Passenger Seat Switch and the Nanny

[Dray]

I be a little confused so please help me understand. I have a 2015 F3S with the
semi auto and I have always had a traction problem and that is not meant as a
brag. On a short cruise last week I was pulling across a street and with the handle
bars at about a 30* angle the rear tire was spinning, I let off the gas, eased back
into the throttle and the tire broke loose again. Streets were dry and clean and I was
not hot rodding it. This has happened to me a couple of times before where I live and
I logged it in my pea brain as just me getting use to a new bike. My question is it
possible that my nanny is not working as it should? This all said wet weather driving
is not a fun thing to do. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Dray :yes::yes::yes::yes:

 

[JKMSPYDER]

I would certainly have the dealer look at it to be sure the nanny is working properly.

 

[monkeyboymorton]

Are you seeing the VSC light in the dash cluster flash on? That will be an indication of whether the system is working or not. It's in the speedo half, flashes orange.

To be honest what you describe is not far from what I would describe as normal behaviour. The F3 is designed to allow some breaking of traction at the rear and not be too restrictive. I find it will allow the rear to break out so far and then cut the power to stop it spinning round completely.

If I open the throttle with some steering angle on mine it will light up the rear tire very easily. Especially if it's damp or a cooler day and the rear tire is cold. Edit - I find the wheel spin starts at about 3K RPM.

My experience of how the VSC works is 2 part:

1. It will limit wheel spin to prevent the bike spinning at lower speeds (<30mph) but alow the rear to break away to some degree
2. At higher speeds it will limit power on exit from a corner until the bars are straight - pre-empting any wheelspin that might occur.

 

[billybovine]

The traction control function is not active until you have reach a speed of 30 mph. True of all Spyder no matter the model. Other functions of the stability system are active even below 30 mph. Over the years BRP has backed off on how restrictive the stability system is. On my 09 I could spin the back tire but only if I could keep it absolutely straight. Even a small amount amount of yaw would kick in the stability system. My 13 on the other hand I can have a lot more yaw without the stability system kicking in. If I remember correctly when the F3 was introduced one of the features was that the stability parameters were backed off again. Add to that the larger rear sprocket on NA models. It should very easy to spin the back wheel.

 

[Dray]

Thanks guys for the input! It sure helps me understand what is going on.
Not chirping the tire when pulling away from a light requires a gentle touch.
As stated early riding in the wet is not fun. I have had the tire break loose
at 50/60 mph in wet weather when passing a car in 5th. First time it happened
it scared the crap out of me. I have learned to ease into passing and leaving
it in 6th when in the wet. As an aside, a friend I ride with has a 2015 RT and
does not have the same problem. We have had several discussions on this and
he is convinced something is wrong with my bike. I should say that I still have
the factory tires and this may all go away when I change out the tires.
Thanks again.

Dray:yes::yes::yes::yes:

 

[billybovine]

Thanks guys for the input! It sure helps me understand what is going on.
Not chirping the tire when pulling away from a light requires a gentle touch.
As stated early riding in the wet is not fun. I have had the tire break loose
at 50/60 mph in wet weather when passing a car in 5th. First time it happened
it scared the crap out of me. I have learned to ease into passing and leaving
it in 6th when in the wet. As an aside, a friend I ride with has a 2015 RT and
does not have the same problem. We have had several discussions on this and
he is convinced something is wrong with my bike. I should say that I still have
the factory tires and this may all go away when I change out the tires.
Thanks again.

Dray:yes::yes::yes::yes:

Could it be that you just have too much air in it?

 

[monkeyboymorton]

As an aside, a friend I ride with has a 2015 RT and
does not have the same problem. We have had several discussions on this and
he is convinced something is wrong with my bike.

It's difficult to compare an RT to an F3 for a number of reasons:

• The RT is a lot heavier so has a much lower power to weight ratio
• It has a smaller sprocket so higher gearing
• The VCS is configured specifially to intervene less on the F3

All this means the RT is much less likely to either spin the wheel in the first place and the VCS more likley to curtail it by cutting the power.

Unfortunately you have purchased the sportier model and it comes with more 'fun' as part of the package. Clearly you don't think wheelspin at 60mph in the wet is fun and I would completely agree.

I've had the rear wheel in mine twitch alarmingly when going across white lines in the wet and I can agree it's a buttock clenching moment.

Again, everything you describe just sounds like my F3!! It is a beast you need to respect when it's not bone dry and warm.

Oh and just to add my F3 is a Euro model so I have the smaller sprocket (same as RT) and higher gearing as standard. I can only imagine how twitchy it must be with the bigger sprocket you have.

 

[Bob Denman]

The F3s ALL seem to suffer from "lack of traction"...
(Or is it an "Excess of Fun"? )

 

[Peter Aawen]

Could it be that you just have too much air in it?

Billy has got a point here!! Sure, we all know the Kenda tires aren't all that great for traction, but even while running them, too much air in your tires for the weight they are carrying will only ADD to the likelihood of breaking traction; and that goes ESPECIALLY in the wet!! :shocked:

Maybe you could try dropping a couple of psi out of your rear tire, Dray?? It might just make things a little better for you - but you'll never know unless you give it a go! :thumbup:

 

[Lizzerd]

I've had my F3-T since July, have ridden in dry and wet, and never had spinning ... kinda confused me at first!! :shocked:

 

[Dray]

What would be a good starting point for all around tire air pressure?
I typically run between 26 and 28 lbs. in back depending on what I am
carrying. If I am on a road trip with baggage, 28 lbs. is what I run.
Fronts generally run 18 to 20 lbs. Suggestions appreciated.
Thanks much for all the input.

Dray :yes::yes::yes::yes:

 

[Peter Aawen]

The fronts aren't carrying a great deal of weight & having a pair of tires up there generally means they don't hafta work too hard, so work with whatever feels comfortable to you - me, I'd tend to keep to the lower pressures to maximise traction, but you hafta watch out for the trade-off in steering that going too low can bring.

As for the rears, just give lower pressures a try - if you usually run say 26psi & yet you get a lot of tire spin even with careful throttle application, dropping 2psi off that when your tires are cold & seeing how that pressure works for you might be a revelation - lower pressures work to allow more tire carcass flex which increases the tire & compound temperature & therefore improves traction thru making the tread 'stickier' while also allowing the tire to conform to the road surface better; & at the same time those lower pressures are also letting the tread blocks & sipes flex more so they act like little fingers gripping the road better at the same time as working to pump water clear of the contact patch - all of which will also improve traction & tire grip on the road surface!

But, just to be on the safe side & hopefully to avoid destroying tires needlessly, make sure you check the tire pressures again after an hour or so of riding - you do NOT want to see a pressure increase of anything much more than 6psi after riding for an hour or so!! An increase of 4psi is ideal, 6psi is OK (& often used/sought after when running hard compound tires) but an increase of anything much more than 6psi is a sign the tires are getting too hot & the greater that increase is over 6psi, the more likely that tread de-lamination or blow-outs may occur!! :shocked:

In my experience, the Kendas are fairly reactive to lowering pressures & while a little lower pressure might help, they are likely to over-heat readily if you go just a touch too low!! They are a lightly constructed tire with relatively poor quality control during their construction & don't provide great traction at the best of times, so you may not be able to get much better from them regardless, but I reckon it's still worth a try or you'll never know. However, please do be careful & make sure that you watch out for that 'greater than 6psi' pressure increase after an hours riding - too much of an increase too quickly could be dangerous!

Hope that helps you some, but whatever you do, Ride Safe! :thumbup: