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There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.
RT rescued from graveyard
- Thread starter megagame
- Start date
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
I just tried it. The best I could tell the compressor works even when the case lid is open. Because of the automatic system the rear moves very little from a set position when the button is pressed either way, but it looked to me like it did move. The engine noise covered up the compressor and air relief valve sound so much I couldn't hear if they functioned or not. The indicator bars on the cluster moved also.
The case open warning shows even when the switch is pressed. The hard/soft indicator bar moves even with the case open icon at the bottom of the screen. The full screen case open warning stayed even when the switch was pressed.
Hope all this helps!
I'm sorry, I've forgot to mention most important thing. It is 2011. It is slightlu different than 2010. On 2011 there is one resistor for all case switches.
I've tried to find datasheet for compressor switch based on numbers but it seems it is special production batch (starts with VXD).
Thank you so much for checking.
This means that case resistors are used while compressor switch is used and shematics might be wrong.
Connections according to state and final resistance in schematics:
FREE - 2-3. Resistance 1500 Ohm
UP - 2-3, 6-5. Resistance 1/1500 Ohm + 1/825 Ohm = 1/X -> Final resistance: 532.26Ohm
DOWN - 2-1. Resistance 18200 Ohm.
There is no connection with case resistors when it goes down, but your description indicates there is.
Normally momentary carling switch works that way:
Free - nothing connected
On1 - 2-1, 5-4
On2 - 2-3, 5-6
If case resistor is always checked, it may be connected directly to connector 2. Down resistor to 3, up resistor to 1. There is no need for double pole.
Typical momentary double pole carling switch does not use separate connectors for led light. LEDs are between 7 (-) and 1 or 3. Led introduces additional resistance so I need to take it into account.
So, probably final setup should be:
- cocpit to 5
- case resistor to 5
- up to 6, down to 4 (or vice versa)
- led + 2
- led - 7
I will check it probably during coming weekend and let you know.
I've started on fixing plastic parts. So many of them are broken and I need to "weld" them.
This is first time I'm doing plastic welding so this should be fun.
I've started with test part from my wife's scooter. First I used hand-held soldering iron. To penetrate two pieces and mix melted plastic together I am making deep scratches first (not so deep to make a hole).
After that I'm trying to make rough surface a little bit more flat. I'm moving the tool constantly and trying not tu burn the plastic. It needs to be melting but not burning (no smoke!).
Once whole area is less rough and it is quite how it's easier to melt it slightly with fast moves. I'm using my finger to make surface even flatter - it's very hot so I'm suggesting using something else and melted plastic can stick to fingers
.
Always both sides need to be fixed that way. For best results it is best to add more plastic to broken area with same parameters, ex. from another part. I didn't do that on test piece to check it strength after it's cooled.
I've put fixed part in vice and measured strength used to brake the piece. It was aroung 9 KG when it broke and the piece was bent so much that I'm curious if it would brake anyways if new.
One important thing to note is that I didn't try to break the piece by stretching it. I actually used worst case scenario which is pushing end of the piece like one would do to break branch on tree.
I've checked where it is broken, and it seems pieces where I was welding plastic got separated - probably because of too little/too much heat. Or maybe I should have cleaned it with acetone instead of welding very dirty piece.
Now test run is over and I need to fix my left (or right?) case. I have a donor for that, another broken case from same side (came with spyder).
Part which holds pin securing case from opening is broken. Hot knife, sanding paper, and hole for new piece is done, and replacement is prepared.
This time I've cut small 2mm wide straps from donor part to add more "meat". Also, I've used small hobby torch instead of soldering iron. That way it is easier to see when color changes and plastic starts to melt and not burn. I stull used my fingers to cool down and flatten some areas, fortunately without burning myself.
In general I was surprised how easy it is to weld plastic parts.
But, it is essential to use same type of plastic as a donor. There can be small difference but exact comparrision chart one should find by google.
Cases are made from PP-GF30 (Glass fiber-reinforced polypropylene with 30% fibers). I think all PP-GF** could be mixed but it's best to double check before welding or even do a test weld in place not visible.
[EDIT] I've continued to fix more damaged parts and I've bought additional sticks used for PP-GF welding. My observation:
- Soldering iron is best to make deep "scratches" and therefore bond plastics from two parts in deep groves. with torch it is not so easy.
- Torch helps to keep high temperature of bigger area and you can change shape of this area with fingers or flatten it to make it look better.
- When introducing more plastic (straps) from donor part into welded area it is best to use soldering iron because you can use one hand to heat up parts and use force to combine them together.
- You need to watch out to not overheat bigger area because it could collapse when you use force from soldering iron. If bigger area starts to get too hot on both sides, you can always wait for part to cool down, or use water to cool it, or support welded area by holding ex. metal plate under it.
- Even if you buy proper sticks for welding you part it doesn't mean they will melt in exactly same temperature and same way. In my case sticks started to melt sooner than parts from Spyder. When sticks were already too hot and started burning, Spyder parts were not melting yet. Because of that it was harder to bond these two and quality of bond was poor. If I used donor part with exactly same type of plastic, cut strips from it and use that for additional "meat", that was easier. Conclusion: Don't throw away damaged parts because you never know when you'll need them.
This is first time I'm doing plastic welding so this should be fun.
I've started with test part from my wife's scooter. First I used hand-held soldering iron. To penetrate two pieces and mix melted plastic together I am making deep scratches first (not so deep to make a hole).
After that I'm trying to make rough surface a little bit more flat. I'm moving the tool constantly and trying not tu burn the plastic. It needs to be melting but not burning (no smoke!).
Once whole area is less rough and it is quite how it's easier to melt it slightly with fast moves. I'm using my finger to make surface even flatter - it's very hot so I'm suggesting using something else and melted plastic can stick to fingers
.Always both sides need to be fixed that way. For best results it is best to add more plastic to broken area with same parameters, ex. from another part. I didn't do that on test piece to check it strength after it's cooled.
I've put fixed part in vice and measured strength used to brake the piece. It was aroung 9 KG when it broke and the piece was bent so much that I'm curious if it would brake anyways if new.
One important thing to note is that I didn't try to break the piece by stretching it. I actually used worst case scenario which is pushing end of the piece like one would do to break branch on tree.
I've checked where it is broken, and it seems pieces where I was welding plastic got separated - probably because of too little/too much heat. Or maybe I should have cleaned it with acetone instead of welding very dirty piece
.
Now test run is over and I need to fix my left (or right?) case. I have a donor for that, another broken case from same side (came with spyder).
Part which holds pin securing case from opening is broken. Hot knife, sanding paper, and hole for new piece is done, and replacement is prepared.
This time I've cut small 2mm wide straps from donor part to add more "meat". Also, I've used small hobby torch instead of soldering iron. That way it is easier to see when color changes and plastic starts to melt and not burn. I stull used my fingers to cool down and flatten some areas, fortunately without burning myself.
In general I was surprised how easy it is to weld plastic parts.
But, it is essential to use same type of plastic as a donor. There can be small difference but exact comparrision chart one should find by google.
Cases are made from PP-GF30 (Glass fiber-reinforced polypropylene with 30% fibers). I think all PP-GF** could be mixed but it's best to double check before welding or even do a test weld in place not visible.
[EDIT] I've continued to fix more damaged parts and I've bought additional sticks used for PP-GF welding. My observation:
- Soldering iron is best to make deep "scratches" and therefore bond plastics from two parts in deep groves. with torch it is not so easy.
- Torch helps to keep high temperature of bigger area and you can change shape of this area with fingers or flatten it to make it look better.
- When introducing more plastic (straps) from donor part into welded area it is best to use soldering iron because you can use one hand to heat up parts and use force to combine them together.
- You need to watch out to not overheat bigger area because it could collapse when you use force from soldering iron. If bigger area starts to get too hot on both sides, you can always wait for part to cool down, or use water to cool it, or support welded area by holding ex. metal plate under it.
- Even if you buy proper sticks for welding you part it doesn't mean they will melt in exactly same temperature and same way. In my case sticks started to melt sooner than parts from Spyder. When sticks were already too hot and started burning, Spyder parts were not melting yet. Because of that it was harder to bond these two and quality of bond was poor. If I used donor part with exactly same type of plastic, cut strips from it and use that for additional "meat", that was easier. Conclusion: Don't throw away damaged parts because you never know when you'll need them.
Last edited by a moderator:
ThreeWheels
Active member
Holy Moly.
I'm in awe at megagame's skill set.
I'm in awe at megagame's skill set.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
Hey mega, have you tried mixing ABS chips with acetone as has been suggested here on the forum to use as a paste glue? Most of the plastic on a Spyder is ABS and others here have said the acetone/shavings thing works good.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
I don't think so. Scratch my comments above about the test. I did it wrong. The engine has to be running, trans not in neutral, brake pressed, and park brake off. This time I heard the compressor and release valve operate.
The compressor and air release valve do not function directly in response to pushing the switch. You have to push the switch momentarily for each step change in the shock setting. In other words if you want to move up three bars you have to press the up, or hard, switch three times. After a few seconds the cluster sends the signal to make the change. Pushing and holding the switch is the same as pushing and releasing one time. The case open warning does not show when the down button is held down. It will show when the up button is held down. As soon as the down button is released the warning shows. In practicality this does not matter since the warning does not show continuously anyway and there is no reason to hold the button down.
Hope this helps!
Thanks, I will try that today.
[EDIT] After your post I've found many videos about that on YT. Thanks
[EDIT2] Not I've found out that this will not work on PP parts, which are mostly used as structural parts not exposed to debris from road. Acetone does not dissolve PP. At least it works great on ABS
.The case open warning does not show when the down button is held down.
Thank you for explenation. I missed that part - don't know why. And I assumed light were showing open cases all the time. Sorry for misunderstanding.
This would mean that cocpit can recognize state when up is pressed and and cases are open but we don't know if it would work when down is pressed and cases are opened. I need to check that.
It is not a problem if it would not recognize two resistors connected in parallel, in the end it doesn't make sense to have spyder running and in gear and have cases open. Still, I'm quite curious if it will work.
Thank you for explenation. I missed that part - don't know why. And I assumed light were showing open cases all the time. Sorry for misunderstanding.
This would mean that cocpit can recognize state when up is pressed and and cases are open but we don't know if it would work when down is pressed and cases are opened. I need to check that.
It is not a problem if it would not recognize two resistors connected in parallel, in the end it doesn't make sense to have spyder running and in gear and have cases open
. Still, I'm quite curious if it will work.Thanks
. I have spare time now because of winter in Poland. And I made so many errors when doing similar stuff that I'm immune to failures 
.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
Just curious, mega. What is your history with using American English? You have a command of it we usually don't see with those for who English is a second language. It's so easy to understand what you are saying it really makes it pleasant to communicate with you. Maybe I like it because I'm just intellectually lazy! 
hyea:
hyea:
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
I should have been more complete in my explanation. The cluster appears to periodically poll for case open/close state and up/down switch state. I didn't pay close enough attention to get an idea how often. When it first sees a case switch closed the warning shows full screen. After a bit that closes and subsequent warnings are over the odometer. Those warnings come and go. They do not stay showing. What I did was wait until the warning disappeared then push and hold the down button. The warning came up in full screen as soon as I released the button. That tells me the cluster saw the case as closed during it's polling but during next poll cycle after I released the button it saw the open state as a new state. With the up button held down the polling continued and the cluster read the switch state as lid open, (switch closed). I think the cluster polls the switch and case alternatingly and so it does not care what the case state is when it polls for up/down/free state, and does not care what the switch state is when it polls for case open/close state. Why the same circuit is used for polling both items, and why the down and up conditions are treated differently is a mystery. My guess is for whatever reason going this approach must have had some benefit in either the logic design or physical tracing of the cluster processor board.
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Just curious, mega. What is your history with using American English? You have a command of it we usually don't see with those for who English is a second language. It's so easy to understand what you are saying it really makes it pleasant to communicate with you. Maybe I like it because I'm just intellectually lazy!
It's quite interesting you've mentioned it. When I've started documenting my progress with spyder I've actually had two goals: share some knowledge on forum which helps me very much with my work and practise my english
. I'm used to listening and reading everything in english: podcasts, forums, news, etc., but I don't use it myself at all. It's great training for me to check my spelling or recall wards I've heard but don't remember anymore. And, I'm quite devoted to properly form my thoughts so that they are easy to understand - I'm a senior software developer so I need to be able to explain my thoughts to non-technical people.Oh, and South Park always been a big help
.BTW, thank you for comment, it's pleasant to hear all that.
It makes sense to show big warning first once state changes and show smaller warning afterwards. Same with "come and go". If these warnings behave same way as other warnings (ex. faults) there seems to be some kind of queue/pool design implemented.
From your description one thing is sure, down and up behave differently and it is reflected on schematics.
What remains now is me testing whether down and case switch can be used at the same time. That would allow me to connect case switches parallel to carling switch. If not I don't have proper switch for compressor.
Fortunately, since these switches are 5$ each, I've bought two in case I would need to disassemble it and change its internal connections.
My right-side passenger handle is badly broken and no replacement in used parts in Poland. So, I have to fix it.
Working with heated plastic is like working with plasticine - it's fun. Also, the more I use soldering iron for this work, the more I like it. Torch only heats up surface, but soldering iron allows to mix PP from two parts in deep scratches. It is easier to heat smaller area as well, which prevents from collapse due to too much heat.
Working with heated plastic is like working with plasticine - it's fun. Also, the more I use soldering iron for this work, the more I like it. Torch only heats up surface, but soldering iron allows to mix PP from two parts in deep scratches. It is easier to heat smaller area as well, which prevents from collapse due to too much heat.
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After assembling rear cases I've taken my Spyder for short ride and I still get Limp mode after crossing 8km/h, even after changing my ABS. This doesn't happen when I'm stopped.
I've checked data in BUDS and all seonsors are working: all 3 speed sensors, brake pressure and brake light.
I don't have DPS and I'm starting tu suspect that lack of DPS is causing ABS to throw errors after spyder starts to move.
To be sure this is the case I would need to buy DPS unit or mimic CAN messages to see what happens, but i don't know what data a good working DPS unit is sending.
Would anybody with BUDS be so kind and show log data from Busmaster app (free, made by Bosch) while spyder is idling? 5 seconds of data would be more than enough. In busmaster IXXAT driver needs to be selcted.
I've checked data in BUDS and all seonsors are working: all 3 speed sensors, brake pressure and brake light.
I don't have DPS and I'm starting tu suspect that lack of DPS is causing ABS to throw errors after spyder starts to move.
To be sure this is the case I would need to buy DPS unit or mimic CAN messages to see what happens, but i don't know what data a good working DPS unit is sending.
Would anybody with BUDS be so kind and show log data from Busmaster app (free, made by Bosch) while spyder is idling? 5 seconds of data would be more than enough. In busmaster IXXAT driver needs to be selcted.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
I'll see if i can do that for you, maybe next week. I have an annual calendar project I need to get done first.
I suspect the DPS may be the reason since the limp home doesn't show when you're stopped. The one time I ran into a limp home error was with a throttle body issue, but as I remember the limp home stayed showing even after stopping.
Thank you so much.
This is so ftrustrating. Every lead I have points to ABS unit beeing broken (on other vehicles), and my previous unit was in fact broken - it wasn't showing any pressure in BUDS.
But this time everything seems to work fine. Tomorrow during the day I will take my wife with me for a ride with BUDS connected and laptop in her hands to confirm pressure sensor is working when spyder is moving. It would be so strange if both units are damaged. It is possible though.
When I connected another (current) ABS unit pillion rider switch was not working (C1083). After some time I discovered GND connector in ABS unit for this switch (pin 2) is not shorted to ground, and in previous ABS unit GND for switch was shorted to GND for ABS in another pin (13 and 38). When I connected GND from switch to GND in battery instead of GND in ABS (pin 2) error was gone and BUDS started to see correct state of switch. This indicates there might be a problem with ABS or this unit was used on newer models with different connections. I've moved connector from pin 2 in ABS plug to another pin which had GND signal on ABS side (and it was not used in the plug) and pillon rider switch now works. But this leaves me with questions. Is ABS already damaged? Should I buy another unit?
Another very strange thing I doscovered today, not related to ABS, is that 3 of 4 switches above glove box are not having their LED light working. Electrical schematics show that they use E pin in glove box plug instead of H for first switch. This is probably because BRP wanted to turn on the light for there switches when spyder is running. But E pin in the plug from bike side is con used and it is for sure like that from factory (there is green rubber instead of cable and connector). This is so strange. It's like I have some strange version which is not the same as described in service manual for this year.
I will wait for your help and try to fix the problem with DPS later, maybe this will solve the issue, otherwise I will have to buy another ABS from US or I'm stuck.
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