Performance mods or scrap F3-S?

[EricP]

It's Cultural - But Internet-Troll Culture

Yes maybe its a language thing or a cultural thing..I don't know.
For me English isn't my first language so i have to adapt a bit when posting on forums like this but i hope i express myself well enough to make myself understood.

I'm a natural-born American, living in the South East portion of the continental US (one state up from Florida).
I can, with a high level of confidence, say that it's cultural, but not nationality related, but rather internet-based (without borders).

Both of you are very affluent with your English - When I first read this thread (being revived recently and my first seeing it) my take on the OP and first few comments were that the first few commenting individuals were likely die-hard fans of the Spyder, frequently read or commented on the forum, and had likely seen (over some time) lots of new people coming into the forums and asking the same type of question. Likely they are fans of the Spyder (aren't we all?; isn't that why we're here?) and quickly became irritated from another "noob" asking "the same questions."

I have no idea who the people are and if the above is true, but that's often what I see sparks that kind of harsh / abrupt rudeness on forums - pride being hurt or preference being criticized.
I wouldn't think of it as all Americans, however - I tend to try to be civil and cordial and welcoming of all colors, creeds, preferences, and education.
I also just look at it as Forums Require Thick Skin (because of my above assessments).

I'm glad this question was asked, because while I am happy with my new (to me) Spyder, I too seek performance upgrades beyond what BRP provides. :thumbup:
Be patient with the trolls, and welcome (not like I've been here much - I think this might be my first post here) to the community.

 

[den1953]

Dynojet has a new thing called a PVCX that can be custom tuned and From what I have seen over at the Indian Motorcycle forum there is a lot more power lurking in the stock engine. Recently Fuel Moto, a tuning outfit that sells the PVCX, did a dyno run on a stock Scout Sixty then one of the same bike with a slip-on aftermarket exhaust (mufflers) and a low restriction air intake with a tuned PVCX and got a very healthy 21 horsepower increase. If you're looking to up the performance on a computer controlled engine I believe this would be the way to go. That is if you're not selling it.

 

[redrt]

Ok I bought a new 2015 f3-s sm6, and it just doesn't impress me performance wise.
I would be more than happy with a 6th gear with some power but I top Rev my 5th at like 115 mph and shift to 6th and nothing really changes its like the computer stops throttle response. I can't understand how a 1330cc engine is barely faster than a 998cc.
I know it's new but before I wait 3 years for some decent add-ons and I'm not talking a turbo (cost outweighs the performance)
Is there any chance of nanny limiting I couldn't imagine pipes and air intake add that much. I love the torque but I don't like being the slowest "fat kid" (3 up) bike I know I'm not gonna beat the 2 wheels r1 and hyubasas but come on more speed scotty!

Should I just sell it? I do love the comfort and torque. But I can't live with my car going faster

Get a crouch rocket, I had a Yamaha FZ1 180 mph stock show room, not good for long trips but fast.

 

[majorra]

There may be another reason

Im guessing im guilty of that.
I have been trying to get as much info about the Spyder F3 as i can.. First i looked at youtube reviews and there are some but not many about the F3, then i looked at Swedish Spyder forums but that seemed like a really small community so then i stated to look at international forums and found this forum and started reading about the F3.
I read many different treads but then i found this one and i was a bit curious because i have always wondered how come BRP chose to tune down the new Rotax engine when they use it in the Spyder..It seems like that engine is built to handle more and when used in other BRP products it actually does just that.. Maybe they use different cams in the other version and maybe they just use different software for this one.. I mean that happens in the car industry and sometimes it actually makes sense to tune down a engine..Maybe to get better milage or maybe to get a different torque curve.
So what i was expecting when i started reading this thread was answers like if you want better performance you can do this..Or because this version of the new Rotax engine is so much different then the version used in the other BRP product it would be to expensive to tune it..Or there isnt any software tuning for it at this moment but someone is working on it..
That was what i was expecting..You know a community where ppl are helping each others out and sharing information..
So i was quite surprised when there was almost no constructive answers and lots and lots of answers like sell it.
I can understand that a Spyder is not for everyone and that its not fair to compare it to a sportsbike because it is to heavy to be a sportsbike, but still its also not a slow veteran vehicle built for slow cruises.. I mean compared to most cars it has impressive acceleration and there is a tuner market even for cars that are much slower than a spyder... For me thats not very interesting anymore to do the actual tuning.. I done that when i was younger with sportscars and smaller motorbikes and even atvs..And yes its fun but its also expensive and lots of work..So if i buy a Spyder i would probably be very satisfied with the performance it has stock.. But the nerdy tech side of me is still curious about what is out there when it comes to tuning.

So for me its hard to understand why ppl here were so rude to someone who just wanted to know how to get more performance out of his spyder..Yes its a valid point to make that the spyder is not a sportsbike.. But i still think ppl here could have been more helpful to him.

I know ppl in forums sometimes can be a bit more aggressive than ppl are irl because of all the keyboard warriors out there.. But i really hope that the Spyder community in general isn't as defensive and rude as ppl have been on this thread.

Don't forget: this forum is mostly visited by grumpy old farts. Myself included.

 

[Wildrice]

Ok I bought a new 2015 f3-s sm6, and it just doesn't impress me performance wise.
I would be more than happy with a 6th gear with some power but I top Rev my 5th at like 115 mph and shift to 6th and nothing really changes its like the computer stops throttle response. I can't understand how a 1330cc engine is barely faster than a 998cc.
I know it's new but before I wait 3 years for some decent add-ons and I'm not talking a turbo (cost outweighs the performance)
Is there any chance of nanny limiting I couldn't imagine pipes and air intake add that much. I love the torque but I don't like being the slowest "fat kid" (3 up) bike I know I'm not gonna beat the 2 wheels r1 and hyubasas but come on more speed scotty!

Should I just sell it? I do love the comfort and torque. But I can't live with my car going faster

Where were you when I was selling my 530 lb turbo Hayabusa with 344 rwhp & 212 lb of Torque a few months ago?? There are no Spyder rockets--even with a better engine--aerodynamically pushing past 120 mph may have stability issues, crosswinds can be a bitch, plus sometimes the Police don't like it.
Darrell

 

[Samson]

Can't imagine shifting at 115 mph on a Spyder, don't think this bike is designed for this type of riding. get the 2018 Yamaha V-Max. If that doesn't do the trick you need to build your own.

 

[Don'tPanic]

Before Spyder is broken in, Nanny will limit all kinds of performance characteristics of the machine. This includes top speed, torque, acceleration, RPM. This is done automatically with instructions burned into EEPROM chip in the computer.
This way you can't hurt the machine even if you're really trying to.

Once the engine is broken in and you learn how to ride it properly you'll be able to corner it faster than most motorcycles and be quicker than 95% of the cars and cruisers from traffic light to traffic light.

Yes, your dealer was supposed to explain that to you, and no, this machine is not for you if wanted a three-wheeled crotch rocket.

 

[ofdave]

Can't imagine shifting at 115 mph on a Spyder, don't think this bike is designed for this type of riding. get the 2018 Yamaha V-Max. If that doesn't do the trick you need to build your own.

I have a hard time believing 115mph in 5th as was stated in the original post

 

[AllanSpyder]

There are companies in Sweden, Germany, Canada and Australia who can re-map Spyder ECU. I have ridden my re-mapped Spyder 6 months now and it is totally different machine. In low rpm range the torque is quite the same or little bit more than in stock, but from 6000 rmp it will have a steady and strong pull till the redline (stock Spyder runs out of puff after 6000 rpm). It is real blast to ride my Spyder now and hard not to smile while riding. Of course if yo want to go fast you have to also upgrade the tires, shocks, swaybar and brakes to keep up with performance increase.

Allan

 

[Colin]

I have a hard time believing 115mph in 5th as was stated in the original post

I have the same Spyder here in NZ and we have a smaller rear cog than the USA/Canada. I can confirm that
115mph has been reached in 5th gear on mine, then you change to 6th gear and the speed increases very very
slowly up to 119mph. I have done this once, because I was curious, the Spyder was very stable at that speed.
But I cant see myself doing it again

 

[TRLBLZR1]

There are companies in Sweden, Germany, Canada and Australia who can re-map Spyder ECU. I have ridden my re-mapped Spyder 6 months now and it is totally different machine. In low rpm range the torque is quite the same or little bit more than in stock, but from 6000 rmp it will have a steady and strong pull till the redline (stock Spyder runs out of puff after 6000 rpm). It is real blast to ride my Spyder now and hard not to smile while riding. Of course if yo want to go fast you have to also upgrade the tires, shocks, swaybar and brakes to keep up with performance increase.

Allan

Interesting. My stock D-500 SE (2017) displays almost the opposite behavior. Seems a little "under-torqued" ("torque challenged" actually imo lol) down low..... But unlike what I've read many others say about their F3-s models: She really comes alive around 5,000 and is "very spirited"/pulls hard well above 6,000 rpm's. (And I'm thankful for that.)

 

[AllanSpyder]

This is interesting! I haven`t ridden any 2017 models, so my experience is based on my own 2015 Spyder F3 and couple of other Spyders from same year. Maybe BRP have changed something to get better performance in higher rpm range compared to 2015 models.

Allan

Interesting. My stock D-500 SE (2017) displays almost the opposite behavior. Seems a little "under-torqued" ("torque challenged" actually imo lol) down low..... But unlike what I've read many others say about their F3-s models: She really comes alive around 5,000 and is "very spirited"/pulls hard well above 6,000 rpm's. (And I'm thankful for that.)

 

[TRLBLZR1]

This is interesting! I haven`t ridden any 2017 models, so my experience is based on my own 2015 Spyder F3 and couple of other Spyders from same year. Maybe BRP have changed something to get better performance in higher rpm range compared to 2015 models.

Allan

Hi Allan;

Based on things I've read on spyderlovers, I suspect they reprogrammed the 17's. (Maybe the Daytona versions?) I'm thinking this may have been at the expense of slightly reducing low end torque? Kind of makes sense from a "liability" standpoint to do this as the 2017 F3-S models have the ability to disable traction control. (Unfortunately, if this is so: The "feature" to disable traction control essentially ended up being little more than a marketing tool, as real world results are far less than what one would have expected.) Note: I'm thinking the manual transmission version may yield entirely different results. ~ Still glad I went with the SE though. Didn't want a motorcycle, wanted a snowmobile for the highway. And at that, it's the fastest accelerating and best handling "snowmowheel" I've ever driven/sold. (on pavement of course lol)

Funny thing is: People also comment on how poor the stock tires were on the F3's. I don't have a lot of miles on my tires, but they're incredibly sticky and I'm very pleased with both the ride & handling. (Font end is very solid/stiff on mine in the corners, even without any mods like a front end after-market sway bar.)

 

[AllanSpyder]

I certainly would like to test the Daytona Spyder and see how it performs. I am planning to get one newer model in 2018 and Daytona is a good option.

I have also heard that the Kenda tire quality has been improved in 2017 models and they perform much better compared to older models.

Allan

Hi Allan;

Based on things I've read on spyderlovers, I suspect they reprogrammed the 17's. (Maybe the Daytona versions?) I'm thinking this may have been at the expense of slightly reducing low end torque? Kind of makes sense from a "liability" standpoint to do this as the 2017 F3-S models have the ability to disable traction control. (Unfortunately, if this is so: The "feature" to disable traction control essentially ended up being little more than a marketing tool, as real world results are far less than what one would have expected.) Note: I'm thinking the manual transmission version may yield entirely different results. ~ Still glad I went with the SE though. Didn't want a motorcycle, wanted a snowmobile for the highway. And at that, it's the fastest accelerating and best handling "snowmowheel" I've ever driven/sold. (on pavement of course lol)

Funny thing is: People also comment on how poor the stock tires were on the F3's. I don't have a lot of miles on my tires, but they're incredibly sticky and I'm very pleased with both the ride & handling. (Font end is very solid/stiff on mine in the corners, even without any mods like a front end after-market sway bar.)

 

[Road-Kill]

Ok I bought a new 2015 f3-s sm6, and it just doesn't impress me performance wise.
I would be more than happy with a 6th gear with some power but I top Rev my 5th at like 115 mph and shift to 6th and nothing really changes its like the computer stops throttle response. I can't understand how a 1330cc engine is barely faster than a 998cc.
I know it's new but before I wait 3 years for some decent add-ons and I'm not talking a turbo (cost outweighs the performance)
Is there any chance of nanny limiting I couldn't imagine pipes and air intake add that much. I love the torque but I don't like being the slowest "fat kid" (3 up) bike I know I'm not gonna beat the 2 wheels r1 and hyubasas but come on more speed scotty!

Should I just sell it? I do love the comfort and torque. But I can't live with my car going faster

This reads like a troll post.
Only 6 posts before posting this?
115 MPH in 5th and you want more power before 6th?
I'm just going to come out and call this for what it is....BS.

 

[Wildrice]

I have a hard time believing 115mph in 5th as was stated in the original post

I've hit 110 mph in 5th on 2015 F3's SE6 three (3) times thus I believe with more road room 115 mph could be possible. I've had the ECU reflashed with 8600 rpm but acceleration takes time from 100 mph & up---I don't have those types of road access--traffic :-( If I didn't have a full size windshield it could be done-- aerodynamic issues on most Spyders.
Darrell

 

[Wildrice]

Chains not attached for yanking :-(

No getting chains yanked here. And I must say for a community I really don't like being associated with you guys, not all but most have very rude comments to say.

I will not even think of .50 on every dollar are you slow?
I did research and knew it wasn't a 180 mph bike but being promised more at the dealer which we have one which now I know has a horrible rep for lying. I thought it was a little more advanced when purchased no Internet search said top speed.
As for cruises status a ton of bikes include that class including a hyubasa yes it's true, although I'd classify it as a drag bike.
I never expected to keep up with a crotch rocket but I expected more by far.

I asked for advice and thank those of you honestly answering it. Those of you trolling sorry but you're very unhelpful and should stop giving this site a bad name.

I tend to agree that a few of us have been a touch on the rude side. Some the nicest people I have met were speeders that could handle their machine, knew when it was safe to go fast & some of the slowest non speeders I've met had questionable honesty. To each their own. I find the most dangerous drivers on the roads to be "cell/smartphone addicts", they appear to be oblivious to the traffic pattern surrounding them. Merry Christmas to All.
Darrell
PS: As for engine break in time when two fast bike mnfg showed up at the track--the Kawasaki & the Suzuki Hayabusa----they backed the Hayabusa out of their truck with 231 mi on the odometer to drag race at max redline rpm in each gear.

 

[akbash]

Interesting. My stock D-500 SE (2017) displays almost the opposite behavior. Seems a little "under-torqued" ("torque challenged" actually imo lol) down low..... But unlike what I've read many others say about their F3-s models: She really comes alive around 5,000 and is "very spirited"/pulls hard well above 6,000 rpm's. (And I'm thankful for that.)

I have a 2017 Daytona 500 SM6 with 1400km or 870miles on it. Its all stock for performance mods for now. It pulls hard from bottom end to top end. I have to really watch my throttle position when up shifting or it shifts hard bike pulls forward and tire spins or chirps in second gear. I have driven a 2017 F3S SE6 also when i took my Spyder riding coarse. From a stand still in parking lot i could spin the rear tire easily.

Here is what i notice different from a SE6 vs SM6

SE6 When bike is first started and put into first gear and i take my foot off brake bike does not move until throttle is pressed same goes for reverse gear. Shifting is good and smooth just like a passenger car.You can shift very quickly but does not pull hard like the SM6 when you shift quickly.

SM6 When bike is started and clutched pulled in and put in to first gear as soon as you release clutch even a tiny bit you begin to move. Even with starting up a slight hill and no throttle applied and clutch released slowly bike still goes forward and does not stall at all. These engines have good low end torque. The SM6 feels like you get more power to the ground and will shift like a sports car with each shift it launches you forward with no clutch slipping. Forgot to mention when you put the SM6 into reverse no need for throttle you have to control speed with clutch lever. With clutch lever fulling released and no throttle applied in reverse it goes almost too fast in some situations thats why you need to feather the clutch lever to control speed.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

I have a 2017 Daytona 500 SM6 with 1400km or 870miles on it. Its all stock for performance mods for now. It pulls hard from bottom end to top end. I have to really watch my throttle position when up shifting or it shifts hard bike pulls forward and tire spins or chirps in second gear. I have driven a 2017 F3S SE6 also when i took my Spyder riding coarse. From a stand still in parking lot i could spin the rear tire easily.

Nothing added to bike except myself/200 lbs.
On clean pavement in 80+ degree weather, mine CANNOT/WILL-NOT begin to spin rear from standstill! Hmmmm.....

 

[mackanigbg]

There are companies in Sweden, Germany, Canada and Australia who can re-map Spyder ECU. I have ridden my re-mapped Spyder 6 months now and it is totally different machine. In low rpm range the torque is quite the same or little bit more than in stock, but from 6000 rmp it will have a steady and strong pull till the redline (stock Spyder runs out of puff after 6000 rpm). It is real blast to ride my Spyder now and hard not to smile while riding. Of course if yo want to go fast you have to also upgrade the tires, shocks, swaybar and brakes to keep up with performance increase.

Allan

I can confirm what Allan wrote, there are ECU flash software available on the market, at least now. I have a Vtech ECU software stage 2 in mine and it´s stated on their webpage to give 140 hp when combined with a muffler replacement pipe/ cat delete and no baffle (= stage 2). It´s not like it had a turbo now but it pulls strongly in ALL rpm´s and has no lack of power or response like mine had before at some rpm´s.
It also pulls very strong on top revs, and if I am on third gear at 3500 or 4000 rpm and then quickly pulls the gas handle it has a acceleration which induces a big smile on my face every time