Proper Oil Level Verification Procedure on 1330-engined Spyders

[Marker]

Thanks BRP Care !

Thanks BRP Care for your clearing up the oil dilemma. Great Information !
Please keep giving us tips and tricks !

 

[Questions]

Oil amount change

Steve,
Your posts have always been welcome.
I recently changed the oil and filter on my ride with the BRP kit and added the 5 US qts that you recommended.
I do this so I will know my machine and because I enjoy the experience and like saving some bucks. And I did save $ on the service check because they did not have to charge the labor. Thank goodness I do not have to make a living wrenching. I would starve because I am so slow.

I took the RT to the dealer yesterday for the 3000 check and they added oil because it was low they said. The service writer was not interesting in me emailing your post to them because they only go by the manual.

So now, I am confused. Is there a change to the manual that this dealership has not received or has not posted to their manual? I would be willing to walk that piece of paper into the service department.
Thanks
Steve S

sscheuer47, there was a bulletin or TST that BRP sent out to dealers on the change in quantity. They should have been aware of it.

 

[jaapkroes]

Sensor

I agree that the oil level check on the Spyder is way more complicated than it ought to be. This includes both engine models 990 series and 1330. Mine is a 2010 RTS SM5. It is my understanding, as a new Spyder owner, that the 990 v-twin uses some oil by design. But when I checked the oil level per manual instructions the level still showed to the full mark after I put on about 1000 miles. This leads me to conclude that either my bike uses no oil......or the bike was overfilled when the dealer serviced the bike before I bought it......or I didn't do the procedure right.

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

 

[Bob Denman]

It's actually nowhere near as tough or complicated as you say it is: it's just different!
Once you've done it a couple of times; it'll seem perfectly natural! :thumbup:

 

[Highwayman2013]

I agree that the oil level check on the Spyder is way more complicated than it ought to be. This includes both engine models 990 series and 1330. Mine is a 2010 RTS SM5. It is my understanding, as a new Spyder owner, that the 990 v-twin uses some oil by design. But when I checked the oil level per manual instructions the level still showed to the full mark after I put on about 1000 miles. This leads me to conclude that either my bike uses no oil......or the bike was overfilled when the dealer serviced the bike before I bought it......or I didn't do the procedure right.

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

It's really not that complicated. Either engine, go for a ride and when you get home park on the level and let the bike idle while you remove your gear. Shut it off, get a rag and check it.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I have 2 Spyders with the 1330, one with 44k and the other with 13k, and neither have ever used a drop of oil.
I drain the oil and change the filter then add 5 qts of oil and don't worry about it.

 

[jcthorne]

The oil level check procedure is nearly exactly the same as every other dry sump engine I have ever owned, car or bike. BRP has done nothing really different here. Its the nature of the beast.

 

[Bob Denman]

JC,
Could you explain the reasoning behind letting the bike idle for about a half a minute; before checking the oil level?

 

[jcthorne]

Dry sump engines do not keep the oil in the bottom of the crankcase while running. The oil is pumped out to an outboard tank. When the engines stops, the oil already in the engine does drain down to the crankcase, and some eventually finds its way back as the engine cools. Its not in the tank until you start it back up. Running the engine also warms the oil which expands at it heats.

Allowing the engine to warm and then shutting it down, check oil level within 60 seconds while the oil level is still where it was while running.

 

[Firefly]

I

Since EVERYTHING is computerized on this wonderful machine, why not an oil level sensor to let us know in real time that the level is in the safe zone. When it's a quart low, an "Add Oil" message is displayed. This way there will be no need to pull off a tupperware panel, no dip stick to unscrew, no dip stick o-ring to lose, no time frame to stay within, etc.

Just a thought and probably completely unhelpful.

I too wonder why ALL new vehicles don't have electronic oil level sensors, but my guess is so they can keep the blame on the owner should the engine run dry instead of trusting their sensor.

Another nice thing about the Tesla..... no oil checks needed.... ;-)

 

[Bob Denman]

If they're going to make the bike that much more complicated: why not just include a Technician with each purchase? :banghead:

And a driver also!

 

[wmh9680]

And a paaenger also. Then I could buy a new F# and ride with them. Mike

 

[Saluda]

If you look at what the industry is doing I can understand his comment. Tire sensors to monitor air pressure and the latest I heard really makes me wonder. A sensor for the back seat to remind you if you left someone in the car. Think about that one.

 

[UtahPete]

Thanks for posting this. I had no idea ... good thing the 1330 is a relatively tight engine in that regard.

 

[Blacklab1059]

Yes! Well... maybe...

Is there any internal combustion engine powered machine out there with a more complicated procedure to do such a normally simple task as checking the engine oil level?

I recently purchased a 2017 F150 with a 2.9 liter twin turbo charged engine. You have to wait 10 minutes after shutting the engine down to get an accurate oil level reading.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I recently purchased a 2017 F150 with a 2.9 liter twin turbo charged engine. You have to wait 10 minutes after shutting the engine down to get an accurate oil level reading.

That is likely cos it's NOT a dry sump engine like our Spyders - so when the F150 engine is running some of the oil is pumped out of the sump & circulating thru the twin turbo's & other bits, doing what oil needs to do in all those other places it's needed... So it takes that 10 min or so of sitting time to allow all the oil to slooowly drain back into the sump before you can get an accurate reading from the oil level in the sump! If you check the level too early & top up with oil based on an erroneously low reading, you can end up with too much oil in the sump which can mean all sorts of nasty & engine destroying things might occur - things like the pistons hitting the virtually solid 'too high' oil pool surface/level at high velocity, or possibly even forcing oil up past the rings etc & filling the combustion chamber with non-compressible oil just before the engine tries to compress it!! Too much oil can do really nasty things to an engine, especially in a fairly high tech/fine tolerance engine that doesn't normally use much!! And that's even before you consider the risks posed by 'burnable quantities' of oil being forced past turbo shaft seals & ending up getting pumped into the combustion chamber with the charge air!! THAT can do REALLY NASTY stuff to a turbo'ed engine - like pistons hanging out the side of the block nasty... & that's only IF you are that lucky & the shattered lumps of metal leaving the block at high velocity haven't done much worse damage!! :shocked:

The 10 min idle down on our 'dry sump' Spyders is to let the various scavenge pumps put all the oil back where it's meant to be in the reservoir tank rather than having it settling in the sump or still caught up elsewhere in the works - while the 10 min wait after engine shut down on the 'wet sump' F150 is so the oil has enough time to properly drain back down into the sump where it's meant to be rather than having it caught up elsewhere in the works. Both methods are required simply due to the nature & design of that particular engine's oil storage & oil circulation systems - the different methods of storage & circulation used necessitate different level checking techniques! Both methods are aimed at making sure you have the correct volume of oil in your engine - significantly wrong volumes of oil can mean either excessive wear due to lack of lubrication/cooling (too little oil) or engine damage/destruction due to excessive non-compressible fluid being forced into spaces it shouldn't go in that quantity (too much oil)!

It's simple really, even if it's sometimes a bit more complex to get the levels correct than you might like.

 

[rcturner]

If you look at what the industry is doing I can understand his comment. Tire sensors to monitor air pressure and the latest I heard really makes me wonder. A sensor for the back seat to remind you if you left someone in the car. Think about that one.

There is only one reason that the industry does things like this. It is the brain dead operator who doesn't check his tires or remember he has a kid in the back seat. Don't blame the industry for these things. It is an operator issue.

 

[Saluda]

I blamed someone ???

 

[Wildrice]

Hi everyone,
There have been some questions on the right way for checking your oil on the 1330 engine. Below is the correct procedure:

Given the oil system design of the 1330 engine, oil level verification must be done under specific conditions which can influence the quantity of measurable oil in the engine.

These conditions are:

• Engine oil temperature must be between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F) which is considered as being the engine's normal operating temperature. Don't mistake coolant temperature for engine oil temperature! Coolant will heat up faster than the engine oil.
• Engine oil temperature is crucial since its volume changes based on temperature; that's enough to affect the measurable level.
• Engine must idle 10 minutes. The 1330 engine is a dry sump design with 3 scavenge pumps and 1 pressure pump, 10 minutes of idle time allows the scavenge pumps to stabilize the quantity of oil returned.

Complete oil level verification procedure:

1. Bring engine to operating temperature.
2. Ensure vehicle is on a level surface.
3. Allow engine to idle for 10 minutes.
4. Stop the engine.
5. Within 2 minutes of stopping the engine:
   1. Remove and wipe the dipstick clean.
   2. Insert dipstick and completely screw it in.
   3. Remove dipstick and read oil level on dipstick.
6. Adjust level as necessary without overfilling.

Tips and Tricks:

Here are 2 ways the crucial criteria can be reached:

• An engine started cold (20°C or 68°F) will take approximately 25 minutes to reach oil level verification criteria (oil temperature and idle time). Oil level can be reliably verified when the radiator fans have cycled ON twice,

or

• The unit can be taken on a 15 km (9 mile) drive (normal riding) or a 6 km (4 mile) drive in 1st gear at 50 km/h (30 mph) which is approx at 4400 rpm THEN idled until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice.

When performing an oil change on a cold engine, the above recommendations must be done to reach oil level verification criteria. When performing an oil change on a hot engine, the new oil will heat up faster since the engine is hot therefore letting the engine idle until 10 minutes or until the radiator fans have cycled ON twice indicates the oil level can be verified.
We thus recommend checking the oil level at the end of a decent ride following the complete oil level verification procedure as outlined above.
​

Nice procedure write up, however I have tried it & just riding & waiting 60 sc after shut down & found the levels identical--55 yrs of checking oil level, while the write up procedure is well done--I find it silly...
Darrell

 

[bluep]

Oil level

This 10 min. Idle is bull!! You just got through ridding several miles. What do you think those scavenging pumps were doing if not keeping the oil level correct?
By the time you stop and shut off the motor ,the oil is all where its supposed to be! Just check it!!