rear air-ride bag and compressor gone - is protector still avail?

[trikermutha]

Maybe, but I think not. I believe the air bag system is a spring helper and sets the optimal ride height because of the large variation in rider/passenger weights. If you always ride one up or two up, you could probably get a different spring, set to the proper weight and with that get rid of the air bag system. Of course, a high quality and properly tuned shock is always a good thing.

My setup works fine with one or two riders and never bottoms out. Don't need the sir bag or compressor. JMO

 

[Myron Ah]

Yes, the bag was bad. I tested it over night without anything hooked to it. it all leaked out. It is going back together now! I bypassed the auto system. hooked up a gauge and switch to the compressor.

 

[Myron Ah]

so, the Viair 97c compressor is installed and works. I bypassed the computer auto fill system. I left the sensors and such so it should still let out some if it is over filled for the setting. I ran power to a toggle switch and powered the compressor manually. I installed a psi gauge in the dash in place of my analog fuel gauge. I also installed a voltage gauge in place of my analog temperature gauge. Waiting on a new magnetic oil drain plug. I decided to change my own oil too. well, the service guys at the dealer were rough on the plug, especially when tightening it. The allen head or star head was stripped! I finally was able to get a bigger allen bit in it. after really pushing on it, "SNAP"!!!! Thought it broke but no, it loosened. :yes: So now it is wait for plug and my air filter. Hopefully by next week I'll be ryding.

 

[larryd]

so, the Viair 97c compressor is installed and works. I bypassed the computer auto fill system. I left the sensors and such so it should still let out some if it is over filled for the setting. I ran power to a toggle switch and powered the compressor manually. I installed a psi gauge in the dash in place of my analog fuel gauge. I also installed a voltage gauge in place of my analog temperature gauge. Waiting on a new magnetic oil drain plug. I decided to change my own oil too. well, the service guys at the dealer were rough on the plug, especially when tightening it. The allen head or star head was stripped! I finally was able to get a bigger allen bit in it. after really pushing on it, "SNAP"!!!! Thought it broke but no, it loosened. :yes: So now it is wait for plug and my air filter. Hopefully by next week I'll be ryding.

Myron Ah, Did you get the Fernco cap that you wanted to use as a cup for the bottom of the air bag??? Also, You can use the factory dash "hard/soft switch to control the compressor on/off manually and the dump valve...Just need to unplug the factory harness from the rocker switch and get your test meter out and rewire it to suite you application...That would make you a nice winter project unless you have sleds to ride up there...larryd

PS. plus now that you have total control of your air compressor and a air gauge you can get a thread on adapter for the schrader valve and a 12' coiled 1/4" plastic air hose and you can air up tires or anything else that needs air...larryd

 

[KX5062]

My setup works fine with one or two riders and never bottoms out. Don't need the sir bag or compressor. JMO

Glad to hear it worked for you. :2thumbs:

When I took delivery on my 2014 base model RT the dealer forgot to put air into the rear suspension. The ride home was horrible and was bottoming out on the smallest bumps and wallowing in every turn. I was drawing a blank, so I called Joe Meyers and after talking to him on the phone, he suggested I check the air pressure on the suspension bag, and sure enough, there was literally no air in it. I pumped it up to about 70# and problem solved. When pumping up the air bag I watched the rear of the bike rise to the proper ride height.

 

[trikermutha]

Glad to hear it worked for you. :2thumbs:

When I took delivery on my 2014 base model RT the dealer forgot to put air into the rear suspension. The ride home was horrible and was bottoming out on the smallest bumps and wallowing in every turn. I was drawing a blank, so I called Joe Meyers and after talking to him on the phone, he suggested I check the air pressure on the suspension bag, and sure enough, there was literally no air in it. I pumped it up to about 70# and problem solved. When pumping up the air bag I watched the rear of the bike rise to the proper ride height.

Correct and my rear shock is doing the same thing but without the air bag and compressor. Still have it hooked up and never turns on. I dont have to worry about bottoming out or air leaks anymore.

Take Care!

 

[Wahrsuul]

Well, whoever said it was "easy" to bypass the compressor... That sucked. had the plastic off both sides, and still could not get the hose off the air bag. Fortunately we were able to get a coupler to connect the line from the bag to the valve so at least everything is together and going. If the bag has a leak, it's a very slow one. I put about 50lbs in it, put all the plastic back on, and when I checked it was still pretty close to 50. Not sure how much air leaked out each time I checked it so I'm taking it as a good sign. Couldn't ride today with the storm coming our way so I'll check tomorrow.

I was telling my brother about Larryd's setup and he doesn't think it should be too difficult. Did you disconnect the leveling sensor? Also, how did you hook up the external hose?

Since it seems Elka is behind on orders, if nothing is leaking, it'll stay like this for a while. But I want to change the shocks so when I do, the compressor gets replaced along with all new hoses and maybe dump valve as well. Already picked up the fernco cap.

 

[KX5062]

My 2014 would "leak" down slightly over time. I'd have to add about 20# of air about every six months or so. It was something I never worried about.

 

[larryd]

Well, whoever said it was "easy" to bypass the compressor... That sucked. had the plastic off both sides, and still could not get the hose off the air bag. Fortunately we were able to get a coupler to connect the line from the bag to the valve so at least everything is together and going. If the bag has a leak, it's a very slow one. I put about 50lbs in it, put all the plastic back on, and when I checked it was still pretty close to 50. Not sure how much air leaked out each time I checked it so I'm taking it as a good sign. Couldn't ride today with the storm coming our way so I'll check tomorrow.

I was telling my brother about Larryd's setup and he doesn't think it should be too difficult. Did you disconnect the leveling sensor? Also, how did you hook up the external hose?

Since it seems Elka is behind on orders, if nothing is leaking, it'll stay like this for a while. But I want to change the shocks so when I do, the compressor gets replaced along with all new hoses and maybe dump valve as well. Already picked up the fernco cap.

I removed the rod off the leveling sensor...Let the wiring plug still connected to the sensor...You can unplug the sensor if you have the BUDS to turn off the air ride...The external hose is easy, buy a 1/4" plastic coiled air line and you can purchase a thread on adapter that will thread on the schrader valve under the seat...The compressor needs to be controlled by you...I rewired and used the stock rocker switch...push towards hard, compressor runs...push towards soft and it operates the dump valve...YOU WILL NEED A DASH AIR GAUGE...Sorry I didn't take pictures or write notes when I did this 2 years ago...larryd

 

[Wahrsuul]

Thanks, larry, good to know. I don't have BUDS so it whatever I can do without it. Where did you remove the arm form, the one that connect to the swing arm, or the one on the back of the sensor? My brother was an electrician in the CG, and does electric and air tool R&D. He doesn't seem to think it'll be too hard to wire the switch.

Yes, we got the splitter for the air line to run the dash gauge, any specific model you'd recommend? I've got a pretty useless oil pressure gauge on the right side I can replace.

I checked the pressure this morning - different gauge and about 20 degrees cooler. Down a few pounds from what it was Sunday, so again if there is a leak, it's small. I still want to replace the rear shock so I'll probably gather parts ans do everything at once. if the pressure is dropping that slowly, I might go with a dose of Slime in the bag just to be sure.

 

[larryd]

Thanks, larry, good to know. I don't have BUDS so it whatever I can do without it. Where did you remove the arm form, the one that connect to the swing arm, or the one on the back of the sensor? My brother was an electrician in the CG, and does electric and air tool R&D. He doesn't seem to think it'll be too hard to wire the switch.

Yes, we got the splitter for the air line to run the dash gauge, any specific model you'd recommend? I've got a pretty useless oil pressure gauge on the right side I can replace.

I checked the pressure this morning - different gauge and about 20 degrees cooler. Down a few pounds from what it was Sunday, so again if there is a leak, it's small. I still want to replace the rear shock so I'll probably gather parts ans do everything at once. if the pressure is dropping that slowly, I might go with a dose of Slime in the bag just to be sure.

I completely removed the arm from the swing arm and sensor...I wire tied the movable arm on the sensor all the way down...I got a 2" air gauge from Viair for the dash...The air bag is the air reservoir, which is a very small supply of air...Everytime you check the air with a gauge you loose a little...Temperature also has some affect on the pressure in the system...I would strongly suggest replacing all the push lock fittings with a compression type, my all were leaking a little...You'll need to remove the air bag to replace the one in the top of there...larryd

PS. my hard/soft dash rocker switch has the factory harness plug unplugged also...I think getting the switch cluster out is the most frustrating part of the job if I remember correctly...

 

[DGoebel]

+1 for air line direct from bag to Schrader valve simplicity. Though replacing the rear shock when it needs it with a proper one is better.

 

[larryd]

+1 for air line direct from bag to Schrader valve simplicity. Though replacing the rear shock when it needs it with a proper one is better.

Are you talking about a air rear shock??? And if so, who has them??? larryd

 

[Mikey]

You can buy a new bag from BRP! But I think he was saying that just replacing the shock with a aftermarket and deleting the air bag altogether makes more sense!

 

[larryd]

You can buy a new bag from BRP! But I think he was saying that just replacing the shock with a aftermarket and deleting the air bag altogether makes more sense!

BUT, Depending on the weight of the rider and passenger vs just the rider alone vs the weights of different riders and passengers on the same machine...I have a hard time believing you can have one rear shock, with one NON adjustable spring that will fit all...I can believe if its the same rider and the same passenger all the time, YES that's doable with the correct spring on the shock...I know for a fact that with my "air on demand" set up that I run many different air bag pressures depending on the load and riding conditions...I think that was why BRP went with the air bag system because of the adjust ability for different conditions...If it was as simple as one shock, one spring fits all, they could have save a lot of $$$$$ going that way...larryd

 

[Mikey]

BUT, Depending on the weight of the rider and passenger vs just the rider alone vs the weights of different riders and passengers on the same machine...I have a hard time believing you can have one rear shock, with one NON adjustable spring that will fit all...I can believe if its the same rider and the same passenger all the time, YES that's doable with the correct spring on the shock...I know for a fact that with my "air on demand" set up that I run many different air bag pressures depending on the load and riding conditions...I think that was why BRP went with the air bag system because of the adjust ability for different conditions...If it was as simple as one shock, one spring fits all, they could have save a lot of $$$$$ going that way...larryd

This whole thing is getting as bad as one of our oil and tire threads!! FIRST, I, and I say I believe that this air bag, shock thing is being way over thought!!! They have bikes in the line up that don't use a air bags at ALL, and if you want to load the bike and run cross country, you turn the spring up a little and go for it!! When you get home if you don't want the extra spring load you back it off a bit and ride! This air over ride system is a great thing, when it works, but when it fails you are on the frame!! That to ME, is not dependable. Yes it's nice to sit there and push a button and adjust your ride, but really how much do you really mess with it, I found that I only adjusted it once in a blue moon! But when it blew up on me and I was on the frame, and found out how much of a PITA it was going to be and cost, I didn't need or want it! As far as this, if you take and replace this bag with just a shock and change your weight load it's not going to work, I, and I mean I, believe you are over thinking it!! There are plenty of people out there that have done it, it works fine!! What it all boils down to is, how dependable do you want things, and how much time and money do you want to put in it! Where Canam's falling short is this system the way they have it set up, it's to depredate on the bag, instead of having it for a air override spring, when your hauling a little more weight and need that little more, pump it up, your good to go, the coil over shock would take the bulk of the load! It's not that way now, and if you don't believe me, take and unplug your compressor and let the air out of the bag and take a SHORT ride around the block and see what you think!!! Sorry for being so long winded but I need to back off the coffee!! It's really not that big of a deal, don't over think it!!!hyea:

 

[DGoebel]

I replaced my stock rear shock with an M2 shock from Marcus McBain at https://www.m2shocks.com/. I like it and my wife likes it. My airbag is at 10 lbs but we've never bottomed out. Our stock check valve failed on a return trip from the Tail and we were stopping every half hour to air up the bag just to avoid bottoming out. That will never happen again.
FYI, I'm not at all happy about the fact that I weigh 300lbs and struggle with weight, but my Spyder suspension doesn't.

 

[Wahrsuul]

Yes, on may two-wheelers you just adjust the shock up and down for varying load. BUT, have to looked at where the shock is on the Spyder? Unless they put in one with remote adjustments (My ST1300 had one), it's impossible to easily adjust the rear shock. Also, I feel that BRP was copying the top of the line tourers and the 'Wing has an air ride suspension. My brother laments the loss of the manual push button system he had on his '95 Wing versus the auto leveling system on the '05 he has now.

I couldn't run with just a shock with a spring preload only. I'd have to get it set up for two-up riding, and that would beat me senseless when riding alone. She doesn't ride with me very often so having the air bag to take up the slack is pretty much my option. But I agree with larryd, changing it to a manual adjust system allows me to have it but keeps it from killing itself if there's a leak.

 

[Mikey]

Yes, on may two-wheelers you just adjust the shock up and down for varying load. BUT, have to looked at where the shock is on the Spyder? Unless they put in one with remote adjustments (My ST1300 had one), it's impossible to easily adjust the rear shock. Also, I feel that BRP was copying the top of the line tourers and the 'Wing has an air ride suspension. My brother laments the loss of the manual push button system he had on his '95 Wing versus the auto leveling system on the '05 he has now.

I couldn't run with just a shock with a spring preload only. I'd have to get it set up for two-up riding, and that would beat me senseless when riding alone. She doesn't ride with me very often so having the air bag to take up the slack is pretty much my option. But I agree with larryd, changing it to a manual adjust system allows me to have it but keeps it from killing itself if there's a leak.

When my compressor left me I was scrambling for a solution to this problem, it was the middle of the season and I was dammed if I was going to put money into some thing that was going to happen again soon! I stepped back and asked myself how much did I really adjust the the air, witch was just about never. So the other option was using the air bag manually if the bag was good, and all of the research I came up with was that the bag was really tough for the most part as long as you keep the rocks out from getting under it, I don't ride on that may dirt roads because the darn bike don't have that much clearance! So I reach searched getting a replacement shock and going away from the air system all together, and I emailed Elka and asked them some questions and one of there options were that if the bag was still good was to hook it up to manual fill and put like 10 lb in the bag, with there shock and that has worked for a lot of people with great results! The shock that comes on the bike is coil over gas, oil piece of junk that basically stops the bike from pogoing down the road and dose a bit of dampening as long as the air bag works the way it suppose to, so to save the season I chose to hook the air bag direct to the shrader, and ride! This works great for my wife and I and I have not a penny in it, and I am on the road! But when it comes time to take the next step, it will be the shock, they can make a shock to just about do any thing you want, all you have to do is ask the questions!! Good luck with your problems, hope you find a solution!!:2thumbs:

 

[larryd]

BakerAirWing used to make a very nice bolt on aftermarket air ride kit for the Spyder RT without factory air ride...If your air bag is good this was a very easy to install option and you don't need to be a really gifted mechanic and there's no need to remove the rear section of the bike...I think they were $175.00...I have 1 new one left in stock...The last time I talked to Bakers I bought some parts and they told me they had parts left in stock to build kits if needed...

Here are the install video's

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Just some additional info on the Baker compressor system. There are two installation videos on youtube.com

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H325EL9pNns
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHcj3TGqhY