Power Steering Fuses

[NancysToy]

May not be that bad... remember initially, quite a few folks went months and months without DPS and didn't know it!
But then I haven't had either update done and probably won't. ("...if it ain't broke...") unless I have a problem.

I think you could handle the beast without the DPS, but it would be a struggle to ride safely without any electronics at all, as was the original question.

 

[C3517C]

Steering probs / disconnect.

I've had nothing but steering probs ever since I got the first update. But here's a new twist. The last time I went out I was with a group of Spyder riders that included a mechanic from the dealership. My steering locked up and I had to "pop" it out of the locked position to stay on the road. (again) Everyone saw my bike shoot out of lane and we pulled over for a roadside assessment. The mechanic disabled the DPS by pulling the fuse, but that made the engine run very rough and stall. I don't know why. So instead of the fuse, he disconnected the power steering from somewhere else on the inside of the bike. Sorry to say I don't know exactly what he did, but the "check DPS" started scrolling across my screen.
I got back on the highway and yup, it happened again. Impossible you say , I would have said the same before I felt it myself. The only difference is that when I popped it out of the locked position, it didn't over correct as much because I didn't have the power sterring to help swing it over. Its now in the shop getting the entire DPS unit changed. This is the 3rd attempt to fix it.
Get those thinking caps on, this could be a clue. This was a unusual set of circumstances that may offer some insight. :chat:

 

[NancysToy]

I've had nothing but steering probs ever since I got the first update. But here's a new twist. The last time I went out I was with a group of Spyder riders that included a mechanic from the dealership. My steering locked up and I had to "pop" it out of the locked position to stay on the road. (again) Everyone saw my bike shoot out of lane and we pulled over for a roadside assessment. The mechanic disabled the DPS by pulling the fuse, but that made the engine run very rough and stall. I don't know why. So instead of the fuse, he disconnected the power steering from somewhere else on the inside of the bike. Sorry to say I don't know exactly what he did, but the "check DPS" started scrolling across my screen.
I got back on the highway and yup, it happened again. Impossible you say , I would have said the same before I felt it myself. The only difference is that when I popped it out of the locked position, it didn't over correct as much because I didn't have the power sterring to help swing it over. Its now in the shop getting the entire DPS unit changed. This is the 3rd attempt to fix it.
Get those thinking caps on, this could be a clue. This was a unusual set of circumstances that may offer some insight. :chat:

If the problem also occurred when the DPS was disabled, it may be a VCM problem. I think your VSS is acting up and causing directional changes or what is perceived as locking, and the power steering merely makes it worse...or doubles the fun. Problems like this can be caused by bad sensors elsewhere (like the GPS) sending noise along the CANBUS, or by corroded wiring or short circuits.

 

[Batmobile]

I had intermittant powersteering issues after the first update. I would get the periodic check dps scrolling and the loss of powersteering. As others have said a low speeds it requires quite a bit of effort to steer but at highway speeds you really can't tell a difference. I took it to my dealer and BRP had them replace the DPS unit. BRP's tech told my mechanic that one out of every four spyders that had the update were needing the DPS replaced. That was over a month ago. Maybe some of you are in the 25% like I was and need a new DPS. If the percentage stayed consistent and there are around 15,000 spyders out there, thats potentially 3,750 spyders with bad DPS's and 11,250 without problems. The odds are in your favor not to have a problem :thumbup:.

I haven't had the second update yet because I only need a couple hundred more miles to reach 6,000 so I was going to get it done with the service. I still have surging every once in a while but nothing like it was.

 

[Roaddog2]

Here's my take on the pulling of the fuses.

If ANYTHING goes wrong while the fuses are pulled you can bet it will be blamed on your "disabling of this safety system" that will be touted as the cause. Quite frankly they might be right and inasmuch this would cloud the whole "whio is responsiable" thing and put it back on you for sure.

However, if there is a problem running the system as BRP designed, updated, and sold the Spyder with, then it becomes their liability 100% if their system fails and causes you a problem.

Although taking the fuses out might seem like a good idea to some. With all that is going on about this topic right now, the last thing I would want to do is take the libility off BRP and put it back on myself by doing something like this.

IMHO, if you really are worried call your State DMV or the Highway Safety Board and file a complaint, but don't take the libility from BRP and put it on yourself.

MM

:agree::agree:I just don't want to hit a tree nojoke a couple of hundred miles since update no steering issues.But my :spyder:has always been real firm with stearing I feel it go on when almost still or turning stoped but once I'm moving it has always been real tight and have to work at it wich I kind of like :ani29:

 

[Smylinacha]

:yikes::yikes::yikes: Technology overload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they just need to get rid of the VSS and make it like a "normal" bike - we control it, not the computers.

If the problem also occurred when the DPS was disabled, it may be a VCM problem. I think your VSS is acting up and causing directional changes or what is perceived as locking, and the power steering merely makes it worse...or doubles the fun. Problems like this can be caused by bad sensors elsewhere (like the GPS) sending noise along the CANBUS, or by corroded wiring or short circuits.

 

[Smylinacha]

:2thumbs: I like that - I agree I agree I just don't wanna hit a tree!

:agree::agree:I just don't want to hit a tree nojoke a couple of hundred miles since update no steering issues.But my :spyder:has always been real firm with stearing I feel it go on when almost still or turning stoped but once I'm moving it has always been real tight and have to work at it wich I kind of like :ani29:

 

[Latemarch]

When the pitch is altered, the DPS seems to interpret that info as steering input and then I fight myself fighting it to maintain my path.

Interesting.....In my daily commute I have one turn that consistantly gives me trouble unless I take it real, real slow.
It's a hard right hand to a steep uphill and the whole turn is off camber. Almost everytime I get a brief wiggle of the steering typically in the middle of the turn. I'm sure that the VSS probably has trouble interpreting those imputs . It's nothing dangerous but you can feel the bike "doing" something. I think that I'm going to have to try a ride into work without the DPS and see how it goes.
Though, all in all, I'm pretty pleased with how the machine handles in almost all other situations.

 

[krb1945]

Are the electrical cables...

that go to the sensors and control units shielded? Many years ago, during the 70s, the truck industry started using computerized brakes on the steering wheels. Prior to that era there were no brakes on the front wheels of semi trucks. They were not using shielded signal cables and they had a problem with electronic signals emanating from shopping center automatic doors and from CB radios. These signals would sometimes cause the brakes to lock up and other times the brakes would not work at all. There were some major traffic incidents, wrecks with fatalities, during that time that were traced to computer controlled brake failures due to outside interference.

Also you probably saw a computer controlled, fly by wire, Airbus A300 on the news that could not land or take off because of software programming... so it tried to fly through the forest... and it was successful for a short distance. This problem was traced directly to software programming.

If we keep informing the dealers and BRP exactly what occurred, when and where and under what conditions they will have enough data to trace it and repair the problem.

 

[NancysToy]

Interesting.....In my daily commute I have one turn that consistently gives me trouble unless I take it real, real slow.
It's a hard right hand to a steep uphill and the whole turn is off camber. Almost every time I get a brief wiggle of the steering typically in the middle of the turn. I'm sure that the VSS probably has trouble interpreting those inputs . It's nothing dangerous but you can feel the bike "doing" something. I think that I'm going to have to try a ride into work without the DPS and see how it goes.
Though, all in all, I'm pretty pleased with how the machine handles in almost all other situations.

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

 

[docdoru]

It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out.

:agree: Replacing my GPS cured the steering issues. :thumbup:

 

[jabba11]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

I have a section of road daily that is like that too. It involves a steep hill with a high camber that wanders in th elane. The bike has a hard time trying to figure out what is happening. The bike subsequently wanders some on the road but with minor corrective input it stays well within my lane.

 

[Latemarch]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

I agree that it's not a steering issue. Nick just noted that his corners were smoother without the DPS and so I just wondered if mine might not improve without it as well.
Since I have a turn that I can reproduce the issue I just figured I'd give it a try. It's got a long sightline and there's only occasionally traffic there so it shouldn't be too much risk. First it's going to have to stop raining as a lowered friction would surely throw another variable in that I don't need.
Besides I feel like it would be a good idea to drive it once without the DPS just in case I'm far from home and have the steering gremlin attack I can unplug and know what I'm in for while I'm on my way back to the dealer.

 

[Firefly]

I have experienced exactly this same phenomenon. It is not a steering issue, but actually a VSS anomaly that requires a lot of steering input in order to stay in your lane, and often results in over-correction when the VSS kicks back out. It is difficult for even an experienced rider. There are all kinds of roads out there, and I don't know if the programming can be tweaked to be able to handle every possible combination. I have responded by taking that particular corner in a slightly different manner...and a lot slower. I also forewarned my wife, so she could be prepared for the possibility. Disabling the DPS to make up for a VSS characteristic could just make the situation worse. It is hard enough to fight the brakes with the power steering working. I think awareness is the best answer, but it is possible that BRP could study the VSS programming to see if fine tuning would be of benefit.

Very interesting topic. I can't say that I've ever noticed this phenomenon. So can you reproduce it on a regular basis (not that you want to) ??

Where is the curve and what speed will cause this to happen?--- I would be interested to see if there is a difference between how our bikes react. I could go do a few runs of it and see if mine does it or not.

I've got twisties out near my house (not far from the zoo and golf course) that I hit pretty hard and don't have any problems --- but they might not have the camber that 'your' curve has on it.

I would have thought riding the dragon I would have seen every combination of curve and camber-----:dontknow:-- but I never had any problems while riding it.

 

[BRPjunkie]

Firefly,

Did you ever do the test run with just the 5 amp fuse pulled to see if "killing the DPS brain, kills the DPS muscle (motor)? :dontknow:

 

[Neez]

There is a paved farm backroad near to my home that has an extreme camber along it's whole length and a few tight turns. I used to enjoy this road with my 2 wheeled bikes, but the spyder does not seem to handle it well. As it happens, there is good visibility, due to the farm fields, and very little traffic, so I have been coping by staddling the hump. One front wheel in each lane is pretty dubious practice, I know, but the spyder is so twitchy here that it wears me out. I use 20 psi on the front tires and the shocks are set at max and, on most road surfaces, I have no problem. Mostly, I've been avoiding this road lately.

 

[NancysToy]

There is a paved farm backroad near to my home that has an extreme camber along it's whole length and a few tight turns. I used to enjoy this road with my 2 wheeled bikes, but the spyder does not seem to handle it well. As it happens, there is good visibility, due to the farm fields, and very little traffic, so I have been coping by staddling the hump. One front wheel in each lane is pretty dubious practice, I know, but the spyder is so twitchy here that it wears me out. I use 20 psi on the front tires and the shocks are set at max and, on most road surfaces, I have no problem. Mostly, I've been avoiding this road lately.

I think that is a quirk associated with the VSS. I'm not sure there is a good cure, other than learning to live with it...and being aware so you can handle the situation. Sensors that were bad or out of calibration could make the Spyder more reactive in this situation, or cause the effects ith less of a slope. Just my opinion...not supported by anything but the air in my head!

 

[RoadHammer]

Last time i checked my brain came prewired with antirollover technology.

:yikes::yikes::yikes: Technology overload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they just need to get rid of the VSS and make it like a "normal" bike - we control it, not the computers.

 

[3wheeldemon]

Last time i checked my brain came prewired with antirollover technology.

I was going to give you an :agree:but then remembered that I have laid down bikes three times in my lifepps:pps:pps:

3WD

 

[Yellow Spydeer]

If I overstep my bounds as a newbie please forgive me.

yup, so for anyone reading this, let it be clear that if you pull your fuses, you are doing it on your own. I'm not endorsing nor supporting, only sharing my experiences.

I can also share with you that I have signed off on blaming anyone. My lack of active DPS has been recognized at the dealer and documented to have been done by my own decision.



The update clearly enabled the scrolling message. I logged over 60k miles with both fuses removed before that update was applied and had no scrolling or engine lights.

It's a tough subject because it's one of those issues that is not 100% clear. For the most part the DPS works, I'm just not comfortable with those few times when it gives me an unexpected response. I gave it another go for about 5k miles after the update and I still don't trust it. So know I'm back to riding with it disabled by pulling the fuses.

I feel tremendously more stable on the road and I can prove it to myself because I ride the same roads, 5 days a week commuting. The DPS makes me twitchy and erratic entering and exiting curves. With it disabled I go in smooth and come out steady. The DPS also seems to react to pitch and yaw of the road in a manner that makes me uncomfortable.

When the pitch is altered, the DPS seems to interpret that info as steering input and then I fight myself fighting it to maintain my path.


I found a 1/4 mile or so stretch of road where this can be replicated. With the fuses pulled, I go straight through with no issues.
With the fuses in, I fight to keep myself straight and in my lane. So that was all I needed and now the fuses will continue to stay out.



if you're in the tri state area, this is it;
http://maps.google.com
I come south from the HH Bridge and merge with traffic coming of the GW.
That strip that is highlighted has a pitch that drops to the right lane. By going from the middle to the right, you feel it. This is where the DPS will consistently get involved when all I want to do is maintain my lane. Instead of maintaining a clean path on a very, very slight curve I have to fight it.
With the fuses pulled, I push through there with no effort at all.

From Yellow Spydeer,

I got a letter from Can Am stating my steering box had a recall. I have a 2008 GS (I knew so little I don't even know if they made a RS yet) and it was 2011 when I got the letter, in a different state! I was put on a list of 17 ahead of me, so I waited about 2 months. The local dealership called me and said my number was up, along with the brake recall and took it in. They replaced the steering unit and redid all three of the disk pads for $75.00 which I thought was cheap. The bike is rock steady and the steering is way lighter than the original steering box. I bought the bike in Chicago and now live in St Louis, MO where I got it fixed. No steering surprises and stops quiet as a mouse. I hope this helps. Does anyone in the St Louis, MO area ride a Spyder? I can't find a soul to ride with.


Keep the rubber side down..