Raising body height via Tyres?

[BajaRon]

Sooooooo. Update after discussions with the Ikon owner, Ron ……

The idea of the extra 10mm on the “special” Ikon shock is to give you a 4 mm vertical head start on raising the Spyder body, thus limiting big preload increases, which Ikon are always concerned about on the Spyder due to its touchy front end geometry. The extra 4mm of vertical height from the “special” shock is primarily for those who want to gain an overall 10-15 mm of height from stock, but a wheel alignment would then have to be performed if they went that high.

Geoff (Ikon owner) was quite happy with my 1.5 preload turns on the stock Ikon giving me an extra 5mm, but said he wouldn’t take it much more than that due to potential harshness of ride, even with my 300+lbs. So since my 5mm of gained vertical height on the stock Ikon shock is pretty close to achieving my clearance goal, I am going to leave it at that, and put on a couple of 165/60 Goodyear Duragrip for a few more mm. I figured I’d stay with the 165 rather than moving to 175, and be a pioneer with the Goodyear Duragrip. Goodyear work pretty well out here. Hopefully, as a “pioneer”, I don’t simply end up with an arrow in my back hyea:

p.s. Geoff’s wife has been banned from providing any future advice to customers:roflblack:

Pete

It's not so much a gain from original ride height. Though you can do about 1/2" without significantly affecting alignment. It is more about regaining lost original ride height from loading. The heavier the load, the more suspension sag you're going to get. The bike comes with soft suspension settings for the AVERAGE person and loading. Not only can this allow a 1.5" or more of initial sag. But it also allows for exaggerated body dip when driving through depressions or over humps. Upping compression dampening a bit, if your shock allows it, and increasing preload, if done reasonably, will give you exactly what you are looking for. Just recovering that initial sag is going to be HUGE! Not to mention eliminating some unwanted lean and dive in turns.

There is harsh, and there is additional control giving you a more taught ride. I don't see additional control as necessarily being harsh. I can't imagine that experimenting with another 1/2 turn or so would do you any harm at all.

It's all about enjoying the ride! Tinkering and tweaking the ride can be fun!

 

[Peteoz]

It's not so much a gain from original ride height. Though you can do about 1/2" without significantly affecting alignment. It is more about regaining lost original ride height from loading. The heavier the load, the more suspension sag you're going to get. The bike comes with soft suspension settings for the AVERAGE person and loading. Not only can this allow a 1.5" or more of initial sag. But it also allows for exaggerated body dip when driving through depressions or over humps. Upping compression dampening a bit, if your shock allows it, and increasing preload, if done reasonably, will give you exactly what you are looking for. Just recovering that initial sag is going to be HUGE! Not to mention eliminating some unwanted lean and dive in turns.

There is harsh, and there is additional control giving you a more taught ride. I don't see additional control as necessarily being harsh. I can't imagine that experimenting with another 1/2 turn or so would do you any harm at all.

It's all about enjoying the ride! Tinkering and tweaking the ride can be fun!

Thanks again, Ron. I’ll get the new shoes on in the next couple of days and take it out for a decent test run. The RT felt really good with just the removal of that 5mm or so of sag, and as I said, it cleared the usual suspect bumps and holes. There is indeed rebound adjustment, but I’d rather not fiddle with that as it was set by Ikon for my weight, riding style and road conditions. The replacement of the Kendas will also provide some benefits.:2thumbs:

Pete

 

[BajaRon]

Thanks again, Ron. I’ll get the new shoes on in the next couple of days and take it out for a decent test run. The RT felt really good with just the removal of that 5mm or so of sag, and as I said, it cleared the usual suspect bumps and holes. There is indeed rebound adjustment, but I’d rather not fiddle with that as it was set by Ikon for my weight, riding style and road conditions. The replacement of the Kendas will also provide some benefits.:2thumbs:

Pete

My feeling is that adjustments are made to, well, adjust. You paid for those adjustment abilities. Why not give them a try?

All that is needed is to record the change. If it improves things, you're good! If it doesn't, simply return to original setting. Ikon isn't you! They set your shocks for what they thought would work. But it's your bike. And your shocks. You won't know unless you try. Those adjustments are not brain surgery. It won't hurt a thing to see. Just my take on it.

 

[Peteoz]

Thanks Ron. I’m pretty happy as it stands now, especially once I get the Goodyears on. I may adjust the preload up once notch just to see how it goes, but that will be all.

Pete

 

[AlanSmith7]

I also wanted to do the same but I can’t I hope you find out your desired results then please also share them with us.

 

[Peteoz]

It's not so much a gain from original ride height. Though you can do about 1/2" without significantly affecting alignment. It is more about regaining lost original ride height from loading. The heavier the load, the more suspension sag you're going to get. The bike comes with soft suspension settings for the AVERAGE person and loading. Not only can this allow a 1.5" or more of initial sag. But it also allows for exaggerated body dip when driving through depressions or over humps. Upping compression dampening a bit, if your shock allows it, and increasing preload, if done reasonably, will give you exactly what you are looking for. Just recovering that initial sag is going to be HUGE! Not to mention eliminating some unwanted lean and dive in turns.

Ron, just by way of clarification, as I may have confused you……. The suspension settings and springs for both front and rear Ikon shocks were set to my 310lbs, not an average person. That’s why Geoff was suggesting not to go above 1.5 - 2 turns (5-10mm). I did not have 1.5” of sag to recover in the first place. :thumbup:

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ron, just by way of clarification, as I may have confused you……. The suspension settings and springs for both front and rear Ikon shocks were set to my 310lbs, not an average person. That’s why Geoff was suggesting not to go above 1.5 - 2 turns (5-10mm). I did not have 1.5” of sag to recover in the first place. :thumbup:

Pete

Pete if you bought CUSTOM front shocks and springs ..... why the heck are you bottoming, maybe contact " Geoff " and tell Him ...this is not what you paid for !!!!! and suggest He make it right ..... JMHO .... good luck ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

Pete if you bought CUSTOM front shocks and springs ..... why the heck are you bottoming, maybe contact " Geoff " and tell Him ...this is not what you paid for !!!!! and suggest He make it right ..... JMHO .... good luck ...... Mike :thumbup:

Thanks Mike……I am not bottoming. I have just explained it poorly. I needed to raise the front of the RT a little to stop the underneath apron from scraping on our very rough roads etc. The preload adjustment has done that. The Ikon shocks are working just fine.:thumbup:

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks Mike……I am not bottoming. I have just explained it poorly. I needed to raise the front of the RT a little to stop the underneath apron from scraping on our very rough roads etc. The preload adjustment has done that. The Ikon shocks are working just fine.:thumbup:

Pete

Pete here in the US what you describe is ....." bottoming " ......If your roads NORMALLY have 3 inch rocks on them, they are Not roads , they are " hiking trails "...... And if you spent ( what I think you spent ) for after-market shocks with shocks and springs....Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd still needed " pre-load adjusters " to correct that issue. Well ?????? .... none of this was intended to offend or hurt your feelings..... I have stated my opinion ( many times in other Threads ) for those who are considering buying " after-market Performance shocks w springs, I think your experience confirms that ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Pete here in the US what you describe is ....." bottoming " ......If your roads NORMALLY have 3 inch rocks on them, they are Not roads , they are " hiking trails "...... And if you spent ( what I think you spent ) for after-market shocks with shocks and springs....Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd still needed " pre-load adjusters " to correct that issue. Well ?????? .... none of this was intended to offend or hurt your feelings..... I have stated my opinion ( many times in other Threads ) for those who are considering buying " after-market Performance shocks w springs, I think your experience confirms that ..... Mike :thumbup:

In the case of the first Bold bit in the quote about NORMAL roads Mike, that pretty much means that virtually ALL our Major Highways apart from those between & around the Capital Cities of each State would qualify a Hiking Trails under that standard, and our Secondary Roads won't even rate anywhere near that qualification, especially after all the floods, fires, then more floods many of them have been subjected to over the last few years, let alone only those they've been hit with recently! :yikes:

And those '3 inch rocks" mentioned aren't necessarily just loose rocks on the roads surface - altho those certainly occur too! :sour: They can be projections pushing up IN &/or THRU the road surface sticking up that high; potholes deeper than that & sometimes longer &/or wider than a Spyder; or 'truck wallows' where the heavier weight of the 18, 27, or 36 wheel trucks that frequent many of our highways have forced a depression to form in the tarmac due to the softened ground below it - wallows that're at least the size of your Spyder, often deeper than 3", and followed or even surrounded by a raised lip that's taller than that cos the tarmac forced out of the depression/wallow hasta have somewhere to go so it swells up in the easiest area to lift around them..... :banghead: And then to add insult to the existing injury, the weakened tarmac in & around those wallows eventually breaks, leaving head sized chunks of tarmac & compressed gravel/sand mix to scatter all over the road surface as they get thrown out of the crater that results!! :gaah:

I haven't been on any ride so far this year where I haven't hit at least a few of these and dodged hundreds more; and so far in 2023, I've been pretty much unable to ride anything but the Major Highways near & around us because of the appalling conditions!! And here in the Hills outside of Adelaide in South Aust, we've had WAAAYY less flooding than they've scored all up the East Coast & around PeteOz's way!! So I reckon their roads will be significantly worse than ours!! nojoke

As for the second Bold bit about how much he spent, PeteOz might give you more detail, but generally, the Aussie Ikon shocks & Springs that he's talking about are around 1/2 the price of most of the a/mkt shocks touted by European or US/Canadian riders, often even before the currently significantly inflated transport costs we get hit with to get gear like that from EU/North America come into play - and IMHO, on our Ozzie roads (or Hiking Trails if you prefer that designation! ) those Ikons seriously out-perform those other a/mkt brands frequently preferred by riders with money to burn over there! So I'd be surprised if Pete actually did spend the kind of $$ you might be thinking he did; but regardless, I reckon he's got a suspension that's far better suited to our roads/hiking trails (albeit how rough, or less than ideal they might be?? :dontknow: ) than the OEM stuff and than you might expect from any of the more expensive EU/US alternatives, only he's a big boy and our roads have been particularly hammered & degraded over the last few years, with no foreseeable repair dates in sight! :banghead:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In the case of the first Bold bit in the quote about NORMAL roads Mike, that pretty much means that virtually ALL our Major Highways apart from those between & around the Capital Cities of each State would qualify a Hiking Trails under that standard, and our Secondary Roads won't even rate anywhere near that qualification, especially after all the floods, fires, then more floods many of them have been subjected to over the last few years, let alone only those they've been hit with recently! :yikes:

And those '3 inch rocks" mentioned aren't necessarily just loose rocks on the roads surface - altho those certainly occur too! :sour: They can be projections pushing up IN &/or THRU the road surface sticking up that high; potholes deeper than that & sometimes longer &/or wider than a Spyder; or 'truck wallows' where the heavier weight of the 18, 27, or 36 wheel trucks that frequent many of our highways have forced a depression to form in the tarmac due to the softened ground below it - wallows that're at least the size of your Spyder, often deeper than 3", and followed or even surrounded by a raised lip that's taller than that cos the tarmac forced out of the depression/wallow hasta have somewhere to go so it swells up in the easiest area to lift around them..... :banghead: And then to add insult to the existing injury, the weakened tarmac in & around those wallows eventually breaks, leaving head sized chunks of tarmac & compressed gravel/sand mix to scatter all over the road surface as they get thrown out of the crater that results!! :gaah:

I haven't been on any ride so far this year where I haven't hit at least a few of these and dodged hundreds more; and so far in 2023, I've been pretty much unable to ride anything but the Major Highways near & around us because of the appalling conditions!! And here in the Hills outside of Adelaide in South Aust, we've had WAAAYY less flooding than they've scored all up the East Coast & around PeteOz's way!! So I reckon their roads will be significantly worse than ours!! nojoke

As for the second Bold bit about how much he spent, PeteOz might give you more detail, but generally, the Aussie Ikon shocks & Springs that he's talking about are around 1/2 the price of most of the a/mkt shocks touted by European or US/Canadian riders, often even before the currently significantly inflated transport costs we get hit with to get gear like that from EU/North America come into play - and IMHO, on our Ozzie roads (or Hiking Trails if you prefer that designation! ) those Ikons seriously out-perform those other a/mkt brands frequently preferred by riders with money to burn over there! So I'd be surprised if Pete actually did spend the kind of $$ you might be thinking he did; but regardless, I reckon he's got a suspension that's far better suited to our roads/hiking trails (albeit how rough, or less than ideal they might be?? :dontknow: ) than the OEM stuff and than you might expect from any of the more expensive EU/US alternatives, only he's a big boy and our roads have been particularly hammered & degraded over the last few years, with no foreseeable repair dates in sight! :banghead:

Peter, NOW I have a MUCH better idea of what you folks have to deal with...... However " Geoff " who set up Pete's shocks/spring settings, should also know what was necessary to accomplish that goal. And it doesn't appear to me that the goal was reached..... I didn't reference the price of the Ikons to criticize Pete, or the fact that He bought them..... In the past I have compared " sway-bars " and " performance shock/springs " set-ups. To assist the un-informed in making a choice.... My comments about the " Ikons " had more to do with " Geoff " than the Ikons. A person can spend $ 25,000 on a high performance engine, but if it isn't Properly set-up, it's pretty much a waste of money .... I hope this clears up any mis-conceptions anyone has about my intentions' on this thread ..... Thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

Mike, you certainly haven’t hurt my feelings. I appreciate any feedback (well, MOST feedback:roflblack , and could see where you were coming from. I believe there is still some confusion as to exactly what issue I was trying to resolve……which was the issue I presented to Geoff.

Peter A has described the issue itself above in detail……our roads are now complete rubbish thanks to 3 years of constant flooding and 10 years of virtually zero maintenance…..thanks Peter………

My potential solution was to raise the underbody of the RT slightly to provide better clearance under load. All I did was fine tune the pre load slightly as per Geoff’s suggestion to ensure the RT underbody was a little higher when under load. I did not need “preload adjusters”. This lets me clear obstacles standing proud in the middle of the road (and there are lots of them), which has nothing to do with shocks, and everything to do with underbody clearance. That is also the reason for the purchase of 165/60 tyres, to gain a little more underbody height (as well as to get rid of the Kendas:thumbup

Unfortunately, the thread then went down a rathole of setting up shocks correctly, which had virtually nothing to do with my aim in starting the thread, but was certainly of interest, and much appreciated.

Ikon, and Geoff, were spot on in their recommendations and allowed me to achieve the solution I was after…….which is to be expected when you are considered good enough to be used by quite a few winning teams at the IOM . They really do know their stuff.

Thanks again for your feedback.:thumbup: Hopefully this clarifies my goal and the solution a little more clearly:dontknow:

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, you certainly haven’t hurt my feelings. I appreciate any feedback (well, MOST feedback:roflblack , and could see where you were coming from. I believe there is still some confusion as to exactly what issue I was trying to resolve……which was the issue I presented to Geoff.

Peter A has described the issue itself above in detail……our roads are now complete rubbish thanks to 3 years of constant flooding and 10 years of virtually zero maintenance…..thanks Peter………

My potential solution was to raise the underbody of the RT slightly to provide better clearance under load. All I did was fine tune the pre load slightly as per Geoff’s suggestion to ensure the RT underbody was a little higher when under load. I did not need “preload adjusters”. This lets me clear obstacles standing proud in the middle of the road (and there are lots of them), which has nothing to do with shocks, and everything to do with underbody clearance. That is also the reason for the purchase of 165/60 tyres, to gain a little more underbody height (as well as to get rid of the Kendas:thumbup

Unfortunately, the thread then went down a rathole of setting up shocks correctly, which had virtually nothing to do with my aim in starting the thread, but was certainly of interest, and much appreciated.

Ikon, and Geoff, were spot on in their recommendations and allowed me to achieve the solution I was after…….which is to be expected when you are considered good enough to be used by quite a few winning teams at the IOM . They really do know their stuff.

Thanks again for your feedback.:thumbup: Hopefully this clarifies my goal and the solution a little more clearly:dontknow:

Pete

Pete, thank you for the added clarification, and letting me know you were not offended by my posts. .... Nothing I said had any " ill will " hiding in a corner ...... If your now satisfied with your set-up ....I'm happy ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

So, Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fitted today.

After a shortish test run, I have now achieved my goal of clearing humps/lumps/bumps in the middle of the road, and am not so affected by potholes.

Facts -
The tyres have lifted the front underbody by 10mm.
The tyres have not altered the Speedo despite the taller aspect ……still showing 60kph while GPS shows 59kph…..this is the same as the Kenda Kanines 165/55.
Auto tyre dealerships can indeed balance tyres on the small Spyder tyre hub.
Along with the preload adjustment, the front end underbody of the Spyder is now 15mm higher than stock, and I experienced no scraping in my short test run.

Feelings -
The Goodyears at 18psi run much more smoothly over pockmarked roads than the Kanines.
The Spyder feels like it is handling/cornering more comfortably (first noticed with just the preload).

Thanks for all the feedback :2thumbs:

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I could wrong ( yes, it has happened :yikes::roflblack: ) but I'm pretty sure the speedo is attached to the rear wheel...... and because you were looking for ground clearance why did you decide a " 60 " aspect ratio would be best ?????, a " 65 " tire is slightly taller ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

I could wrong ( yes, it has happened :yikes::roflblack: ) but I'm pretty sure the speedo is attached to the rear wheel...... and because you were looking for ground clearance why did you decide a " 60 " aspect ratio would be best ?????, a " 65 " tire is slightly taller ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

The Kendas are 165/55, Mike. The 165/60 gave me an extra 10mm. I didn’t want to go too much taller than that anyway. Plus, we have very limited stock in 165 tyres at the best of times :thumbup:

Pete