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Pedal Commander video on Banks power
- Thread starter AndysF3S
- Start date
Peteoz
Well-known member
Yeah, the PC is not designed to make you think your Spyder is faster, which is what his premise is based on in making his negative call.
For me, it removes the lag if I am accidentally in too low a gear, where grabbing a handful of throttle simply bogs the Spyder down. The Pedal Commander eliminates this and lets you join freeway traffic without worry about that fast approaching B Double.
Sure, I could always make sure I am never in too low a gear, but being human, I make mistakes.
Pete
Got a link?? :dontknow:
AndysF3S
Member
You can try this: https://official.bankspower.com/new...S42MC4wLjA.&_ga=2.189455659.1053632616.170645
Its under the banks power news and media, than scroll down the page until you see the trophy.
Its under the banks power news and media, than scroll down the page until you see the trophy.
DGoebel
Well-known member
It is strange (this happens in the Car Forums as well) that so many people want to say that the Pedal Box or Pedal Commander doesn't make your XYZ faster, when both manufacturers clearly state that these devices are throttle response controllers (RESPONSE) being the key word. They just make slow, laggy, stock throttle's snappier.
I love mine and didn't have to pay for a tuned ECM, Though would love to someday.
Banks doesn't make a Can-AM Spyder unit, I tried, their units are ONLY OBDII compliant, so whatever he's selling doesn't apply to Spyders anyhow does it.
I love mine and didn't have to pay for a tuned ECM, Though would love to someday.
Banks doesn't make a Can-AM Spyder unit, I tried, their units are ONLY OBDII compliant, so whatever he's selling doesn't apply to Spyders anyhow does it.
EdMat
Well-known member
Or, if you prefer YouTube directly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL3pKztZirA
I have to say that I did kick back and LMAO watching it...............
blacklightning
Well-known member
I did not watch the entire video, but I did skip around. When I saw the 5.0 mustang in the backgroud, I was interested. A lot of what he said was crap. I purchased the pedal commader for my 2017 5.0 mustang after being so happy with the pedal commander on my 2016 F3T and 2016 F3L. I am as much, or more satisfied with the performance of it on my mustang. Yes, just like on the spyder, you will need to adjust your driving if you turn it up to sport or sport plus. But having the buttons works for me. I do not like using my phone app for controling it. So yes, I do enjoy the pedal commander on my car and the only thing that I wish, is that they made one for my 2002 ford lightning.
AndysF3S
Member
For those that don't know; Gale Banks is 80 years old and has been a speed enthusiast for at least 60 years. He has many land and water speed records and his knowledge of both gasoline and diesel engines naturally aspirated, turbo charged, supercharged, and supercharged plus turbo charged on the same diesel engine making huge horsepower reliably, is second to none. He has had several military contracts to provide upgraded diesel power for their heavy vehicles and is/was working on a Hybrid with them as well.
He provides both tunes and inline tuners for current and older vehicles that remain completely emissions compliant; and works closely with GM on the L5P diesel in the 2500/3500 series. He does not provide a product for bikes or spyders.
The reason he made the video is that Pedal Commander tried to compare their product to his, the Pedal Monster, which is made for the automotive industry.
There was an older thread on here (many pages of discussion) where one of the participants had a very good electrical background and he made a compelling argument that the Pedal Commander did nothing more than the throttle could do; it just changed the signal to the ECU so that the ECU responded to a more open throttle than the rider had actually commanded on the hand grip.
The reason I posted the video is that at 12:47 there is a chart that shows visually throttle position (vertically) vs pedal or hand grip position (horizontally). What happens is when you move the hand grip 10-20 percent you send the signal to the ECM that the throttle position is 70-90% open and that is why the driver gets the feeling that you are accelerating much quicker, when in fact you are accelerating at or near full throttle not at the hand grip throttle position. The ECM regulates the actual throttle opening as per its programming not as per the throttle position signal. Perhaps this is why some have commented to be very careful in wet conditions.
For those of us that have the F3S we have Eco, standard and sport mode. As the graph a bit later in the video shows, "Eco" is below the standard straight black line (idle to WOT) and "Sport" is above the straight line but all three eventually meet at the far right at WOT. The Eco is slower and lazier (economy) the standard is the straight line and what I normally use, Sport, feels quicker but doesn't give you any more power at WOT. I have read that the Sport mode also "relaxes the nanny a bit in the lower gears" that allows some wheel spin before reducing the throttle opening.
As I stated in the title, the purpose of the post was to try and explain what the Pedal Commander was doing to the throttle signal that was being sent to the ECM not to bash anyone that bought or sells this product. If you like the enhanced throttle response of the Pedal Commander continue to enjoy it.
He provides both tunes and inline tuners for current and older vehicles that remain completely emissions compliant; and works closely with GM on the L5P diesel in the 2500/3500 series. He does not provide a product for bikes or spyders.
The reason he made the video is that Pedal Commander tried to compare their product to his, the Pedal Monster, which is made for the automotive industry.
There was an older thread on here (many pages of discussion) where one of the participants had a very good electrical background and he made a compelling argument that the Pedal Commander did nothing more than the throttle could do; it just changed the signal to the ECU so that the ECU responded to a more open throttle than the rider had actually commanded on the hand grip.
The reason I posted the video is that at 12:47 there is a chart that shows visually throttle position (vertically) vs pedal or hand grip position (horizontally). What happens is when you move the hand grip 10-20 percent you send the signal to the ECM that the throttle position is 70-90% open and that is why the driver gets the feeling that you are accelerating much quicker, when in fact you are accelerating at or near full throttle not at the hand grip throttle position. The ECM regulates the actual throttle opening as per its programming not as per the throttle position signal. Perhaps this is why some have commented to be very careful in wet conditions.
For those of us that have the F3S we have Eco, standard and sport mode. As the graph a bit later in the video shows, "Eco" is below the standard straight black line (idle to WOT) and "Sport" is above the straight line but all three eventually meet at the far right at WOT. The Eco is slower and lazier (economy) the standard is the straight line and what I normally use, Sport, feels quicker but doesn't give you any more power at WOT. I have read that the Sport mode also "relaxes the nanny a bit in the lower gears" that allows some wheel spin before reducing the throttle opening.
As I stated in the title, the purpose of the post was to try and explain what the Pedal Commander was doing to the throttle signal that was being sent to the ECM not to bash anyone that bought or sells this product. If you like the enhanced throttle response of the Pedal Commander continue to enjoy it.
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Yabbadabbadoo
Member
Yeah I think it's been pretty clearly documented that the Pedal Commander or Pedal Box only increases throttle response, not any true horsepower improvement at all. That being said the increased throttle response is a great pleasure to have. It makes the Spyder more fun to drive.
I have used the Pedal Commander on my GMC Canyon and GMC Sierra. In both cases after driving it for a few weeks the vehicles went into limp mode. I used an ODBC tool to clear the codes which it did. But the issues reappeared after a short period of time. I now have two Pedal Commanders sitting uselessly on my workbench. I am very interested in the PedalMonster
Peteoz
Well-known member
That scenario occurred on Spyders as well when the Pedal Commander first came out for them, dalavette. In the few cases I saw, it ended up being that either the incorrect model had been shipped for the Spyder, or it had not been configured correctly on install.
Pete
blacklightning
Well-known member
:agree: My Mustang already has 3 or 4 driving modes. And to be honest, I did not need it with the way I drive now. But after getting over $50 off on the Black Friday sale, I couldn't help getting it. And just like the Spyder, it did not increase upon the 435 hp that it has stock, it just made it more responsive. If I truly wanted more power, I would have gone with a s/c or something.
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BajaRon
Well-known member
A little bit of apples and oranges comparing the automotive to the Spyder/Ryker. But same concept. I still have some disagreement when people say these do not increase HP on the Spyder. Because they do increase available, useable HP in some situations. Because the computer on the FBW Spyders will begin to close off the throttle bodies at higher RPM's (still well below redline). While total potential HP is not changed, one of these units will increase usable HP by keeping your throttle bodies at WOT.
Taking out the lag between throttle actuation and implementation makes you quicker. Something that you can't get with the OEM setup.
These are a great addition for most ryders. They do what they are designed to do on the Spyder and Ryker (though personally, I don't think they are needed on the Ryker).
Taking out the lag between throttle actuation and implementation makes you quicker. Something that you can't get with the OEM setup.
These are a great addition for most ryders. They do what they are designed to do on the Spyder and Ryker (though personally, I don't think they are needed on the Ryker).
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AndysF3S
Member
I am not an authority on the Pedal Commander but from the chart showing that the PC only changes the signal going to the ECM; the ECM doesn't know anything more and it opens and closes the throttle body based on its previous programming in the same way that it would if you were at that throttle opening by rotating your hand to that same position as the PC. If you roll into the throttle slowly and have a PC it changes the signal to the ECM to a higher foot pedal or hand rotation reading; resulting in a quicker acceleration based only on advancing the throttle signal nothing else. JMO
Even the Canam ECO, Standard and Sport do not change the HP the ECM adjusts the engine to provide, WOT is WOT in all modes and the PC as well. JMO
mandytuning
New member
Nothing like a tune.
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BajaRon
Well-known member
Initial WOT is WOT. But the ECU modifies that and will close the throttle bodies when the ryder still has the throttle in the wide open position.
Juuust recalling the graph from BRP that's comparing the throttle response for ECO & Normal Modes in the Spyders, and I'm pretty sure that ECO mode, at least on the Spyders, doesn't ever actually achieve WOT!?! :yikes:
IIRC, I reckon that it never gets that far; the ECO line on the graph was some % lower right from the outset, ending about 30% less than WOT at full twist, where the 'Normal Mode' actually hit WOT - and then, as Ron has mentioned, the control systems modify the command signal even further and despite the rider continuing to hold WOT (or the about 30% lower equivalent for ECO Mode) on the handgrip, the actual throttle opening is reduced somewhat... In the case of ECO Mode, that reduction is applied on top of the reduction that selecting ECO Mode already imposes! :banghead:
So it's not true to say "WOT is WOT in all modes", because you never actually get to WOT in ECO Mode :lecturef_smilie:
And regardless of the Mode selected, even if you continue to hold your hand in the WOT position, the OEM control system will then cut back from/reduce that within moments anyway!
I don't believe that the Power Commander changes any of that at all, nor does it 'reduce the Nanny' or do anything else to the OEM ECU or power output, even tho it will speed up the initial 'dial in' of your perceived throttle input as your hand twists the throttle... 'Achieving a wider throttle opening for less hand twist' is probably a 'more correct' way of describing what it does, cos it's basically just packing/compressing the former effect of a full hand twist into something less than that... 
Mind you, for those saying that the throttle butterfly won't open any quicker than your hand could do it anyway, this Banks Short seems to show otherwise...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bKxgpbp73GI
:dontknow:
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AndysF3S
Member
Let's not confuse the signal that goes from the hand grip with the signal that the ECM sends to the throttle body; the ECM controls the throttle body by the programmed parameters within it and a WOT from the hand grip will be the same whether it is from the PC or the hand grip if it isn't it will throw a TPS code, anyway as usual we are drifting away from the original purpose of the thread so go ahead and close it please. Thanks.
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