Potential Buyer - Time to Stay Clear of a Spyder

[Firefly]

A quick look at some (perhaps flawed) logic:

NHTSA states that there are 69.33 motorcycle fatalities per 100,000 registered bikes per year or about 0.7 per thousand / year - 0.07%.

I don't know how many Spyders BRP has sold to date, but they recalled approximately 10,000 for the steering software update, so I'm going to use that number as my baseline. If the number is higher, then the stat goes down... so this would be worst case anyway.

10,000 Spyders on the road and up to 7 fires reported (maybe less) over TWO years equates to 0.35 per thousand / year or 0.035%.

From this loose interpretation, I'm twice as likely to be killed riding my bike as my bike is to catch on fire. Seems to me like I should be a LOT more worried about the fatality statistic vs. fire!

Conversly, from the National Lightning Safety Institute, I have a 1 in 280,000 (.00035%) chace of being struck by lightning in any given year... so I'm only 1000 times less likely to be hit by lightning than my Spyder is to catch on fire. Think I'll walk around with a long steel rod on rainy days to improve the odds; OR if i attach a long steel rod to my Spyder and ride around on nasty rainy days, do I increase the odds of BOTH lightning strike AND Spyder fire?

NOW, what can I do to improve my odds of winning the Lotto?

Your math and thinking is correct--- but there are problems pertaining to assumptions.

1. There are 14,000+ Spyders on the road.
2. We only know of 6 or 7 fires.
3. These are only the fires we have heard about out here.

Since this site has 3,000 members--- and I don't think that equates to 3,000 Spyders as many don't own or are not active, etc. I would assume there are 2,000-2,500 actual Spyders owned on this site.

So on one end you could look at this as 7 fires out of 2,500--- and on the other would be 7 out of 14,000. If the 7 out of 2,500 were extrapolated you could have as many as 40 fires out of 14,000.The truth is somewhere in between I'm sure.

Another way to look at it would be:

On the high end (7/2500) = 1 out of every 357 Spyders
One the low end(7/14,000) = 1 out of every 2,000 Spyders

Quite a difference - but I really doubt there has been another 33 fires that we have not heard of.....

___________________________

I sent a letter and photos of 5 of the fires to BRP on 7/28/09. I don't think the other 2 posted fires - but they both sounded legit when posted out here.

Here is the response I just got on 08/21/09:

Greetings Mr. Egan,

I would like to thank you for taking the time to communicating with BRP and inform you that the pictures that you were kind enough to gather and send to us were forwarded to the BRP investigation team.

If you need further information or have concerns with your Can-Am[FONT=Arial (W1)][FONT=Arial (W1)]TM[/FONT][/FONT] Spyder[FONT=Arial (W1)][FONT=Arial (W1)]TM[/FONT][/FONT] roadster, please do not hesitate to call and ask for Carlo or email to this address.

Once again, thank you for your feedback and for your support of the Can-Am Spyder roadster.

Carlo
Spyder Web Representative
Consumer Services Group
BRP
J 715-848-4957 USA / 819-566-3366 Canada
L 819-566-3062
[email protected]

_________________________________

So I'm glad to know they ARE fully aware of the potential problem.

Still a bit miffed as to why some of these owners have not filed reports with the NHTSA---- which is far different than just letting BRP know. Filing an official report gives you LEGAL bite behind your bark.

 

[QuadManiac]

I would guess that if there were additional fires, at least some of our members would have heard about it through one means or another (as was the case with today's post related to an accident in Australia) and would report it here. If we assume that some fires got by without detection by our relatively large and expansive membership, then perhaps doubling the number of estimated fires would be a reasonable engineering assumption.

Taken that, 14 fires with 14,000 Spyders on the road over a two year period equates to 0.5 per 1000 per year or 0.05% - STILL lower than the average fatality statistic.

BBL, I'm gonna go buy a Lotto ticket.

 

[zzneonzz]

Your math and thinking is correct--- but there are problems pertaining to assumptions.

1. There are 14,000+ Spyders on the road.
2. We only know of 6 or 7 fires.
3. These are only the fires we have heard about out here.

Since this site has 3,000 members--- and I don't think that equates to 3,000 Spyders as many don't own or are not active, etc. I would assume there are 2,000-2,500 actual Spyders owned on this site.

So on one end you could look at this as 7 fires out of 2,500--- and on the other would be 7 out of 14,000. If the 7 out of 2,500 were extrapolated you could have as many as 40 fires out of 14,000.The truth is somewhere in between I'm sure.

Another way to look at it would be:

On the high end (7/2500) = 1 out of every 357 Spyders
One the low end(7/14,000) = 1 out of every 2,000 Spyders

Quite a difference - but I really doubt there has been another 33 fires that we have not heard of.....

___________________________

I sent a letter and photos of 5 of the fires to BRP on 7/28/09. I don't think the other 2 posted fires - but they both sounded legit when posted out here.

Here is the response I just got on 08/21/09:

Greetings Mr. Egan,

I would like to thank you for taking the time to communicating with BRP and inform you that the pictures that you were kind enough to gather and send to us were forwarded to the BRP investigation team.

If you need further information or have concerns with your Can-Am[FONT=Arial (W1)][FONT=Arial (W1)]TM[/FONT][/FONT] Spyder[FONT=Arial (W1)][FONT=Arial (W1)]TM[/FONT][/FONT] roadster, please do not hesitate to call and ask for Carlo or email to this address.

Once again, thank you for your feedback and for your support of the Can-Am Spyder roadster.

Carlo
Spyder Web Representative
Consumer Services Group
BRP
J 715-848-4957 USA / 819-566-3366 Canada
L 819-566-3062
[email protected]

_________________________________

So I'm glad to know they ARE fully aware of the potential problem.

Still a bit miffed as to why some of these owners have not filed reports with the NHTSA---- which is far different than just letting BRP know. Filing an official report gives you LEGAL bite behind your bark.

Actually if you go by the figures ANY company is going to go by then his numbers are actually on the high side. Manufactures are NOT going to go off of forums they are going to base the numbers on what has actually been reported and as many have pointed out only 2 of the fires have been reported out of your 14k number so that makes it even less likely to happen.

Regardless you can :bdh: all you want until someone can tell the exact cause of every spyder fire out there i'm going to continue to enjoy the ride and not worry about the small odds of my spyder catching fire. Its a lot less stressful and i have insurance that will cover the damage if it does happen ot catch fire.

 

[BeRight]

I would guess that if there were additional fires, at least some of our members would have heard about it through one means or another (as was the case with today's post related to an accident in Australia) and would report it here. If we assume that some fires got by without detection by our relatively large and expansive membership, then perhaps doubling the number of estimated fires would be a reasonable engineering assumption.

Taken that, 14 fires with 14,000 Spyders on the road over a two year period equates to 0.5 per 1000 per year or 0.05% - STILL lower than the average fatality statistic.

BBL, I'm gonna go buy a Lotto ticket.

You convinced me - Maryland Mega-lotto tomorrow night draw is huge - off I go the get some tickets

 

[bone crusher]

I would guess that if there were additional fires, at least some of our members would have heard about it through one means or another (as was the case with today's post related to an accident in Australia) and would report it here. If we assume that some fires got by without detection by our relatively large and expansive membership, then perhaps doubling the number of estimated fires would be a reasonable engineering assumption.

Taken that, 14 fires with 14,000 Spyders on the road over a two year period equates to 0.5 per 1000 per year or 0.05% - STILL lower than the average fatality statistic.

BBL, I'm gonna go buy a Lotto ticket.

Your numbers are fine. Only 2 reported cases to the NHTSA. Everything else is here-say until proven otherwise.

As far as the lottery goes...you have a 1 in 175+ million chance in winning the Mega Millions...so, your odds of getting burnt to a crisp are far greater than winning the Mega Millions...

 

[NancysToy]

Let's change the subject. Years ago, my 305 Honda caught fire. What are the odds of that? :joke: OK, what are the odds that I would have been wearing my nomex fire gloves (which I was), so I was able to shut off the fuel? :joke: Now, what are the odds that I was crazy enough to bring it up here to lighten things up? :joke:

 

[Smylinacha]

offtopic:

I think you can purchase GAP insurance with your loan. Not sure if you can add it to your loan afterwards.

GAP covers the difference between your insurance payout and the balance on the loan. It's usually not too expensive.

My wife and I are buying 2 spyders this week to take advantage of some of the August promotions, thanks for reminding me to ask about GAP

Geico wouldn't do it for me but I can ask my credit union where I got the loan I think?

 

[Smylinacha]

I don't think that guy was a troll and I think some of you were DOWNRIGHT FREAKIN NASTY to him. Ya know, I like my Spyder but I do have concerns over what's been going on... fires, bad downloads and recalls, brp not saying much about nothin but you just wrote this dude off as a troll, maybe he really was looking to buy a Spyder and instead of saying -it's a cool machine, you guys pretty much called him a jerk in so many sarcastic, typical dude type lingo. Just go to Google and type in "Spyder" - THIS IS THE #1 PLACE it takes you so he probably came in here to ask something and y'all just f'd w/ him. I just don't think that was very nice. Kidding around with one another - well fine and good cuz we all know eachother in here and we know who's buttons we can push and who to stay away from but you guys pretty much just jumped all over this guy's a$$.

You all need to go sit in the naughty chair for a while.nojoke:cus:

 

[aka1004]

I had all kinda problems with my spyder BUT

I am still ryding it and love it 22000miles in 8 month and with east coast trip after gatlinburg...

If I get rid of my spyder it will not be because of mechanical problems but because of dealer service. One dealer does not want deal with my problematic spyder anymore (service writer said they loosing money on my spyder because they can only bill brp so much for diagnostic time) other one is more enthsiastic but on my late 12k service they did not do mist of the things on the list after charging me for it. The service manager was a bit apologetic but when confronted head mechanic why his spyder mechanic in training did not do everything on list and can I trust you to do my spyder right next time he got very deffensive and his answer was that I have a choice not to bring my spyder there.

They have basically re did the 12k service after mechanic in training fessed up that he did not do most of things on list but my spyder will not be going there again. It's del Ami motorsports for those who live in this area.

 

[NancysToy]

I don't think that guy was a troll and I think some of you were DOWNRIGHT FREAKIN NASTY to him...................................................................You all need to go sit in the naughty chair for a while.nojoke:cus:

:agree: Thanks for saying so. I thought he was polite, and was surprised at his lack of harsh reaction. You are to be commended for your patience RCB. You may have probed and prodded a little, and I'm sure you were intentionally stirring the pot, but I see no problem with that.

As you can see, we are a dedicated lot, and we love our Spyders, as a whole. I hope that offsets some of your concerns a bit. Hope you take a test ride and seriously consider this fine toy BRP has given us. It is worth a little pain and uncertainty!

 

[Tom in NM]

tell me more . . . .

I don't think that guy was a troll and I think some of you were DOWNRIGHT FREAKIN NASTY to him.

ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto,

​

ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto

You all need to go sit in the naughty chair for a while.nojoke:cus:

Sorry, I gotta disagree. Troll. Look at all his/or/her postings. Troll chum, well done - but sounded young, but bait just the same.
For example, explanations were called both "defensive" and "angry", with the added sauce of people would do that to defend their choices. There were no defensive or angry replies. As is typical of this forum, everybody tried to help and share experiences.

They commented they had done lots of research, but thought "BPR" ran this site.

And then their fundamental question really does not make any sense; "Does BPR stand behind the Spyder?" :hun: and the hint was, "Yes is not an answer I will accept."

I think Dudley said it, this smelled from the beginning. If he didn't, I will take credit for thinking it.

Now for the real interesting part, tell me more about that Naughty Chair. You have piqued my interest.

Tom

 

[Smylinacha]

Even if he were a youngster, does that means he's a troll? Young people might not ponder on stuff before they come out and say it. Troll or not - I saw alot of nastiness. I see alot of joking around in here and that is great cuz we need it (badly sometimes) but all the sudden it was like someone sprang a testosterone leak and it became contageous.

Sure we all love our Spyders and seems like some would wanna defend them to their death. I like my Spyder but am no way gonna be brash w/ someone about why he or she really needs to have one. To each his/her own.

Naughty chair is in the corner of my home. You p*ss me off, you go sit in it and can't move until I say so. My son lived many minutes/hours in it. And he grew up to be a decent young man, even when I had to duck tape him to the chair :2thumbs:

Day 3, no cigs and I'm cranky. Sorry.

 

[gazey]

I'm still rydin and I'm still smylin.....:doorag:
There are talkers and there are doers.
So RCB which one are you......
Go out and get your Spyder and just RYDE :thumbup:

 

[northramp]

Where s HDX ? .. On the other side of the house?

 

[BajaRon]

Everyone.....Please check your rear tire and see if yours is defective like mine and Dudley's! Where is that phone number to NHTSA! :helpsmilie:

I have the new upgraded rear tire. It wont wear out. Had it changed during the recall. Didnt you all get the MEMO?[/quote]

No, I didn't get that memo....Probably went to Lamont's house if they sent it UPS!

I never got the kick stand memo or the back up beeper recall either! :yikes:

Now that I think about it...I think I saw 2 kick stands on Lamont's Spyder....One on each side! Hey!!!!:yikes::yikes::yikes:

 

[RCB]

Thanks Smylinacha

I appreciate the input.
I was directed here by my local dealer because I had concerns about this purchase and I guess I should have titled the post
Is it time to stay clear? LOL
But the input has been good in most cases as I campare either buying another motorcycle that my Harley buddies want me to do or try a new ride. I have owned Victory and Honda motorcycles.
I didn't think it would generate so much interest.
When I told my Harley buddies I was looking at a Spyder they had just returned from Sturgis and they siad yeah we saw them there. The word up there was they were calling them Canadaian Snowmoblies.
I did a test ride and it is alot different then my bikes thats for sure.
I did talk to two BRP Reps today and they were nice and aware of the concerns. They said they are investigating the problems that riders have sent them and what they see on sites like this. They did not have many answers but said these were few in number, I expected them to say that that it is there job no matter what company service center you call.
But it was good to get their input. No comments on the 2010 other then to check the web site next week and the news may be up about the 2010 models.

 

[BajaRon]

You know Lamonster must have a real problem, because he's been through 3 rear tires! :yikes:

Why at this rate he's lucky to be alive! :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

MM

Just goes to show that some defects are more defective than others. His Spyder is statistically 3 times more defective than mine! hyea:

Put that in your catch can and smoke it!

 

[Firefly]

Your numbers are fine. Only 2 reported cases to the NHTSA. Everything else is here-say until proven otherwise.

As far as the lottery goes...you have a 1 in 175+ million chance in winning the Mega Millions...so, your odds of getting burnt to a crisp are far greater than winning the Mega Millions...

Yup--- I knew there was one more point I wanted to make on my post--- and that was that as far as BRP is 'officially concerned--- there have only been 2 fires.

Also - as with the steering issues - BRP *may* take the stance of these problems being operator-induced----- which may or may not be the case.
____

 

[Firefly]

Sorry, I gotta disagree. Troll. Look at all his/or/her postings. Troll chum, well done - but sounded young, but bait just the same.
For example, explanations were called both "defensive" and "angry", with the added sauce of people would do that to defend their choices. There were no defensive or angry replies. As is typical of this forum, everybody tried to help and share experiences.

They commented they had done lots of research, but thought "BPR" ran this site.

And then their fundamental question really does not make any sense; "Does BPR stand behind the Spyder?" :hun: and the hint was, "Yes is not an answer I will accept."

I think Dudley said it, this smelled from the beginning. If he didn't, I will take credit for thinking it.

Now for the real interesting part, tell me more about that Naughty Chair. You have peaked my interest.

Tom

Sorry, but I agree with Smylinacha.... and some of the replies from members out here WERE angry. RDB seems to have the patience of Job - most other people would have left or got really upset.

If he ends up being a troll - then so be it. You do know they love to have people call them out as being a troll and then work the crowd from there....

Just say'n.

 

[bjt]

me, firefly, Scotty, BRPJunkie, Someguy, Rando and many others are trolls according to U.P. folks. We all live under the bridge.