Online DPS Petition...Interest?

[BajaRon]

We do, however, own a Spyder that suffered steering issues. For comparison's sake, I was merely highlighting the speed at which a 'fix' surfaced, when a global recall, and production and sales stoppage occured.

I guess I just do not communicate well and I appologize for that.

You assume a fix has been found based on nothing more than words from Toyota. Absolutly no proof, Nothing has been done, just words. And I know this is just your opinion, which you have every right to. But it is far from being the done deal you seem to feel it is.

Congress has completed their own investigation which leads them to believe that Toyota's fix does not address the problem at all. Their investigators say it is computer/electronic related (not hardward as Toyota claims).

The comparison is valid only as far as a potentially dangerous issue has been found on both Toyota and BRP vehicles. BRP has actually done more to fix the DPS problem in 3 or 4 months than Toyota has done in over 10 years!

BRP has replaced parts, upgraded software and many Spyders have actually been fixed, like mine.

Toyota has not yet replaced 1 part, has not yet even attempted to fix a single vehicle in nearly 10 years. I'd say BRP is way ahead in this comparison no matter how you look at it.

 

[bjt]

BTW, I do hope that Toyota passengers stop getting injured or killed after the repairs are made.......

+1


BTW, I wasn't getting on you specifically about a Toyota comment but they have been brought up in SpyderLovers a couple of times the past few days as being a higher standard and the recent events show they aren't any better.

I'm not happy that people are getting injured in Toyotas but Im not sad to see a little luster knocked off their image as the "most wonderful" car maker. I was just reading another news report that, in Japan, they think this is a U.S. way of stirring up resentment to foreign cars, like we are making this all up....

 

[NancysToy]

+1


BTW, I wasn't getting on you specifically about a Toyota comment but they have been brought up in SpyderLovers a couple of times the past few days as being a higher standard and the recent events show they aren't any better.

I'm not happy that people are getting injured in Toyotas but Im not sad to see a little luster knocked off their image as the "most wonderful" car maker. I was just reading another news report that, in Japan, they think this is a U.S. way of stirring up resentment to foreign cars, like we are making this all up....

So does that make the news reports tonight about the Chevy Cobalt steering problems a foreign plot? Retaliation, perhaps? LOL

 

[bjt]

So does that make the news reports tonight about the Chevy Cobalt steering problems a foreign plot? Retaliation, perhaps? LOL

I haven't heard of this yet. I wonder if the Cobalt has an electronic steering assist also. I wish all vehicle makers would go back to less electrical, more mechanical machines. This all reminds me of the Terminator movies. The computers have figured out they don't really need us and they are starting to kill us off. I went to a Fanuc Robot training class in December and they had one robot building motors for other robots. :sour:

 

[NancysToy]

I haven't heard of this yet. I wonder if the Cobalt has an electronic steering assist also. I wish all vehicle makers would go back to less electrical, more mechanical machines. This all reminds me of the Terminator movies. The computers have figured out they don't really need us and they are starting to kill us off. I went to a Fanuc Robot training class in December and they had one robot building motors for other robots. :sour:

Yes, it does. Variable assist electric power unit, similar to the Spyder. Nancy's HHR has one. Problem with the Cobalts is that they go in and out, I guess, surprising people. I also heard of a problem with linkage that gets loose and causes excessive play. Virtually all vehicles have a skeleton in the closet somewhere.

 

[Blane270sx]

Yes, it does. Variable assist electric power unit, similar to the Spyder. Nancy's HHR has one. Problem with the Cobalts is that they go in and out, I guess, surprising people. I also heard of a problem with linkage that gets loose and causes excessive play. Virtually all vehicles have a skeleton in the closet somewhere.

:helpsmilie:CRAP!!! Now the wife will be worried about driving her HHR :yikes:

 

[Amanda B]

Toyota fix not as fast as people are saying

The problem with the gas pedals was being reported back in September, and people were told to remove their floor mats until a fix was developed, so it isn't something that occurred quickly or overnight. BRP needs time too, I just hope they get it figured out before the weather gets nice!!!


http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/09/toyota_recalls.html

I don't see why the discussion over this issue gets so heated and people attack each other over it. I am worried to ride my bike now, but at least I know the risks.

 

[bone crusher]

To HDX, Way2fast, Tom, Baja, Scotty, Lamont, and others,

I think this thread has been a nice, open format to air our concerns about the DPS problem (and each other!). It got a little 'in your face' at times, but it was controlled and when people are passionate about a topic, flare-ups are bound to occur. This is a good thing. Lamont...thank you for keeping this thread going.

There hasn't been much progress made on a petition, but I cannot push that as many of us would have to work together to get this done...we need a large effort to do something such as this and make it professional...still up in the air on it...

I was speaking with another member here (someone who Smyles a lot!) and I'm now thinking that perhaps we should all email the top brass at BRP with our concerns, in volume. This is not meant to be a spam effect, but rather a lot of voices from a lot of Spyder owners. If we do this in a concerned fashion, they will be more apt to work with us instead of keeping us in the dark.

I want to say to all of you who have had DPS problems that I am glad that you are all still here and were not injured (or worse) due to the steering sticking. For those of us who have not experienced this steering horror, I'm sure it's hard to imagine just how scary it was...I hope none of us have to deal with this going forward.

If many of us agree that emailing the top brass (4 or 5 of them) is a good idea, then maybe someone can post their emails and we can take our concerns (in a positive fashion) to them directly?? Just an idea...thoughts?

 

[docdoru]

I'm not happy that people are getting injured in Toyotas but Im not sad to see a little luster knocked off their image as the "most wonderful" car maker. I was just reading another news report that, in Japan, they think this is a U.S. way of stirring up resentment to foreign cars, like we are making this all up....

And today, the other pedal problems over Prius http://www.marketwatch.com/story/to...s-brake-complaints-2010-02-02?dist=beforebell

 

[wyliec]

To HDX, Way2fast, Tom, Baja, Scotty, Lamont, and others,

I think this thread has been a nice, open format to air our concerns about the DPS problem (and each other!). It got a little 'in your face' at times, but it was controlled and when people are passionate about a topic, flare-ups are bound to occur. This is a good thing. Lamont...thank you for keeping this thread going.

There hasn't been much progress made on a petition, but I cannot push that as many of us would have to work together to get this done...we need a large effort to do something such as this and make it professional...still up in the air on it...

I was speaking with another member here (someone who Smyles a lot!) and I'm now thinking that perhaps we should all email the top brass at BRP with our concerns, in volume. This is not meant to be a spam effect, but rather a lot of voices from a lot of Spyder owners. If we do this in a concerned fashion, they will be more apt to work with us instead of keeping us in the dark.

I want to say to all of you who have had DPS problems that I am glad that you are all still here and were not injured (or worse) due to the steering sticking. For those of us who have not experienced this steering horror, I'm sure it's hard to imagine just how scary it was...I hope none of us have to deal with this going forward.

If many of us agree that emailing the top brass (4 or 5 of them) is a good idea, then maybe someone can post their emails and we can take our concerns (in a positive fashion) to them directly?? Just an idea...thoughts?

Do you think Carlo may have their e-mail addresses? Or, at least try to have him forward our e-mails. Some how I don't think you'll be able to come up with their (top brass) e-mail addresses.

 

[Way2Fast]

I was wondering where the info saying that Toyota's gas pedal problems go back 10 years comes from. ? The oldest vehicle involved in the recall is a 2005 model.

I would love to have access to the email addresses of BRP's upper management to do what has been suggested here. However it will probably be next to impossible to get them.

 

[NancysToy]

I was wondering where the info saying that Toyota's gas pedal problems go back 10 years comes from. ? The oldest vehicle involved in the recall is a 2005 model.

I don't know about ten years, but as far as I can see, the first reports to the NHTSA regarding unintended acceleration were for 2002 Lexus models.

 

[Smylinacha]

I also heard on the news this morning that they were talking about the problems Toyota has could be because of phone or radio interference w/ the computers in the car. Wonder if that could be the same sorta thing w/ the :spyder:?

 

[Smylinacha]

Won't let me edit a thread at work but here's the article that suggests cell phones, sat radios etc. could cause a vehicle to act strange - like the acceleration in the Toyotas that I heard about on the news this morning....

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...oyota-Vehicles-Face-Unintended-Acceleration-/

 

[Way2Fast]

A look into an imaginary crystal ball shows that computer related problems with cars and other vehicles will multiply as the vehicles age making many if not all of them unsafe to operate. Repairs will be expensive and fixes not guaranteed. Most vehicles will end up in junk yards long before their mechanicals wear out.

A computers place is on a desk. Humans belong behind the wheel and in physical control of the vehicle they are operating.

 

[BajaRon]

I was wondering where the info saying that Toyota's gas pedal problems go back 10 years comes from. ? The oldest vehicle involved in the recall is a 2005 model.

I can't find the article I referenced. There is so much being written that it's hard to find the one I looked at the other day.

I did think it odd that the recall did not go back further than it did. The article simply said that there there have been similar throttle sticking issues/complaints beginning with model year 1999. It may be they were similar but not related.

It is safe to say that the current problem extends back at least 5 years, and I'm not sure we've yet seen the end of it. The list of problem vehicles continues to grow daily and the so called "FIX" may not be that at all.

One thing is clear, no one really has any definite answers yet. I still like what BRP has done, so far, much better than what Toyota has done.

 

[wyliec]

I still like what BRP has done, so far, much better than what Toyota has done.

Ron,

I'm not tryig to be a smarta$$; but what has BRP done in regards to correcting the steering issue?

I know there was a posting in Nov. where they said owners had reported steering issues and they were sending out techs. to check things out. They didn't admit there was a problem. Since then they have replaced the DPS along with other parts on Spyders with a steering issue. It appears that some Spyders have been back multiple times to the dealer for the same issue. Then, there were some lucky enough who had their DPS changed or one of the other parts and there Spyder is running with no more steering issue; at least up to this point.

Two more questions and they're just for you. Do you feel your Spyder steering issue has been permanently fixed, and if so, will you be taking it back to the dealer when BRP comes out with a fix to correct the current steering problems?

 

[Smylinacha]

Well, I am happy someone flew in and looked at my bike. I am very happy that I love my dealer.

I am happy that they tried and stuck a new DPS in it BUT with that new DPS I want the final answer - It is Fixed. I want to know why it messed up in the first place. I don't have those answers.

I have decided it will sit in the garage until I do have those answers. I do not want to ride it anymore - although I love my :spyder:, we ride a few hundred miles basically every single weekend. I don't want that "what if it starts up again" feeling in the back of my head. I guess I have that feeling because I do not know if that DPS they put in my :spyder:is the final fix. I do not know cuz nobody told me what caused it to happen in the first place.

So, I have come to the conclusion that I'll be a Harley Chick again w/ HDX until there is a final answer. I can't sell it since I do not own it outright. And I don't think I could sell it to someone else if I think something might not be right on it. Unless I disclosed that and they were still willing to buy.

Perhaps if there still is no answer well into Season, I will look into the Lemon Law.

 

[Tom in NM]

To HDX, Way2fast, Tom, Baja, Scotty, Lamont, and others,

I think this thread has been a nice, open format to air our concerns about the DPS problem (and each other!). . . . . . .

I want to say to all of you who have had DPS problems that I am glad that you are all still here and were not injured (or worse) due to the steering sticking. For those of us who have not experienced this steering horror, I'm sure it's hard to imagine just how scary it was...I hope none of us have to deal with this going forward.

Bonecrusher, the one thing about all the talk on the steering issue is that some balance is lacking - for example, your comment on "this steering horror" and "hard to imagine just how scary it was". Based on my experiences - that kind of description is way over the top and overly dramatic. :yikes:

I can only judge based on my experience and those that have said that it mirrored theirs. For me, it was nowhere near as "exciting" as having a tire blowout or hitting an icy patch of road and losing control. It was about on par with hitting some lumber or large tire parts in the road. Others ( given traffic, road conditions, rider strength and speed ) could have had more of an experience. Scary? Probably, but for me, it was unsettling and quickly became an irritation when it happened a few times in as many miles and even became "predictable".

Was it a "horror" or un-imaginingly" scary? No. Neither was it a feeling of "total loss of control" or the Spyder steering itself into oncoming traffic as if it had a mind of its own. Here is a link to my initial description: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=163132&postcount=1 . As I posted before, the most unsettling thing about it is when the steering "unsticks" and you find you have "overcompensated" and they Spyder goes suddenly goes to the left.

Is this a serious problem, yes, it needs to be fixed and I believe mine has been. But, in the scheme of things that can happen - like hitting some road debris and/or having a tire blowout - ( in my case ) this was a lot less threatening.

I have mixed feelings about the people who succumb to the hype or sheer volume of alarm over this issue. On one hand, riding a Spyder is dangerous - riding any motorcycle is. It calls for attention, vigilance, good reflexes and skill - and even then, stuff happens. If someone feels they are "up to that", trained and practiced enough - it is their choice to "go for it!". On the other hand, when the hype gets so one-sided to the negative or laden with uncertainty, that they feel they are doomed if they ride - they are not getting the best information to help them evaluate the risk and make up their own minds.

I cannot tell anybody to ride or not to ride.
I cannot tell if a "steering" event is within their capabilities or not.
I can only relate my experience - as factually as I can - so they can determine for themselves that if it happens to them, they can deal with it.

For me, that kind of information sharing is what I come to SpyderLovers.com for. Riders like Dudley, Lamont, Ron, Scotty, Pitmon, Brian, Firefly and lots of others have really provided great info so I could make my own decisions. Thanks all. :thumbup:

But, the hype and :cus:ing does not add any value for me, just the opposite. I feel sorry for the new riders who only have those kind of comments to help them form opinions and evaluate risks.

Tom

 

[Smylinacha]

You are TOTALLY entitled to your opinion Tom - that is what makes this country cool. But I'll have to say - everyone feels things differently and for me, I felt it, freaked the first time and then calmed down cuz I thought it was something I did but when it happened again, it down right scared me. I do know how to ride and I know all the emergency stuff but ask HDX when we pulled into the parking lot at a store - ask him how concerned I was. Basically I stopped being playful with the thing like I grew accustomed to. I basically rode it wondering what would happen next. No more play time. Just ride it and be careful and get home safe.

Bonecrusher, the one thing about all the talk on the steering issue is that some balance is lacking - for example, your comment on "this steering horror" and "hard to imagine just how scary it was". Based on my experiences - that kind of description is way over the top and overly dramatic. :yikes: I am not a dude - I am a 115 pound 5 foot tall girl who I doubt could control a 700 something pound trike if it decided to behave on it's own. Maybe not over the top for you but it scared me. Just my own opinion about MY situation.

I can only judge based on my experience and those that have said that it mirrored theirs. For me, it was nowhere near as "exciting" as having a tire blowout or hitting an icy patch of road and losing control. It was about on par with hitting some lumber or large tire parts in the road. Others ( given traffic, road conditions, rider strength and speed ) could have had more of an experience. Scary? Probably, but for me, it was unsettling and quickly became an irritation when it happened a few times in as many miles and even became "predictable". I also thought I ran over something the first time and it got stuck in the Spyder and when I found out I didn't I got nervous. And it wasn't an annoyance to me but it was a what if - gee I better not speed, or gee whiz I better not take that corner too hard or gosh darn I better not play on the straightaway.

Was it a "horror" or un-imaginingly" scary? No. I am really glad it wasn't scarey for you:clap:Neither was it a feeling of "total loss of control" or the Spyder steering itself into oncoming traffic as if it had a mind of its own. Most excellent!:thumbup:Here is a link to my initial description: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=163132&postcount=1 . As I posted before, the most unsettling thing about it is when the steering "unsticks" and you find you have "overcompensated" and they Spyder goes suddenly goes to the left.

.....On the other hand, when the hype gets so one-sided to the negative or laden with uncertainty, that they feel they are doomed if they ride - they are not getting the best information to help them evaluate the risk and make up their own minds. I got my answer why I will not ride it - wanna know why? Cuz I got NO ANSWER as to why it happened and I am STILL not getting any answer if my :spyder:is FIXED.

I cannot tell anybody to ride or not to ride.
I cannot tell if a "steering" event is within their capabilities or not.
I can only relate my experience - as factually as I can - so they can determine for themselves that if it happens to them, they can deal with it.

For me, that kind of information sharing is what I come to SpyderLovers.com for. Riders like Dudley, Lamont, Ron, Scotty, Pitmon, Brian, Firefly and lots of others have really provided great info so I could make my own decisions. Thanks all. :thumbup:

But, the hype and :cus:ing does not add any value for me, just the opposite. I feel sorry for the new riders who only have those kind of comments to help them form opinions and evaluate risks. Right now if someone asked me about buying a Spyder I'd have to tell them no - at least not an 08 or 09. I don't know anything about 2010 RS - nobody posts about them, don't know about the DPS so I can't say anything about that one. I love the Spyder - the concept but they need to do some serious work on the thing to make it safer. I still think it's a software, computer related mess :dontknow:

Tom