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Share your experiences with Performance shocks for 2023 RT's?
- Thread starter CrazyCooter
- Start date
CrazyCooter
Member
The air bag is a completely separate system as I understand it, but it's been a bit since I really looked at it? The bag just inflates as loads are added to level the rear, so why couldn't you have both?
CrazyCooter
Member
We got everything swapped last Friday and what a difference!
You can tell from the time you step on the bike that the spring rates and damping are a quite bit firmer. First thing I noticed was the rear didn't squat and bounce when boarding, then the ride from there was MUCH improved as expected over a small 1/2-1" chop due to the tires being actually controlled. Brake dive was reduced by probably 80%. I do think that I would opt for a slightly firmer rear spring, as I think the air bag is doing too much work with both of us on board, and the rider sag wasn't able to be reached without the rear suspension topping out.
The rear required 18 clicks and the front 5 clicks from full seated on rebound. I think I will be re-valving the front rebound for sure in the future, but we will get things broken in with a few more miles before making any changes.
Overall, wife is over the moon with the new dynamics!
You can tell from the time you step on the bike that the spring rates and damping are a quite bit firmer. First thing I noticed was the rear didn't squat and bounce when boarding, then the ride from there was MUCH improved as expected over a small 1/2-1" chop due to the tires being actually controlled. Brake dive was reduced by probably 80%. I do think that I would opt for a slightly firmer rear spring, as I think the air bag is doing too much work with both of us on board, and the rider sag wasn't able to be reached without the rear suspension topping out.
The rear required 18 clicks and the front 5 clicks from full seated on rebound. I think I will be re-valving the front rebound for sure in the future, but we will get things broken in with a few more miles before making any changes.
Overall, wife is over the moon with the new dynamics!
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Hello from soggy Scotland. I have been an avid reader for a wee while now and have owned a 2023 spyder rtl since early September. Mine and my wife's combined weight is only around 200 pounds (pygmy people) can this have adverse handling qualities or do I need more practice ?
kbirdsong
New member
From your feedback, I guess I'll be adding the Elka rear shock soon. Thanks for the riding report!
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CrazyCooter
Member
Highly recommend!
The lack of rear rebound control was the first thing I noted on the bike and I would think after upgrading the fronts, it would be highlighted even more so.
CrazyCooter
Member
You might not benefit as much as we did with you being lighter?
Brake dive and body roll on a stock bike would be much less for lighter riders, but the front ride on rougher roads was much improved by proper control. Elka might even set you up a lighter front spring than ours further improving ride over OE?
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BigPoppa
Member
I'm running Elka Stage 5's front and rear on my F3 Limited since I'm a very aggressive rider and wanted the full adjustability. Definitely a stiffer ride, nowhere near as comfortable on longer rides but much more composed in the twisties. The lack of space for shocks with remote reservoirs is a big part of the reason I went with the F3 Limited instead of the RT Limited. I've had my Stage 5's for a little over a year now with no signs of leakage. I hope you're enjoying the improved handling of your RT with the Stage 2's.
CrazyCooter
Member
I so wish would could have gotten stage 5's! We chose the RTL for the extra suspension travel, ground clearance, and storage space knowing we would be touring the back roads. Both of us have really become suspension snobs as I have gone through quite a few shock changes on the Jeeps/bikes over the past few years....She has ridden with me most of those development miles and has become quite the connoisseur herself! Cool thing is that I can tune around the clickers with the piston shim stacks, it's just not as easy as twisting the clickers!
We're riding 2up tomorrow night for a christmas light tour, so I'll get a few miles in the front seat........I'm really a 2 wheeled kind of guy though!
CrazyCooter
Member
We had a chance to put 350 miles on the Spyder over the weekend both 2 up and solo. and happy with the new feel, but I have some concerns on whether or not the spring rates are correct. I'd love to get @Rednaxs60 in on this since he seems to be the only other technical suspension talk guy around here who I have found by searching.
My thoughts riding solo: As a tuner and a rather hardcore performance enthusiast... The front feels a bit firmer than it needs to be, but the rear feels OK? While cornering hard on the throttle, I can easily pull a front wheel up which I'm not sure it's a good thing? Things are much sportier now though! I would drop the front spring rate 10% to improve comfort, as I feel Baja Ron's bar has the cornering roll under control. Air pressure in the bag runs at about 42psi. The Spring it came shipped with has a 7.2kg/mm (403lb) rate and I would drop to a 6.5kgmm (350-375ish) rate for a bit more bump compliance/comfort since we ride rough back roads 90% of the time.
My thoughts riding 2up: The damping is overall is pretty dialed, but I would prefer a heavier rear spring. I can pretty easily lift a front tire when aggressively cornering, but I wouldn't normally ride that fast with a passenger... I was doing it to test. Elka sent us a 475lb spring which did not allow me to get rider/static sag or even original ride height (Air bag dumped) properly without topping the shock out without a rider. That screams heavier spring rate. Air pressure in the bag easily exceeds the sensor's ability 100psi+ with a passenger. This in my opinion is TOO HIGH for that style of bag. I can easily hit wide speed bumps at above the posted speed like an off-road ATV without bottoming and excessive rebounding. I'm thinking at least a 20% bump in spring rate of 575/600lb would put us where we need to be? I'd like to see the air bag pressure 5-20psi solo unloaded and leave the rest in reserve for a passenger and cargo.
Her thoughts riding solo: It's perfect! Confidence and ride are now 80% better than stock and her speeds have improved by at least 20%. She did have a cooler in the frunk and maybe that softened up the front a tiny bit? I didn't have to wait for her much, but I am a bit more concerned now that she is traveling faster! The main thing was that she was not fatigued at day's end chasing me around on some of NorCal's twistiest and roughest roads like she used to be. Now we can ride more miles if desired without push back from her...
I might add a bit in the low speed rebound damping area or tighten up the bleeds a bit depending on what I find inside the front shocks, since the bike bounces a couple of times after stomping on the foot boards and we're running the clicker pretty close to full tight... I'd like to see it 15-20 clicks out. If I went down on the spring rate, we might only run 10 clicks out and not need any changes?
Now I know some of you are thinking WHY? It rides just fine!? Well, I'm that guy who geeks out on making everything better for safety, performance, and comfort.
My thoughts riding solo: As a tuner and a rather hardcore performance enthusiast... The front feels a bit firmer than it needs to be, but the rear feels OK? While cornering hard on the throttle, I can easily pull a front wheel up which I'm not sure it's a good thing? Things are much sportier now though! I would drop the front spring rate 10% to improve comfort, as I feel Baja Ron's bar has the cornering roll under control. Air pressure in the bag runs at about 42psi. The Spring it came shipped with has a 7.2kg/mm (403lb) rate and I would drop to a 6.5kgmm (350-375ish) rate for a bit more bump compliance/comfort since we ride rough back roads 90% of the time.
My thoughts riding 2up: The damping is overall is pretty dialed, but I would prefer a heavier rear spring. I can pretty easily lift a front tire when aggressively cornering, but I wouldn't normally ride that fast with a passenger... I was doing it to test. Elka sent us a 475lb spring which did not allow me to get rider/static sag or even original ride height (Air bag dumped) properly without topping the shock out without a rider. That screams heavier spring rate. Air pressure in the bag easily exceeds the sensor's ability 100psi+ with a passenger. This in my opinion is TOO HIGH for that style of bag. I can easily hit wide speed bumps at above the posted speed like an off-road ATV without bottoming and excessive rebounding. I'm thinking at least a 20% bump in spring rate of 575/600lb would put us where we need to be? I'd like to see the air bag pressure 5-20psi solo unloaded and leave the rest in reserve for a passenger and cargo.
Her thoughts riding solo: It's perfect! Confidence and ride are now 80% better than stock and her speeds have improved by at least 20%. She did have a cooler in the frunk and maybe that softened up the front a tiny bit? I didn't have to wait for her much, but I am a bit more concerned now that she is traveling faster! The main thing was that she was not fatigued at day's end chasing me around on some of NorCal's twistiest and roughest roads like she used to be. Now we can ride more miles if desired without push back from her...
I might add a bit in the low speed rebound damping area or tighten up the bleeds a bit depending on what I find inside the front shocks, since the bike bounces a couple of times after stomping on the foot boards and we're running the clicker pretty close to full tight... I'd like to see it 15-20 clicks out. If I went down on the spring rate, we might only run 10 clicks out and not need any changes?
Now I know some of you are thinking WHY? It rides just fine!? Well, I'm that guy who geeks out on making everything better for safety, performance, and comfort.
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Mikey
Well-known member
Are you being spanked by Nanny? If not, then your front tires aren't lifting as high as you may think and you're leaving a little on the table. You sound like you're having a blast trying to get her dialed in, good for you and good luck trying to get a sweet spot for both one up and two up!!
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CrazyCooter
Member
Saturday night we were out on a Christmas light tour, and I lifted the front tire on a roundabout. Next stoplight the guy who was behind us was freaking out saying we lifted a front tire... My wife told the guy that it's normal and I do things like that to piss her off! :yikes:
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Yeah, lifting a tire on a roundabout isn't all that hard or uncommon, even if you haven't done it deliberately!
The real skill is in lifting it at will, then keeping it up there and spinning at about the same speed as the other tires so that you can do a 'Spyder Salute' while riding along straight with that one wheel in the air for a hundred metres or so! Doing THAT takes a bit of practice to master, and then ongoing practice to maintain the skill too! :thumbup:
CrazyCooter
Member
Yeah, lifting a tire on a roundabout isn't all that hard or uncommon, even if you haven't done it deliberately!
The real skill is in lifting it at will, then keeping it up there and spinning at about the same speed as the other tires so that you can do a 'Spyder Salute' while riding along straight with that one wheel in the air for a hundred metres or so! Doing THAT takes a bit of practice to master, and then ongoing practice to maintain the skill too! :thumbup:
So I assume there is a threshold where the stability control takes over and you have to stay below or do you have to just slow down at the same speed as the tire in the air? Seems like it chops the throttle and brakes pretty quickly as the wheel comes up? If this was my bike, I'd probably find a way to disable all the nanny BS because it just makes it unsafe for an aggressive rider who can predict and adapt. The LF wheel might be slowing down faster since that rotor is warped and could be dragging a fair bit more?
On my KTM/Huskys I have installed "Off Road Dongles" that allow shutting that stuff off and remembers your settings until you change them back........I've had the rear ABS almost crash me multiple times over the years and it's a real downer at killing 11:00 wheelies! She definitely would like to disable pressing the mode button at every power up!
The Nanny chopping the throttle &/or applying the brakes quickly is pretty much directly related to how smoothly you lift the wheel &/or react to that happening; and from there on in, it's basically a handful of the first bit in the bolded stuff above; and a fairly equal sized bunch of the second bit... and a warped rotor slowing a wheel faster or irregularly once it's in the air certainly won't be helping!! :banghead:
Smooth control is the key to pretty much everything on a Spyder, and while I too originally thought I wanted to disable or at least damp down the Nanny's intervention, but as I've learnt & become more aware of her foibles and practiced riding riiiiggghhhttt up to the limits (both on the road and on the track/skid-pan), the more I've come to think that Bosch have actually done a VERY good job at getting the whole thing pretty close to absofreakinlutely spot on!!
hyea: Admittedly, I do have an upgraded ECU, and I've tossed the krapendas and changed to some real tires, tweaked the suspension a bit, and spent a whole lot of saddle time learning how best to move my weight around to enhance the Spyder's phenomenal stability and traction, but the more I've done (and I've still got a loooong way to go!
) the more convinced I am that none of it makes any real difference if you can't manage to achieve smooootttthhhh application of all your riding & control inputs. 
And while I don't think you really HAVE to wait for the Mode thing on any 2023 Spyder any more, I reckon it's pretty easy to get used to that as well - my 2013 doesn't have any of the 'no-wait to start' or 'by-pass the wait' capabilities that started to come out on Spyders from around 2015, so unlike most with newer Spyders, when I'm riding that and not someone else's machine, I have no choice but to let that thing do its cycle! But I definitely do NOT WAIT for it any longer!! :lecturef_smilie: I simply turn the key ON as I reach the bike and before I do anything else; and then by the time I've got my jacket, helmet, & gloves, etc. et al on, & I've swung my leg over the saddle, it's waaaay past the end of the required wait time; and in fact, I'll often press the mode button in the middle of all the gearing up stuff, basically just doing that as soon as it shows up as being ready, and then I can even have the bike running & starting to get the oil circulating by the time I'm ready to go - so it's no longer an issue to me or the Child Bride at all! :thumbup: It doesn't really take most all that long to work out a way that works for them to merge the mandated 'read the bloody safety notice' wait time into their routine.
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I installed the HR front springs on the stock springs and a Elka rear shock. I also have the sway bar. for tires I have the gen 45 on there rear. planning to put a quality front tire on this winter. I am very pleased with the handling on this setup . I am hoping the new tires up front will give me even more capability in the corners ..
CrazyCooter
Member
I would never have been interested in installing a heavier front spring on the OEM shock as the damping was already lacking and springs would just further exploit that weakness? Night and day difference in ride and control over the rough stuff after the Elka's were installed even though things were slightly firmed up.
JRI makes good stuff, but nothing for the rear? I also noted the supply some light springs in comparison to the Elka's we just installed. 403# vs JRI's 250# on the RT shock and 200 on the F3? Crazy how far off every tuner's idea of perfection is? Seems like I remember the OEM supplied RT rate being something like 200lb, but preloaded A LOT?
My opinion regardless is that anyone riding mostly solo considering adding Baja Ron's "Ultra" front sway bar possibly drop 10% on the spring rate over what is supplied without up front. Anyone who is lighter (say 175ish or less) possibly select Baja Ron's "Original" bar and standard spring rate. select. This will allow the bar to control the roll while getting a more comfortable compliant ride from the slightly lighter spring rate especially while cornering on the choppy roads. Both my wife and I are on the "fluffy" side, so more bar to negate roll was selected, but since she rides solo most of the time, we don't need to negate dive as much as 2up so lighter spring could be used.
Nothing is a one sized fits all situation, but most people wouldn't know the difference after an upgrade anyway since the OE stuff is so bad???!! Could this be where buying a package from one experienced vendor comes into play? Obviously Lamonster comes to mind. I gave all of the rider/bike profile info to Elka and they still sent me a cooking cutter solution that doesn't work for us...........I wouldn't most certainly think that almost anyone would have been satisfied, because most people don't have the expertise behind them to point out the weakness and it was a complete transformation. Hoping my working with Elka will help others in the future.
When someone buys a suspension package from me, it's custom tailored...Sprung, valved, and perfectly balanced to work together. This is what I what I expect from my Spyder, but it's a possibility that the industry hasn't caught up yet. This could very well be a niche where I jump in like I did with the Jeeps and Sprinters?
JRI makes good stuff, but nothing for the rear? I also noted the supply some light springs in comparison to the Elka's we just installed. 403# vs JRI's 250# on the RT shock and 200 on the F3? Crazy how far off every tuner's idea of perfection is? Seems like I remember the OEM supplied RT rate being something like 200lb, but preloaded A LOT?
My opinion regardless is that anyone riding mostly solo considering adding Baja Ron's "Ultra" front sway bar possibly drop 10% on the spring rate over what is supplied without up front. Anyone who is lighter (say 175ish or less) possibly select Baja Ron's "Original" bar and standard spring rate. select. This will allow the bar to control the roll while getting a more comfortable compliant ride from the slightly lighter spring rate especially while cornering on the choppy roads. Both my wife and I are on the "fluffy" side, so more bar to negate roll was selected, but since she rides solo most of the time, we don't need to negate dive as much as 2up so lighter spring could be used.
Nothing is a one sized fits all situation, but most people wouldn't know the difference after an upgrade anyway since the OE stuff is so bad???!! Could this be where buying a package from one experienced vendor comes into play? Obviously Lamonster comes to mind. I gave all of the rider/bike profile info to Elka and they still sent me a cooking cutter solution that doesn't work for us...........I wouldn't most certainly think that almost anyone would have been satisfied, because most people don't have the expertise behind them to point out the weakness and it was a complete transformation. Hoping my working with Elka will help others in the future.
When someone buys a suspension package from me, it's custom tailored...Sprung, valved, and perfectly balanced to work together. This is what I what I expect from my Spyder, but it's a possibility that the industry hasn't caught up yet. This could very well be a niche where I jump in like I did with the Jeeps and Sprinters?
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CrazyCooter
Member
Do you know what rear spring rate they supplied you? RT or F3 model?
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