Red Headed Step Child versus F3

[billrob71]

LOL

I like the new F3 but love my RSS better , I can't imagine BRP is gonna forget any of us with The RS's ST's and the RT's there is gotta be more concentration on the new bike just because it's new.

 

[otter28169]

I'm still betting that this is the last year for the RSS...

No way: all the development costs have been recouped, the "bugs" have been worked out, and it is the closest thing to a sport model that BRP offers. It may seem like a stripped down model to the RT crowd, but to us it is the only model we want.

Just sayin'..........

 

[Bob Denman]

I also think that it'll stick around... :thumbup:

 

[sledmaster]

You have all made some good observations here. As with the motorcycle market, Spyders are now being offered to cover the main model segments, which are actually riding positions and feature packages. We have the Sport (RS), Sport Touring (ST), Touring (RT) and now Cruiser (F3). They all represent different riding positions from one end to the other, from far forward (RS) to less forward (ST) to neutral (RT) to laid back (F3).

Of motorcycles, the Sport segment is about 20% of the market, and the RS represents only 2% of those sales. The Sport Touring segment is only 7% of the motorcycle market; of that, the ST has 13% of the sales. The Touring segment is also 7% of the total motorcycle market; of that, the RT has 34% of the sales.

So now we get to the real reason Can-Am is building the F3; the Cruiser segment is 66% of the motorcycle market......2/3 of the total. Up to this point, the Spyder models have only been targeting 1/3 of the market. Now their appeal is going to be three times what it was. 3X. This is why it is called the F3. They only used to be after 1/3 of the market, now they are in all 3/3 of the market and all 4 main segments.

I would expect all of our current segments to continue to exist, the RS, ST, RT and now the F3. If anything it seems likely for them to come with a smaller, lighter, lower powered machine. But you will probably see all of our four segments represented from this point forward. The F3 should not takeaway many from the RT crowd, but it will take away from the RS and ST riders simply due to the price point and the engine offering. And once you ride one and see how it feels and handles, the riding position becomes far more of an asset, even if you are not a cruiser rider.

 

[Bob Denman]

Interesting observation... :clap:
Thanks! :thumbup:

 

[mindman]

WOW :2thumbs:

These new F3 Spyders are impressive and look extremel well thought out, don't know about the rest of you but with all the attention and the great lineup of accessories the new F3 is getting and has, us RT, ST and RS owners are feeling like (as the saying goes) the red headed step children of the Spyder Line up!

lol

Way to go BRP! looking forward to watching this lineup change as future model years come along :yes:

I disagree. The F3 appeals to the "missing demographic" in the Spyder Line-up. If I could be so bold as to attribute 2 wheel motorcycle classes to Spyders, There are Cruisers, Sport Bikes, Sport Tourers and Tourers. (of course there are more like Cafe racers, and naked bikes, but I'm generalizing here a bit). BRP had the Sport Bike, Sport Tourers and Tourers covered, now it has the Cruiser segment covered. Different "bikes" for different types of riding. I can see the same thing happening for BRP. I can definitely picture people with 2 or even more Spyders in their "stable".

 

[Bob Denman]

I wouldn't mind having a Stable of Bikes to choose from each day; would you?

 

[spydaman60]

If we're gonna start prognosticating about 2016 already...
RS Entry level.. 600 cc ACE engine, simplified bodywork and electronics: lower piricing
RS-S Will this be the year that the 998 gets more hair on it's chest? Yes, and it'll also get a new chassis; perhaps even a "leaner".
F-3 The Powercruiser
ST The Sport Tourer.. the 1330 will finally make it's appearance.
RT The land yacht. It'll get new mirror mounts, a better stereo, and hopefully: larger saddlebags.

Now; If anybody else wants to take a stab at the future; my Crystal Ball is off the table...

i got to agree with you on the most part, but the rt is only going to get a few new colors!!! nothing else!!!:roflblack:
:roflblack::roflblack:

 

[PrairieSpyder]

You have all made some good observations here. As with the motorcycle market, Spyders are now being offered to cover the main model segments, which are actually riding positions and feature packages. We have the Sport (RS), Sport Touring (ST), Touring (RT) and now Cruiser (F3). They all represent different riding positions from one end to the other, from far forward (RS) to less forward (ST) to neutral (RT) to laid back (F3).

Of motorcycles, the Sport segment is about 20% of the market, and the RS represents only 2% of those sales. The Sport Touring segment is only 7% of the motorcycle market; of that, the ST has 13% of the sales. The Touring segment is also 7% of the total motorcycle market; of that, the RT has 34% of the sales.

So now we get to the real reason Can-Am is building the F3; the Cruiser segment is 66% of the motorcycle market......2/3 of the total. Up to this point, the Spyder models have only been targeting 1/3 of the market. Now their appeal is going to be three times what it was. 3X. This is why it is called the F3. They only used to be after 1/3 of the market, now they are in all 3/3 of the market and all 4 main segments.

I would expect all of our current segments to continue to exist, the RS, ST, RT and now the F3. If anything it seems likely for them to come with a smaller, lighter, lower powered machine. But you will probably see all of our four segments represented from this point forward. The F3 should not takeaway many from the RT crowd, but it will take away from the RS and ST riders simply due to the price point and the engine offering. And once you ride one and see how it feels and handles, the riding position becomes far more of an asset, even if you are not a cruiser rider.

So -

• RS has 2% of the 20% of the total market that are Sport motorcycles
• ST has 13% of the 7% of the total market that are Sport Touring motorcycles
• RT has 34% of the 7% of the total market that are Touring motorcycles
• F3 is targeting the 66% of the total market that are Cruiser motorcycles

Really?

• Though its only 7% of the total market, getting a THIRD of that is great!! :2thumbs: (Or is it the RT is 34% of Spyder sales?)
• And they have about 1/3 of the combined Sport & Sport-Touring, as well!! hyea:

I understand North America is the biggest cruiser market. Or at least cruisers make up most of the market here, as opposed to in Europe, where sport bikes are more preferred.

Thanks for the market analysis. :thumbup:

 

[ARtraveler]

I wouldn't mind having a Stable of Bikes to choose from each day; would you?

It is going to boil down to the one you like best though. I can choose from the 2011 998 or the 2014 1330. The 2011 hardly gets ridden by me anymore. Usually one day a week to check it out for akspyderlady's weekend ride.

We have also heard similar from those that really do have a "stable" to choose from. The BMW and HD's, as well as other brands seem to fall by the wayside in comparison to the :spyder2: when it comes to which one shall I ride today.

 

[ARtraveler]

So -

• RS has 2% of the 20% of the total market that are Sport motorcycles
• ST has 13% of the 7% of the total market that are Sport Touring motorcycles
• RT has 34% of the 7% of the total market that are Touring motorcycles
• F3 is targeting the 66% of the total market that are Cruiser motorcycles

Really?

• Though its only 7% of the total market, getting a THIRD of that is great!! :2thumbs: (Or is it the RT is 34% of Spyder sales?)
• And they have about 1/3 of the combined Sport & Sport-Touring, as well!! hyea:

I understand North America is the biggest cruiser market. Or at least cruisers make up most of the market here, as opposed to in Europe, where sport bikes are more preferred.

Thanks for the market analysis. :thumbup:

However...we are dealing with statistics here. WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, WILL ROBINSON...:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

 

[mob133]

Patti, I agree with you. I love my ST-S. I don't know the entry pricing for the F3 but it looks like bare bones as far as features. It looks like someone could spend a whole lot of $ to equip it with a wind shield, luggage, etc. By then the price might be in line with the ST or RT.

Dealer told me in the $7000 area for the touring option

 

[Bob Denman]

Who did you call; a BMW dealer?? :shocked:

 

[sledmaster]

I think the take-away here is that BRP was a company that knew snowmobiles, ATVs and watercraft. They started out building Spyder models based on what they knew and what they were good at. That said, their first three models really only targeted 1/3 of the total motorcycle market. And of those first three models, the RT was by far the most successful. 1/3 of Touring bikes sold are now Spyder RTs. But, Touring bikes are only 7% of the total market.

In analyzing why the other motorcycle enthusiasts were not buying a Spyder, it was primarily because of the riding position and the styling, but also the handling. Cruisers are 66% of the U.S. market, so the existing three models were not appealing to 2/3 of the potential buyers. Huge opportunity was being missed.

The F3 will greatly broaden their appeal across the biggest segment there is. They do not look at it as us buying an F3 instead of what we own right now, that misses the point; the F3 is aimed at riders of cruiser bikes who currently do not own a Spyder. Sure, some of us will cross over, but we here are a very small number compared to the 66% that is being targeted. We compare the F3 to the Spyders we currently own and ride; the rest of the world will compare the F3 to the Cruiser they currently own and ride. The F3 is really the first Spyder that will be embraced by the majority of bike enthusiasts, especially when we factor in the aging demographic and the safety benefits. These riders recognize the safety, they just wanted to sit on it like what they were used to, be able to customize it, have it fit them and be comfortable regardless of their height, and have it look cool so it better fit their own personality. Even if not a single current Spyder owner buys one, the F3 will still be a success. Five years from now we will look back at this moment and realize the significance of the F3 introduction and how it really put the Spyder on the map when it comes to true motorcycle market acceptance. That is my prediction, and history will be the judge.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: And I sure hope that you're 100% correct! :2thumbs:

 

[robmorg]

You might see the RS taken in an even more "Sporty" direction...
But that's a discussion best left for next year's "Silly Season".

Well... I would say that next year's "Silly Season" is already here, since you can no longer speculate on the 2015 models.

So... I am predicting that this is indeed the last year for the RS model. What you will see in 2016 is an F3-like version of the RS (under a new name) with, tubular framing, a partially exposed 1330 engine (like the F3), and an expansion of the Ufit feature that will allow the owner to ride it with knees bent like a current RS, or with legs out like the current F3. If they do that, there is no reason that they should keep the RS in the lineup alongside the F3.

In fact, ALL models will eventually have the lighter F3-like tubular frame, the 1330 engine, and some version of the new Ufit system. Everything will be based on the F3 frame (or a version of it). The cowlings, seats, storage systems, suspension, and amenities will be what the differentiation is between models.

 

[Bob Denman]

 

[hchays]

Not at all...
The ST was brand new in 2013, and the RT got a complete makever last year... :2thumbs:
My guess, is that the RS will be re-born in 2016. :thumbup:

Yep! In a year or two the RS/RSS will be reborn/replaced with the new and higher price F3.

 

[robmorg]

Yep! In a year or two the RS/RSS will be reborn/replaced with the new and higher price F3.

While I agree with that (along the lines of what I said a few posts above), I also think that there will be a "stripped down" version in he $10-11 grand range. That will attract younger riders with less money to spend initially. They can then accessorize it over time. That seems to be what they were shooting for in 2015, but didn't quiet get there this year - most likely because that pricing model just didn't fit with the current line.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree:
As i have also been saying: Perhaps you'll see a stripped down and de-contented RS, with the Ace 600 Twin, under the hood...