Sensors, steering and co-inkydinks.....

[Lamonster]

Think I'm going to order this part and change it out myself after what Ron's been going through.

 

[ataDude]

Think I'm going to order this part and change it out myself after what Ron's been going through.

Order by using the old part number but be sure to get the replacement sensor... new, re-worked batch starting in November... different part number but cross-linked through the old by the BRP parts system. Make sure the label on the package, when you receive it, states November or later.

When installing, 1) place the transmission in neutral and leave it there, then 2) disconnect electrical system at the battery.

Hopefully all may go as well as mine... I never did have to hook up to BUDS for a reset. I was very surprised at that.

List was $99... I got a 15% discount from my dealer.

 

[Lamonster]

Order by using the old part number but be sure to get the replacement sensor... new, re-worked batch starting in November... different part number but cross-linked through the old by the BRP parts system. Make sure the label on the package, when you receive it, states November or later.

When installing, 1) place the transmission in neutral and leave it there, then 2) disconnect electrical system at the battery.

Hopefully all may go as well as mine... I never did have to hook up to BUDS for a reset. I was very surprised at that.

List was $99... I got a 15% discount from my dealer.

Thanks Bro. I guess they have over 1000 of these in stock at BRP now, I just got to figure out who to order it from. :doorag:

 

[ataDude]

Update: three and one-half months later... no errors or steering issues have been encountered!

And... it has never been hooked to BUDS for a reset, either. That I am surprised about.

 

[Spydr in KS]

Thanks for the update...:congrats:

 

[Putt-Putt]

:agree:

 

[dltang]

Atadude, I copied all of your comments and photos, (hope you don't mind) to send to my dealer. I have only had the steering issue once but that is enough in my book. If they can do anything to fix it now, I want them to. Even if I have to pay the $90 for the part.

 

[ataDude]

No problem, Deb, that's what they're here for.

And, as you may have noted, the current production sensor is a revision... something was noted by BRP mid-last-year to cause that.

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Atadude, I copied all of your comments and photos, (hope you don't mind) to send to my dealer. I have only had the steering issue once but that is enough in my book. If they can do anything to fix it now, I want them to. Even if I have to pay the $90 for the part.

 

[wukka]

One more pertinent tidbit of info from page 191 of my service manual (I'm bored today... not piddling or mod'ing):

"The DPS uses the following parameters:

- Battery voltage

- Engine RPM

- Gearbox position

- Vehicle speed

- Torque sensor

- Steering angle"

So, gearbox position data is a direct input into the assisted steering circuit!

I've made an appointment to have the dealer look at my Gearbox Position Sensor, so I thought I would also screen through the service manual for other information.

My manual has the information on the DPS on page 246, not 191 as you have referenced. And it makes no mention of the Gear Position as being an input to the DPS. Otherwise, it's verbatim of your remarks:

"The DPS uses the following parameters:
- Battery voltage
- Engine RPM
- Vehicle Speed
- Torque sensor
- Steering angle"

My manual's publication code says rmr2008-041. Is your's different?

 

[ataDude]

Mine is probably an earlier edition... part number 219 100 283... for SM only... might even be an original edition as it's copyrighted in 2007 with no revision numbers.

And, just maybe... MAYBE... they've since eliminated the gear sensor's input to the DPS... via software in BUDS... but it's definitely in my earlier book as quoted. This might be one of those silent recall thingies.

I never could figure out why the gear sensor input was needed when RPM and speed were also inputs along with a few others.

There are actually two areas of concern... First, some of the early production sensors appeared to be sending corrupted data. Two, the CAN BUS data transfer system appeared to be allowing the corrupted data to affect other sub-systems such as the DPS.
.

I've made an appointment to have the dealer look at my Gearbox Position Sensor, so I thought I would also screen through the service manual for other information.

My manual has the information on the DPS on page 246, not 191 as you have referenced. And it makes no mention of the Gear Position as being an input to the DPS. Otherwise, it's verbatim of your remarks:

"The DPS uses the following parameters:
- Battery voltage
- Engine RPM
- Vehicle Speed
- Torque sensor
- Steering angle"

My manual's publication code says rmr2008-041. Is your's different?

 

[Firefly]

The number I show that they replaced is 420266166.

Since they did it all I didn't see the package or anything. They show 1/2 hour labor for changing it - of course they had the bike apart for the 6K service already.

 

[ataDude]

HA... progress finally!

According to a post on another board, BRP apparently has stated to an owner having steering issues that the original gear position sensor (Generation I) had an internal solder problem and that it probably is the cause of at least some of the early 2008 steering issues.

As I stated earlier, there was a replacement part issued in the fall... that's the reason (IMHO) you're not seeing those issues on very late 2008 and all 2009 SMs.

Here, IMHO, is how I break it down...

1. Most of the intermittent steering issues are probably related to the Gen I gear position sensor on models made before September, 2008... give or take a little.

2. Most, if not all, of the pure "no power steering" issues are a result of a bad DPS box itself.

3. Throw one "red herring" in... a bad ground caused by the consumer... and I think that's it unless I've missed a few.
.

 

[dltang]

HA. According to a post on another board, BRP apparently has stated to an owner having steering issues that the original gear position sensor (Generation I) had an internal solder problem and that it probably is the cause of at least some of the early 2008 steering issues.

As I stated earlier, there was a replacement part issued in the fall... that's the reason (IMHO) you're not seeing those issues on very late 2008 and all 2009 SMs.

Here, IMHO, is how I break it down...

1. Most of the intermittent steering issues are probably related to the Gen I gear position sensor on models made before August / September, 2008.

2. Most, if not all, of the pure "no power steering" issues are a result of a bad DPS box itself.

3. Throw one "red herring" in... a bad ground caused by the consumer... and I think that's it unless I've missed a few.
.

Atadude, Your information has been a hit. I have sent it and these following posts to my service manager. I am hoping to hear something back in the near future. I will keep you posted. If you find that sensor is being replaced under warranty, you may be up for a refund.

Here are three posts from that other forum:
1. Good day all.
I got a phone call from a gentleman from BRP today, as I I was reseeding and redoing my vegetable garden.
he wanted to ask me a few more questions about my incidents and road condition, weather, speed, my height, weight and age and so on.
he was very helpful and assured me that they are on top of the steering issue as seriously as they can with the information that they have and they are definitely investigating this issue.
it seems that there is a loose solder with in the gear positioning sensor that is causing the interruption and this said sensor indicates what gear the bike is in and relays this information to the other sensors and computers. They have a new and far more improved sensor that they are using and have installed on my spyder (amongst other things)

I have to say that I feel far better hearing directly from BRP. I can now see how this sensor is causing this. if the sensor sends the wrong gear information to the other computers, the other computers will react based on the faulty information and therefor they respond in a funny way to say the least.

as for my bike, it seems BRP has spoken with my dealer many times and are aware of everything that they are doing to the machine and all test results. He said my dealer will be releasing the bike soon, but they are just doing some more testing and what not.

He also asked me to give the bike a fair chance when i get it back and report anything to the service managers at the dealer, so they can log what the changes have done and what improvements have been made as far as the steering is concerned.



again, I feel much, much better hearing from BRP directly. I do wish I had more time on the phone with him, but I was planting veggies and had mud on my hands. lol But I will ask many questions from my dealer.

2. I just called my dealer and they will replace this under warranty. They told me that they have had 5 of these go bad and they have also replaced two power steering motors. They are giving me the new part number. Call your dealers people. Explain that you have read this online and that people are getting these replaced under warranty. Like I said, I do not care if they admit a problem or not so long as BRP provides a fix at little or no cost to me.

Not sure this is the solution but it certainly cannot hurt to have the new sensor on your Spyder.

3. I agree - good info - but owners should make the dealer replace these as they are covered under warranty.

By the way - the old part number is 420266165 - the NEW part number is 420266166.

 

[ataDude]

Yepper, Deb, I read over there sometimes... just don't post there.

Thanks!
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Atadude, Your information has been a hit. I have sent it and these following posts to my service manager. I am hoping to hear something back in the near future. I will keep you posted. If you find that sensor is being replaced under warranty, you may be up for a refund....

 

[Recluze]

The dreaded intermittent power steering issue has returned to my bike.

First they replaced the Power steering unit. This did nothing.

Next they tightened a ground wire under the seat. This fixed it for 15,000 miles

Then they replaced the gear position sensor and updated the software. This worked for about 1,000 miles

Then BRP called to discuss the problem with me. At the time I had no problem so I told them everything seemed to be fine.

The next day the dreaded problem almost got me killed on some squiggly roads. It is very intermittent now. It was working fine when I brought it to the shop. Now they are going to replace the the power steering unit once more.

As a matter of self preservation I am looking for another toy just in case this does not work out. A new Spyder most likely since I really like the ride.

 

[Firefly]

The dreaded intermittent power steering issue has returned to my bike.

First they replaced the Power steering unit. This did nothing.

Next they tightened a ground wire under the seat. This fixed it for 15,000 miles

Then they replaced the gear position sensor and updated the software. This worked for about 1,000 miles

Then BRP called to discuss the problem with me. At the time I had no problem so I told them everything seemed to be fine.

The next day the dreaded problem almost got me killed on some squiggly roads. It is very intermittent now. It was working fine when I brought it to the shop. Now they are going to replace the the power steering unit once more.

As a matter of self preservation I am looking for another toy just in case this does not work out. A new Spyder most likely since I really like the ride.

Sorry to hear that. If they really determine that this is due to the gear sensor going bad, they need to re-think how the computers react to signals sent from that sensor. They could reprogram the computers to ignore the gear sensor. I fail to see why the steering needs to know what gear you're in. RPM and speed should be enough info.

 

[trldncr]

Update: Just ordered the sensor... new part number shows a replacement... MSRP is $99... minor discount available from my dealer.

Original part number is 420266165. Will be cross-referenced against the new number on BOSS-Web.

I'm putting this in myself to prevent days in the shop. I may... or may not... have to have the dealer re-zero to sensor through BUDS. We'll see.

.

if it has not already been replaced, there is a warranty bulletin that has the dealer replace and reset. This should ne done under a campaign or under the normal warranty. It really needs to be reset after installation

 

[ataDude]

Sorry, but you're about five months too late. Besides, I knew it was a warranty item at the time but did not want to leave the bike as noted in this thread. For $90, it was worth it to do it myself.

And, as far as the BUDDS reset, maybe the next time I'm in for something else. Right now, it's not going to get "fixed" because it's no longer broken. No burps, steering issues, uneven idle...

Thanks!
.

if it has not already been replaced, there is a warranty bulletin that has the dealer replace and reset. This should ne done under a campaign or under the normal warranty. It really needs to be reset after installation

 

[Lamonster]

Order by using the old part number but be sure to get the replacement sensor... new, re-worked batch starting in November... different part number but cross-linked through the old by the BRP parts system. Make sure the label on the package, when you receive it, states November or later.

When installing, 1) place the transmission in neutral and leave it there, then 2) disconnect electrical system at the battery.

Hopefully all may go as well as mine... I never did have to hook up to BUDS for a reset. I was very surprised at that.

List was $99... I got a 15% discount from my dealer.

Well I have one in my hand now so I guess I'll take a stab at it. I'm going to try it without removing the sprocket first.:doorag:

 

[widowmaker2011]

Atadude, I copied all of your comments and photos, (hope you don't mind) to send to my dealer. I have only had the steering issue once but that is enough in my book. If they can do anything to fix it now, I want them to. Even if I have to pay the $90 for the part.

I (pinkwidow1941) also had my steering taken care of last week. They did all the recalls for the brakes. I am wondering if anyone has had any strange experiences since having it done. Here is what I am now experiencing
Since having the steering reprogrammed my bike now fluctuates when holding the throttle at one speed. It will surge and then die down. My speed remains the same but it sounds almost like I am geared to high for the speed I am at? It never did that before. I did a test, when it would happen I would down shift to see if that made a difference. No go. The other really strange issue is when I am down shifting into first gear I get an error code on my display. It first will tell me that I am in neutral, then first gear and then it will flash E6. I know that I am in first gear. You can hear it go in. At one stop the display said I was in neutral, but when I tried to kick it down into first it was already in first gear. When I started up the display said I was in first gear but it was actually in neutral??? It did it at every stop. It was not a one time deal. I was worried if I would make it home.

So now I know to ask about the gear sensor and have it replaced! Thanks for all the information. Any ideas on the raw fuel smell? Had the vapor canister replaced but it is still smelling like fuel once in awhile.