Serious errors P0123, P2135, P284E, P2806. Please help

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Wmoater, I think your trouble comes from left handlebar switch. The main headlight relay is activated by the ground side of the main headlight relay coil being taken to ground by the processor board in the MSL. If the processor board in the MSL has crapped out or been damaged in some fashion or other it's conceivable it would cause all those other errors. The shift signal comes from that board, as does also the cruise control signal from the right handlebar switch cluster. Take the left switch cluster apart an see what you find. It may not be anything more than water or cleaning agent got onto it when you cleaned everything.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

R2 is controlled by ECM (not console like I said above).

By way of the MSL processor board, not by direct connection to the ECM.

Actually, to be more accurate the relay is controlled by the MSL board which is controlled by CAN Bus signals from the ECM.

 

[BertRemington]

Based on what Idaho described my 2014 wiring is apparently different from the 2017 so ignore my circuit description.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Based on what Idaho described my 2014 wiring is apparently different from the 2017 so ignore my circuit description.

Interesting! I'm also looking at the 2014 RT wiring diagram!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My bad. It's the CC signal from the MSR that comes to the MSL, not the throttle signal.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Wmoater, which headlight relay did you pull? There are 3 of them, main, hi beam, low beam. The main is grounded by the MSL. The other two are grounded through the ECM. Pull all three out and see what happens when you put each one back in by itself. If nothing happens with the main only then leave it in and try the other 2 one at a time.

 

[BertRemington]

A second look at the 2014 schematic shows the US/CAN configuration is:

+ Power Circuit: Battery => RFB J4 (Always-On) => RFB R2 (N-O) => Lo Beam

+ Coil Circuit: Battery => RFB J4 (Always-On) => Jumper US/CAN Only => RFB R2

- Coil Circuit: RFB R2 => ECM (ECMB-F1)

When the engine isn't running and independent of any switch position including Ignition, when the ECM grounds the - Coil Circuit the Lo Beam will illuminate. That is only J4, R2 and the ECM are involved and only the Lo Beam (not Hi Beam) will be illuminated. This is the circuit used for 30 seconds after the engine is turned off.

Therefore pulling any relay other than RFB R2 and any fuse other than RFB J4 will have no effect on the above. If it does then something is seriously wrong.

 

[Wmoater]

Ok here is where I am at. I pulled #2 relay sitting on bike right side, looking at from front left. It's the top row second in from left. I disconnected battery. Sprayed the crap out of inside and blew out with air with instant dry cleaner. Then wiped down both the fog and headlight relay. Inserted and headlight came in. Next I think I found the initial problem. I have already disconnected the 5 pin connecter that pedalbox went in. I noticed the OEM rubber plug rubber seal is cut. I noticed the middle pin is white flaked on both pedal commander and OEM. I also noticed a discolor on the center pin. So I sprayed the OEM plug on both sides. Spray ran right out bottom of plug. Cleaned and dried. Didn't do anything with pedal box. I connected both OEM and headlights go out instantly once dash clears. PERFECT! started and got a new code. C0122. All other codes gone. Limp back. So I thought the computer still thinks pedal box is attached. I literally could turn throttle and nothing to little would the motor rev. So I turned off. Turned back on and turned throttle slowly 10 times before motor started. The ringing of throttle became more clear. Other words not sure if this is correct or not but reprogramming throttle without pedal box. The ringing now sounds constant except skips at pull. I turn off and back on and now throttle is perfect. I shot down the road in every gear high and low and it downshifted as should. RPM perfect. No clicking sounds perfect. Everything works perfect. Headlights go out everything as was. I get a P0122 at start still. It says limp still but it's not in limp at all. I believe sitting on bike right side just at knees there is an oval shaped plastic I believe is the throttle sensors. Option one now that I've done everything that need to take to dealer, hook up and it will clear. Or either the top or bottom one needs replaced. After sitting for a couple hours, I am sure now one needs reset or fixed. When I went out and started, I figured I'd try a couple other things. It now surges when I turn throttle. Almost like a standard and letting clutch out too fast. Now I understand it's cold start now but from what I have seen on other vehicles there's a tiny drop-down bar like with little dots. I think that's what you guys call angled throttle something on this machine. I bet that needs reset or replaced. Guessing it's in the top of that. I now know for a fact the pedal box center pin is what caused this. I reinstalled the pedal box and once cleaned the center pin must be a constant ground of some source. The lights stayed on. So I ran current and yep meter reads center pin is open. There is a short in center pin of pedal box. Disconnected hooked up OEM. RESET throttle and all good again except P0122. So please verify P0122 has something to do with the oval what I think is sensors stacked on right side up high at knees sitting on it. Again, it's saying limp mode, but no way is limp mode on. I can go 60-70 and downshifts everything as was. Lights turn out everything acts like it should have.

 

[Wmoater]

The left side J4 relay did nothing to change actions. Cleaned anyway. Made no difference. The r2 is what turns the headlight off after the 30 second. I swapped the 4 with the deside to make sure relay was good and no difference. I called dealer and he said bring in this Thursday, he'll hook up and see if the P0122 clears. If it clears, I am back 100 percent. If not, I attack those 2 sensors. I know the pedal box shorted center pin which keeps the headlight on for sure now. With pedal box removed and everything clean it runs perfect except limp mode which doesn't seem to be affecting anything. Airbag perfect, ride sensor perfect and everything is fully charged as in battery and connected and bolted. So dead battery came from headlight staying on and headlight is from center pin.

 

[BertRemington]

P0122

ECM

First Throttle Accelerator Sensor (TAS) Short circuit to GND

Damaged circuit wires, damaged throttle position sensor or damaged ECM pins.

Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure resistance from connector: ECMB-K1 to TAS-A (expected value: < 2 ohms). Measure resistance from connector: ECMB-K3 to TAS-B (expected value: < 2 ohms). Measure resistance from connector: ECMB-E1 to TAS-C (expected value: < 2 ohms)

 

[BertRemington]

So dead battery came from headlight staying on

Yep.

headlight is from center pin.

Nope.

 

[BertRemington]

I have already disconnected the 5 pin connecter that pedalbox went in. I noticed the OEM rubber plug rubber seal is cut. I noticed the middle pin is white flaked on both pedal commander and OEM. I also noticed a discolor on the center pin.

First, it's a 6-position connector.

Second, I've used connectors like that on my friend's SCTA roadster which runs at Bonneville Salt Flats and I don't have the problems you observed. Something is deeply wrong here. And it ain't the PB.

 

[Wmoater]

I'll look at those tomorrow. I'm done for today. Is the TAS that oval black box on right side that rings when turning throttle before motor is turned on?

 

[Wmoater]

You are correct. 3rd pin white wire on PB was all covered in white coming from OEM. Sorry it's been a long day. The OEM is pink. Once everything especially those pins cleaned the headlights kicked off as it should have OEM TO OEM. OEM TO PB lights stayed on. So right now removing PB clears all problems except P0122.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

I'll look at those tomorrow. I'm done for today. Is the TAS that oval black box on right side that rings when turning throttle before motor is turned on?

Hey "W". You would really benefit from a Service Manual. Hope that you consider it.

TAS = Throttle Acceleration Sensor. It's a dual Hall-Effect sensor that is physically located and is a part of the throttle twist grip assembly on the handlebar. It tells the ECM how much throttle you are asking for. It's all together as an integral assembly. I'm pretty sure that you'd need to replace the whole twist grip assembly, but I haven't researched parts.

TPS = Throttle Position Sensor. It's a dual potentiometer that is physically located inside that oval box and tells the ECM how much throttle you are actually getting. Remember, even though the fuel injectors control engine fuel flow, there still is a throttle body that controls the air flow.

Also, inside of that oval box is the rest of the mechanicals that open and close the air supply butterfly valve of the throttle body. Everything is all integrated into one assembly. That sound you heard wasn't "ringing", it was just the sound of the actuator motor and stuff operating. That seems to be operating just fine.

I think it's pretty plausible that this whole pedal box scenario either fried sensor number 1 in your TAS, or that you still have an issue inside of that connector. What I don't think, is that a simple trip to the dealer to try to reset a fault code will be successful. Something is going to need either repaired or replaced. Good Luck.

 

[Wmoater]

Thanks snowbelt and Bert for all your advice so far. I did take it into the dealer last night. I know the tech pretty well. He simply hooked it up verified the codes and cleared it. I started the Spyder and then believe it or not the P0122 cleared. Then revved it and the stupid P0123 code appeared and back into limp mode. The P0123 and P0122 are identical. We ran the ohm test etc. and for sure it's the throttle twist handle needs replacing we think like you guessed. He has seen that a few times. The sensor is definitely part of the body. I then explained the headlight situation and he said the same thing you guys did. That’s impossible. It was just at closing, and he had a few minutes to spare so I said if you have a second, I’d like to test and show you. Go ahead he says I’d like to see it. I hooked up the PB, turned on bike and programmed the throttle. Stops blinking turn bike off. Turn back on, rev it, and PB sounds perfect. Turn bike off and guess what, Headlight (you are correct low beam only) stays on after the bike shuts down. Pull the J4 goes out. Put J4 back in and back on. Pull the R2 goes out. Put back in goes on. Turn bike off, disconnect pedal box, and hook up OEM connectors and yep turn Spyder back on and no throttle at all when turning handle. Turn bike off, then turn key, turn the throttle 10 times very slowly. TPS rings perfectly. Turn bike off and back on after it shuts down and now have throttle again and stupid P0122 error. He says no way, plugs it back in, clears the code, and P0123 appears. I’m throwing that PB away! Dumb me never registered it so I can’t send it back for repair or warranty I don’t think. Will contact Lamonster once I got this fixed. New right twist TAS coming in on Tuesday.

 

[Wmoater]

Guys need some serious help here. This makes no sense to me and even my dealer is scratching his head. When looking at the twist housing which I guess controls the throttle and adjusts “speed” (refer to that speed part later?) We ordered part number 710004583 which holds the sensor 1 (throttle acceleration sensor) and seems to be all one part. I see no way to remove it without breaking it. The housing was back-orderd and came in today; when I opened it there is no sensor or harness in there. It’s just the housing. So I personally called BRP, and the tech guy says I need what is called the speed sensor not the throttle sensor. He says I am saying it wrong. I read off the exact code and the code even says throttle accelerator sensor (TAS). I sent him a picture of the exact sensor in the twist throttle body, and he says speed sensor. I need the throttle sensor don’t I, or are they the same? I looked on the schematics and the speed sensor I guess could have it in there, but I don’t see it on the diagram. All I see is the long cable like connector. Can anyone figure out or find the part number for the throttle sensor #1 that is supposed to be in the twist housing but is not? There are no part numbers for throttle sensor! My dealer can’t find any numbers either! The part BRP says I need is 219800456. Are they correct? I still don’t see how it isn’t part of the entire housing, but I haven’t taken the entire housing apart to see how it comes in...

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Ok. First, both of the Acceleration Sensors, #1 and #2 are both together in a single unit. You can’t order just #1. So, referring to it by sensor #1 may be contributing to the problem. Yes, electrically, you may only have a failed #1 sensor, but it is integral to the twist grip assembly. You have to buy the whole thing. So, your dealer should have ordered the entire twist grip assembly - 709402720- shown on the parts list on the Steering diagram. That’s where the TAS is.

Your dealer ordered just the switch housing assembly, which is shown on the Electrical System Accessories diagram. But, that’s not where the TAS is.

BRP is giving you the part number for the Speed Sensor on the right front wheel. Probably because he thinks of that as the #1 sensor, hence the language issue.

So, I’m not near a 2017 manual right now in order to attach any pictures. But, the throttle twist grip assembly has two circuits going to it. One for the heat and one for the TAS. Earlier RTs had two separate connectors for those. Yours may have both circuits connected by a single harness connector. The TAS unit is just a little thing on the inside end. It’s all one piece.

Bottom line, he needs to order the right hand Heated Throttle Grip Assembly shown on the Steering Diagram - 709402720.

Now, bounce all this off your dealer and give me a second set of eyes on this. Like I said, I’m away from the manuals and using on line parts lists.

 

[Wmoater]

Excellent catch! You nailed it. Looking at the picture that is it in drawing. I also just googled it and got a few used pictures of different models but I know thats it! First the number has been superseded which mixed me up because on the 2016 that diagram is different and it should be the same as online but it’s not. Once I typed in your part number, I found the superseded number, back tracked the number and sure enough on the 2017 it does match yours. I was also looking, along with my dealer and BRP on the electrical accessories diagram which shows just the grip. I didn’t even tell BRP where to look. When I asked which part diagram they were looking at he told me the same one I had been looking at. My dealer ordered this part to overnight it and it will be here Thursday. Dumb thing is the housing is almost the identical price. I was very specific with the BRP rep. I was looking for the Throttle acceleration sensor and he insisted it was called the speed sensor and that the part I needed was the speed sensor listed above. I even questioned the name and he assured me that the sensor was included in that line. Thats when I mentioned the #1 sensor listed in the code. I will let you know on thursday but I am 100 percent sure you’re correct snowbelt!