. I'm a little shocked over the memory loss by some of your responders. It's the same oil it always was and as stated, not all SM additive packages are the same, even though they would meet the SM standards. BRP specs their oil from Castrol and it is safe for the wet clutch. They DID NOT sell you the wrong oil.

Thanks for this .... I stand corrected ...... When I decided to use only Full Syn that had the JASO MA II rating, I was no longer concerned with the SM SN designation ....Mike :thumbup:

 

[CLady]

Okay so I went ahead and used the XPS oil that I got from the dealer. The quart I have is different than shown in the image from snowbelt spyder and doesn't have the little pictures on it. It has larger ones and it's like a jet ski, atv and something else which was another reason I was so confused. I did check the level properly and double checked the manual and checked it again before putting any in.

I took it for a ride today and it rode really well. Other than when I slowly accelerate from a stop it's really smooth. Great on the highway, no stumbling or seeming like it's misfiring. When I accelerate from a stop until I'm at around 20mph it's a little rough and jerky. To be honest, I don't remember if it was like that before since it's been so long since I've ridden it. Shifting seemed fine as well.

The really good news is that it stopped smoking some time during my ride today.

Now to get a repair manual and the right socket and figure out how to get to the spark plugs so I can make sure they look ok and get it in for an oil change.

Thank you so much to everyone that gave their opinions and advice. I really appreciate you all.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, you have a 9 year old 998 engine. So, as long as you have all those panels off of it doing the plugs, replace the two vacuum hoses that go between the MAP sensor and the throttle bodies. Any cracks in them will cause rough running at low speeds also. Not going to repeat the whole thing in this thread here. Just Google search the forum and you'll get a mountain of information on it. Plus the repair manual will show you where it all is. Good Luck. You'll get it all sorted out.