Oil Catch Can Warranty issues..

[effgjamis]

Yes, I agree that I am getting a run around from the dealer. As soon as the service mgr put the mechanic on the phone, he was extremely defensive and sai he was a very busy man and din't have time to mess with my oil leak which was only caused by the "contraption" I put on. When I told him the drain plug was 1/2 turn loose, he told me he didn't believe me! He said he would never do that. He also told me that the crush washer not being compressed evenly all the way around was normal!

I couldn't believe I was being treated like this on the phone. He said he didn't have time to talk to me on the phone, that the leak was not his fault! Even though it was perfectly fine that morning when I toom it in, and then when I brought it home after HE worked on it, I had probably a good 3-4oz of oil on the garage floor.
Unbelievable! I would be curious to se what BRP had to say about the catch can being there.

I would write a letter, to BRP and Copy the dealer.
Explaining the issue, and perhaps pictures if possible.

 

[boborgera]

Good points about the possibility of blaming it on the owner if he tries to correct it, but it appears to be a lost cause, anyway. If the shop that did the faulty work will not stand behind it, you will have to pay someone else to make it right. You might file a complaint with the State, and you could even file in small claims court, but you will have a lot of agony and expense any way you cut it.

It is indeed possible the mechanic cross threaded the drain plug, although this is not easy with a large, coarse thread plug. It is more likely that he overtightened it and stripped the threads. That would explain the looseness, and it will also make it possible that the plug will never seal or tighten properly. Unfortunately, BRP does not make this engine with a separate sump plate, so the entire crankcase half would have to be replaced unless a Helicoil is available in the proper size. Mean repair any way you make it.

So sorry for your pain and suffering. Let us know how you make out.

I doubt he cross thereaded the drain plug, More than likey the crush washer was bad. If he did strip the plug it can be repaired with a self
thereading plug. [napa] Being left handed all my life i've striped a few
myself.:yikes:

 

[jabba11]

Yes, I agree that I am getting a run around from the dealer. As soon as the service mgr put the mechanic on the phone, he was extremely defensive and sai he was a very busy man and din't have time to mess with my oil leak which was only caused by the "contraption" I put on. When I told him the drain plug was 1/2 turn loose, he told me he didn't believe me! He said he would never do that. He also told me that the crush washer not being compressed evenly all the way around was normal!

I couldn't believe I was being treated like this on the phone. He said he didn't have time to talk to me on the phone, that the leak was not his fault! Even though it was perfectly fine that morning when I toom it in, and then when I brought it home after HE worked on it, I had probably a good 3-4oz of oil on the garage floor.
Unbelievable! I would be curious to se what BRP had to say about the catch can being there.

find a new dealer...period..let BRP know what happend.

 

[dabreitbach]

Get a new dealer! I'm getting one after mine tried to say that all my mods( which are all cosmetic) stretched my timing chain!:dontknow: There are alot of BONEHEADS out there.

 

[BajaRon]

The mechanic also told me that "most people don't understand this is a dry sump system" (So what? Doesn't have anything to do with the issue - Pure Smoke and Mirrors) and that by putting the catch can in, you change how the lubrication system is working on the spyder. (Absolute BULL PUCKIE! Unbelievable!) I explained to him the reason for the catch can, and that I had oil in the airbox. He told me this is normal! (Normal, maybe because many have had this problem. But it is still a problem and certainly not something BRP intended. More BULL PUCKIE!) When the geneal manager of the dealership got on the phone, he was completely backing up his staff. He told me that he didn't believe me when I told him that the plug was not tight, and I also told him about the crush washer not being evenly compressed all the way around. He told me there was nothing wrong with the crush washer! (Like he knows!) He said it can be used again, and I told him they should really be replaced each time, and he said he didn't know who told me that, but that was not correct!! I was trying very hard to remain calm and nice at this point. I said that I got the impression that their mechanics never do anything wrong, and his response was that his people are highly trained (Liars and Bull Puckie spreaders), and that we were going down a wrong road for a different topic. Of the three people I spoke with on the phone, none of them were appologetic or sympathetic in the very least! It was unbelievable. (They are trying to tell you they don't want your money, your business or the business of anyone you talk to in the future) I told the manager that I didn't want to argue with him, I just wanted the leak fixed that wasn't there the morning I took it in for the checkup and oil change. I fully intend on doing my own oil changes, but felt if they were doing the 3000 mile checkup, that they should do the oil change as well. (Sounds like you were the only one in the bunch that handled this properly) Maybe I shouldn't have.

I also found it interesting that they asked me if I had added any oil, because when they drained the oil out today, it was the exact same amount that they had put in. Ok...let's see here.......It leaked a pretty good amount onto my garage floor, and if they indee put a new filter in, there should be new oil in the filter which they couldn't have completely drained out, but yet the qty is exactly the same amount as what they added??? Does this make any sense to anyone?? (Sure, for several reasons. Oil is like blood, a little bit goes a long way. It doesn't take much oil to make a big spot on the garage floor. It will always look like a lot more than it really is.

This doesn't in any way mean you didn't have a big problem. But probably the amount that leaked out, though it looked like a lot, was not all that much.

Even a difference of 4 or 5 oz. is probably not going to be all that noticable on the dip stick. In short, there was no way they could accurately tell that the same amount of oil was still in the bike when you brought it back. More Smoke & Mirrors and Bull Puckie being spread.)

Why does it seem so hard to find good, competent dealers? I talked to a friend of mine up in Petosky who has owned a LOT of bikes, quads, snowmobiles, etc over the last 20+ years, and he experiences the same thing. He can't seem to find a dealer who cares about his work or the customer. (Times are hard, some dealers have decided to hire the cheapest labor they can find, hunker down and take a seige mentallity. Other dealers have decided the way to weather the storm is to provide the best customer service they can. Hopefully, you can find one in the latter category. Don't give up, they are out there!)

I am just very frustrated, and now I have to pay this dealer to have the original OEM hose put back on the airbox, to prove that the oil is leaking from the drain plug.

Don't pay them a DIME! Don't put the hose back on. It won't prove anything that they don't already know. Don't throw more money at that lying pack of rats. If you have to take a loss take it now and get out of there.

Do us all a favor and contact BRP. Let them know exactly what is going on. Tell them what the dealer/mechanic, whoever said. We can't do it because this is your issue. But you'll be doing it for all of us as well as for yourself.

Believe me, BRP is VERY interested in their dealers and the customer service they provide. They will know that all of this is a farce and a scam.

Really sorry to hear this. With all the real issues Spyders are having it is a shame that an authorized dealer takes a perfectly working Spyder, gives it an issue and then blames the owner.

Find a good dealer and you'll be much happier.

 

[BajaRon]

Get a new dealer! I'm getting one after mine tried to say that all my mods( which are all cosmetic) stretched my timing chain!:dontknow: There are alot of BONEHEADS out there.

Some dealers/mechanics think customers are idiots and will swallow whatever mushroom stimulant they shovel on them.

Some of this stuff is mind boggling. These anti-customer service dealers need to be flushed...

 

[Lamonster]

A catch can have been known to leak if there is enough pressure to force it past the filter or if the drain leaks. Did you see if that was leaking at all before taking it in?

Not sure about the plug or washer but in 42,000+ miles I have yet to change my washers on my bike and have yet to have a leak. I even changed Ron's oil and didn't realize till the next oil change that the washer had fell off pps: and he ran 5000+ miles with no washer at all and no leaks. :dontknow:

As far as it causing any other issues that would void a warranty I just don't see how unless it was plugged and there was no venting and you were blowing seals. You would blow gaskets and seals way before the plug would leak if it ever would.

 

[BajaRon]

There is a bit of confusion out there as to the "Crush Washer" issue.

The copper washer that comes on the Spyder -see below - (at least mine and Lamont's) is not a true crush washer (though it is called that even by those who know better in the industry because the misunderstanding is so wide spread it's easier to go with the flow than try to educate everyone).

What we have is a solid copper washer which is a flat or a banjo washer. It is not designed to (Nor does it) crush or deform when used properly. Because of this, as long as it is not burred or damaged, it can easily be reused many times without leakage.

I've changed my oil several times as has Lamont with no leakage. Like he said, I went from East Tennesse to California and back with no washer at all on the crankcase drain plug and not a drop of oil leaked out.

I could not find a good picture of a true crush washer. Lamont has one laying on his work bench, maybe he can get a pic of that.

A true crush washer (that would be used for our drain plugs) is actually 2 thin sheets of metal usually with some kind of asbestos type material sandwiched in-between. The metal part can be copper, steel or probably Aluminum for our purposes. Some even have a rubber center portion which helps to seal when crushed.

A true crush washer is designed specifically to be deformed, or crushed, when used. Because of this a true crush washer can seal only 1 time and must be replaced EVERY TIME!

BRP is going to say you have to replace the copper flat washer every time as a CYA approach. This covers them against any issues arising from reusing a damaged washer. But it really isn't necessary.

A good used copper flat washer will seal every bit as well as a new one.

My advise is to have 1 of each copper washer (the crank case takes a different washer than the resorvoir) and an O-Ring on hand. That way if any one of these are damaged you can still complete your oil change.

The O-Ring can be reused as well. Both Lamont and I are still using our original washers and O-Rings....but then we are both crazy too!

Sorry, got to go now, my wife is having a fit about something running out from under my Spyder and covering the garage floor... :roflblack:

 

[NancysToy]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

 

[BajaRon]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

Exactly. Thanks for putting it so clearly. You're a good man Scotty.

You can't blame BRP. They have to gear all recommendations to the lowest common denominator. They have no idea how much knowlegde/experience each owner has.

They know the mechanical minded and experienced owners will understand all of this but everyone can't be an expert or even experienced at everything.

 

[vendit]

Well, the dealer wants to take the catch can off, and put the stock hose back on. Then they will re-fill with oil, etc and se if the leak returns. What I saw was an unevenly compressed copper washer on the drain plug. I have to think that maybe the washer was either defective, or had some dirt or something in between the copper washer and the drain opening.

Of course, with the attitude that the mechanic has, even if he finds that HE did do something wrong, he isn't going to admit to it. He said he is highly trained and doesn't make mistakes like leaving th drain plug loose.

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions. It is much appreciated!!

 

[BajaRon]

Well, the dealer wants to take the catch can off, and put the stock hose back on. Then they will re-fill with oil, etc and se if the leak returns. What I saw was an unevenly compressed copper washer on the drain plug. I have to think that maybe the washer was either defective, or had some dirt or something in between the copper washer and the drain opening.

Of course, with the attitude that the mechanic has, even if he finds that HE did do something wrong, he isn't going to admit to it. He said he is highly trained and doesn't make mistakes like leaving th drain plug loose.

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions. It is much appreciated!!

If you are sure the oil was coming from the drain plug and not the catch can drain (and it appears that you are), I just can't believe this ridiculous approach.

It isn't the catch can, no way, no how. An apprentice mechanic would know this. I know I shouldn't bond with someone else's problem but it's like seeing someone abuse their dog, it still bothers me.

I can't believe they are going to charge you to do something that has no connection to the problem except that they may think this will cover their ineptitude.

It's your Spyder so it is important that you do what you think best. But in my humble opinion, the only thing that replacing the hose will do is cost you money and probably put oil in your air box (which is the reason for the catch can in the first place). About as much good as rotating the air in your tires or lubing you muffler bearing!

If they were honest they would just correct the drain plug issue and be done with it. Now they can say that it was the catch can causing the problem.

 

[brutus450]

They have to order thehose and clamps, so I won't know anything for a few days.

ORDER them? you can get that stuff at an autoparts store in 1 minute.

I really hope they make you happy and your spyder better. Nothin worse than a bad machanic. Best of luck - I am sure its a simple fix

 

[BajaRon]

ORDER them? you can get that stuff at an autoparts store in 1 minute.

I really hope they make you happy and your spyder better. Nothin worse than a bad machanic. Best of luck - I am sure its a simple fix

Very True! But these guys haven't done anything right yet so why expect it now? :yikes:

Besides, if the hose doesn't say BRP on it, it could cause the drain plug to leak again since it would be an "Aftermarket" modification! Can't have any of that!

Next the gas tank will spring a leak because you didn't use a BRP approved clamp on the vent hose!

I'm thinking brain damage, it's the only logical explination! :gaah:

Still, they're getting paid and that is the definintion of a "Professional".

 

[Studybaker Bob]

Catch can warranty issues

Another case of bad dealership, bad service manager, bad mechanic, don't deal with these people any further. Call customer service & speak with Carlo directly, explain the situation, ask him what he wants you to do. Turn problem dealership into BBB. Our first dealership was not good, we are working with Carlo & our 2nd dealership which is very good. Our early 2008 se5 Spyder is a hi-tech computerized electronic nightmare. We still love our Spyder & have confidence that Carlo & our new dealership will fix it for us.

 

[krb1945]

Good case for doing...

Your own oil change. Then you inspect everything and torque the plugs and bolts yourself. Then you know it is done right. And if by chance you don't know how... drop by my humble abode and I'll be happy to teach you. All you need is good inch pound and foot pound torque wrenches or we'll use just use my tools.

As you know Lamont has good instructions on how to do it.

 

[Putt-Putt]

Ron gives good advice in his post. Always inspect the washers and O-rings, and replace if damaged, scratched, torn, dented, etc. He is also correct about a true crush washer having a soft center and deforming when it is used. The copper washers are indeed banjo-type washers, as are the aluminum ones on some other bikes. They are made to be able to compress slightly, but not deform like a true crush washer. They are softer than the crankcase and drain plug for a reason, they may need to slightly conform to the mating surfaces. When this happens, you will see an indentation on the washer. To be perfectly safe at that point, replace the washer. Of course if you rode a Brit bike for years and a few slow drips don't bother you, don't worry about it. One other caution. In time, copper and aluminum washers work harden, so that they are no longer able to do their job well. They can be annealed to make them softer again, but they are so cheap that it is easier to replace them. I recommend replacing them every few oil changes, regardless, for that reason. If they were used on a high pressure system like the brakes, they should be replaced every single time.

Ron's analysis of BRP's "every time" requirement was right on the money. They also recommend that you replace their screws with the factory threadlocker each time. It's just the easiest way for them to assure you won't have an issue. It is much harder to explain the signs of failure and tech you how to inspect them properly, than it is to just tell you to replace them.

In total agreement.:agree: I use the same one Spyder and on my cars and trucks never have I had an oil leak. Most do not use a true crush washer.

 

[Firefly]

Seems unfortunate that they wouldn't fix such a minor problem. What would it take to simply pull the plug and clean up the issue and replace. If the can is causing an issue then they should simply prove this and make a recommendation.
I guess this is why I have never taken anything into a dealer not even for warranty work. Of course I never buy new so that would explain a lot also.

Fix it yourself and next time just try another dealer who has more experience.

:agree:

I would just ditch this dealer.

Pull the drain plug and find out what is going on for yourself. Clean it all up - put it back together with a new washer and RIDE. You have to decide what you really want out of this---- a fixed Spyder ---- or proving the dealer wrong?

If they can't handle a simple thing like this--- you don't want them doing anything else to your bike--- EVER.

Didn't you say you tightened it up the rest of the way? Is it still leaking?

 

[vendit]

:agree:

I would just ditch this dealer.

Pull the drain plug and find out what is going on for yourself. Clean it all up - put it back together with a new washer and RIDE. You have to decide what you really want out of this---- a fixed Spyder ---- or proving the dealer wrong?

If they can't handle a simple thing like this--- you don't want them doing anything else to your bike--- EVER.

Didn't you say you tightened it up the rest of the way? Is it still leaking?

Yup! I had to tighten the drain plug 1/2 turn to snug it up when it came back from the dealer. That solved the big oil leak, but after a couple hours I still get a few drops from right directly under the drain plug, and the plug surface is wet. I have dried off EVERY part I can get to around, over top and underneath the drain plug to make sure that there is no risidual oil from anywhere else leaking down. This is the only place I have oil dripping. And....it takes a couple hours after everything is wiped down, before I get a drip or two on a clean white rag.

I am convinced that the dealer will never admit them doing anything wrong. I admit that the oil catch can could have leaked and run down, but I checked all that out, and made sure I wiped everything down starting at the top and working my way down. They apparently haven't seen the catch can mod, and so right away "went off" on me about my "contraption" and they are convinced without looking any farther that this is the source of the problem. The catch can has been on for about 2400 miles and I haven't had a leak.

I am just frustrated at how the mechanic and General Manager were so defensive and mad on the phone. I couldn't get a word in edge wise, as they just went ballistic about some contraption I added, and how it is effecting my lubrication system, and how I just voided my warranty!!

I just can't believe it! What a very unproffesional group of people!!

I am in the service business, and you DO NOT treat customers in this matter!

I will keep everyone posted when I hear from the dealer.

 

[BajaRon]

I just can't believe it! What a very unproffesional group of people!!

I am in the service business, and you DO NOT treat customers in this matter!

I will keep everyone posted when I hear from the dealer.

I could see if the dealer had a prayer of a case with the Catch Can, they would want to make you aware of the negative effects of a defective or bad mod.

Even then they should be professional. They are supposed to be the Experts, after all.

I would really like to hear what BRP would say about all of this. Trouble is, I can see a "He said, She said" issue. I don't think the dealer is stupid enough to tell BRP what they told you.

Still, I'd like to know what BRP would say. Have you tried contacting their customer service/techs?