Oil Leaks-anyone else/

[Recluze]

I have had my Spyder for a couple of years and have put about 35k on it.

I also bought a new house about the same time. As soon as I put the new Spyder in its new garage I noticed it was leaking oil.

So I did the Lamonster catch can thing and after a few mistakes, got it working to the point where I could eliminate the oil in the air box as a cause.

So I gave up and took it to the dealer to fix. They had it for about two months in which time they completely disassembled the engine and put it back together with new gaskets all the way around. They also changed the output shaft and pulley which has nothing to do with this but was a good thing to have fixed.

So now I have it back and it is pretty much the same as when I took it in. It is leaking oil from no one particular location. And I am not unusally picky about this but it is a lot of oil. I look under there and it is like a rain forest of oil. I had a '74 GMC pickup truck that leaked about the same amount but that was to be expected of that vintage. The Spyder had pretty much ruined my garage floor previously and now I just keep waste cardboard under it rather than cleaning it up every day.

I had heard a lot of good things about Rotax engines prior to this. But after this incident, and going through two of them in my jet ski this summer, I am thinking that the reputation is a bit overstated.

So the question I have is: Am I the only one that is having this kind of experience? Are my expectations higher than what they should be for this type of vehicle?
I find it odd that the subject has not come up with the exception of the oil in the air box thing.

Bottomline is that I am going to keep adding oil to it and keep riding it. I would have expected better from an Austrian engine builder. But then this thing was relatively cheap and has low production volume so maybe I am expecting too much.

 

[Roaddog2]

sounds to me liked they pinched a gasket somewhere I bring it back or a bad seal :spyder2:

 

[NancysToy]

The oil everywhere thing is usually indicative of an airbox problem, leakage near the top end, or a pressurized line/passage leak. Shaft seals that leak, or bad case halves or component gaskets, unless totally shot, will more often show localized leaks.

If it is a pressure leak, it should certainly be able to be spotted. The procedure is simple, but time consuming. Clean, run, get a flashlight and look for carefully for leaks, repeat if needed. Of course with the Spyder this is more difficult due to the bodywork and how tightly components are packed. It may take several tries.

For a top end leak, it is most often valve cover gaskets, which as Roaddog says, are most often pinched gaskets during installation. These should be easy to find., but often leak more after a long ride or after the machine is shut off.

Most common cause of oil all over is actually the airbox, believe it or not. Last time, even after cleaning the box, I found oil under and over everything, and literally cleaned for hours, with more drips drooling for a few days until I got everything out. Keeping the oil toward the low mark on the stick, making sure to properly check at full operating temperature and not just after idling, helps a lot. I also have had success with filter foam in the vent line, but not everyone trusts that modification.

Clean it up, run it, check for leaks. Sooner or later you will find the source.

 

[groundeffect]

So, just so that I understand the 'normal' oil leaks seen on the spyder.... they are coming from WHERE exactly and draining into the airbox?

Thanks.

 

[NancysToy]

So, just so that I understand the 'normal' oil leaks seen on the spyder.... they are coming from WHERE exactly and draining into the airbox?

Thanks.

The crankcase ventilation system is vented into the airbox to meet EPA regulations for a closed loop system. Blow-by oil ends up in the airbox.

 

[Firefly]

I agree that it has a high chance of being the airbox. BRP has yet to provide a real fix to the massive amounts of oil that accumulate in it. Although I would have thought the tech would have checked the airbox before tearing the engine down.

I have an oil leak that I have not been able to track down-- but it's only a drop or two after each ride. I have not had the dealer check it yet--- but will do so in the spring.

I know my leak isn't the airbox as I don't have it installed anymore----

 

[Recluze]

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I don't thinkthe air box is the culprit as I have the 'catch can' mod. When I look in the air box it seems dry and oil free which is what I would expect since I have the vent line routed to the catch can.

The valve cover gaskets do seem like a good place to look. I guess starting from the top of th engine and cleaning and inspecting would be a good technique to find it.

And yeah the covers do make it a pain. But like most I am getting good at taking them off.

 

[wyliec]

Maybe you already checked, but my catch can was leaking from the bottom valve. I used JB Weld to seal the valve from the inside. Others here have had the same problem. I thought I'd just throw that out there. You seem pretty thorough; so, that may not be it in your case.

 

[Lamonster]

Is the oil from the top down or on the bottom of the motor?

 

[groundeffect]

anyone have a link to the catch-can mod with pictures and some explanations?


thanks guys.
Cheers.

 

[Recluze]

After doing all of the easy stuff, like the catch can, I decided that the oil leaking from my Spyder was beyond my capabilities. This thing is leaking oil like a fat tourist on a hot beach.

So I took it into the dealer and they removed the engine and changed all of the gaskets. This process took right at two months.

I took the bike out for a ride and the oil leaks were now worse than when I originally took it in. Also I now had a low oil pressure light when the motor is hot and the engine is at idle. Back to the the dealer and after having a look they decided that the rear valve cover gasket was leaking. Whatever was leaking was leaving a small puddle of oil at the top of the engine and underway it would migrate down the engine and onto the back of the bike. They changed the valve cover gasket and oil pressure sensor.

I gave it a test drive and it is pretty much as before-oil pooling on the rear cylinder and the oil light coming on at idle. And as an added bonus it now surges pretty bad between 4-5000 RPM.

I am open for suggestions.

 

[groundeffect]

This process took right at two months.

:yikes:

I took the bike out for a ride and the oil leaks were now worse than when I originally took it in. Also I now had a low oil pressure light when the motor is hot and the engine is at idle.

So… do dealers do test rides after their work, these days???
:yikes::dontknow:



I do not have any suggestions, but I'm sure more experienced spyder ryders will jump in,soon.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[Lamonster]

:sour:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10017

After doing all of the easy stuff, like the catch can, I decided that the oil leaking from my Spyder was beyond my capabilities. This thing is leaking oil like a fat tourist on a hot beach.

So I took it into the dealer and they removed the engine and changed all of the gaskets. This process took right at two months.

I took the bike out for a ride and the oil leaks were now worse than when I originally took it in. Also I now had a low oil pressure light when the motor is hot and the engine is at idle. Back to the the dealer and after having a look they decided that the rear valve cover gasket was leaking. Whatever was leaking was leaving a small puddle of oil at the top of the engine and underway it would migrate down the engine and onto the back of the bike. They changed the valve cover gasket and oil pressure sensor.

I gave it a test drive and it is pretty much as before-oil pooling on the rear cylinder and the oil light coming on at idle. And as an added bonus it now surges pretty bad between 4-5000 RPM.

I am open for suggestions.

 

[krb1945]

Some of the surging could be...

caused by a vacuum hose or exhaust leak.

To resolve the oil leak you will have to get your high powered LED flashlight and follow the oil trail up from the bottom of the flow trail. You may find you have more than one leak source. You probably need to lay on the floor or driveway looking up through the maze of hoses, wires and fittings.

Just a thought it could be oil migrating from the crankcase via the breather tube on the left side up through the air box then leaking out of the box down the engine. So you'll want to check to see if the air box has a lot of oil in it. If you find oil in the box there are many posts on this subject with tips on solutions. If you can't find the parts required in your area pm me and I'll assist you.

I would imagine if you ask Scotty, Lamont or many others on this site they will give you some good tips where to look.// Ken

 

[NancysToy]

Seriously, the surging is probably an intake leak, check the throttle bodies and purge line and fittings. There is dye available to pinpoint the source of an oil leak, fluorescent and blacklight.....If all the seals and gaskets have been replaced already, were the engine castings inspected for cracks ? Could be a porous casting....Low oil pressure at idle is frequently a misaligned oil pump on v-twins I'm familiar with, or could be a substantial leak on the pressure side, maybe even internal, that's surfacing on your rear cylinder.

Sounds like your dealer and BRP need to have at it again.........

:agree: If your dealer is incapable of resolving it, they should replace your engine under warranty.

 

[Recluze]

Thanks for all of the suggestions:

I am quite certain it is not the air box-catch can installed and working. I do get a lot of milky looking oil in it. Comment on that if you will.

I am not going to ride a Harley trike. Not that I don't like Harley's. The wheel geometry on a trike of any kind is just not something I want to deal with. Beautiful though.

The surging may be an air intake leak. When they redid my engine they replaced my Honda exhaust gaskets with BRP exhaust gaskets. The Honda ones were working really good. That is easy for me to check.

Porous casing-Yikes. I hate to even think about that. Could they become porous over time? This bike did not always leak oil.

I know at least one source of the oil leak. It is pooling on the forward side of the rear cylinder up at the top. I can see a puddle of clean fresh oil there. From that spot it works its way down. Until that one is fixed it will be hard to track others, if there are others. I really don't know the source of this but they are few places it could come from this far to the top of the engine.

I have contacted Carlo by e mail. We will see what he has to offer. I will be in touch with my dealer on Tuesday when they reopen.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

 

[krb1945]

milky oil...

anywhere usually means there is water in the oil. But it might just be condensation in the catch can. Is your catch can plastic or glass? How does the oil in your oil tank look? If the oil in the oil tank is milky then your machine needs to return to the dealer. May be a head gasket leaking both oil and water./Ken

 

[Recluze]

My catch can is plastic. There is no discernable water in the oil reservoir but I will keep an eye on it.

The amount of stuff in this catch can is a bit unnerving. After 70 miles it is a third full. I would have to empty this thing out twice a day when I am out touring. The oil level is probably on the low side, or where everyone thinks it belongs at this point.

I am installing saddlebags and taking pictures of the oil leaks as I go along. I will post later.

 

[krb1945]

Most oil in our catch cans...

was about 1 teaspoon in 200 miles. I have since removed all three catch cans and now use a crank case filter tube to air box that has 200 mesh fuel screen and open cell filter foam. This modification lets the case breath normally but virtually eliminates the oil from migrating to the air box.

When you are getting that much oil in the can... which in my opinion is a considerable amount for 70 miles... I'd be talking to the dealer. Now this is just my opinion... there are members on this forum that are far more qualified to address what could be causing that much oil in the can.

The reason I asked about the glass or plastic catch can is... my past experience with tractor fuel bowls the glass bowls always seem to get more condensation than the plastic ones. /Ken

 

[boborgera]

milky oil

Check your coolant, if it's low and not leaking it's probably getting into
the oil though a bad head gasket. That will make milk.